chebby
Well-known member
Rather than the 'I think this, I think that' approach, how about someone explain to us disbelievers how changing a mains cable makes a difference?
andyjm said:
That's the problem with you disbelievers . You always want things 'explained'. Theorists.
If you'd care to move your idle fat arses occasionally and actually try things ((I know, outrageous that) you might surprise yourself sometimes, never mind us.
Having said that I don't claim to hear differences in main cables but I have never really sat down and did a direct comparison on mine.
drummerman said:
The great thing about being a knowledgable tosser is I know I don't need to try it. *yahoo*
I think I will safely assume that the original topic/question I posted is no longer being discussed (at least with any useful or meaningful responce).
I have decided that I will be giving a cable a try. I am sceptical but I want to try and find out for my self. Worst case scenario I spend £60-100 initially, only to return the cable at the cost of postage. I will come back and let you all know in a few weeks what I think.
In the mean time, thanks to those that have tried to help me.
I have decided that I will be giving a cable a try. I am sceptical but I want to try and find out for my self. Worst case scenario I spend £60-100 initially, only to return the cable at the cost of postage. I will come back and let you all know in a few weeks what I think.
In the mean time, thanks to those that have tried to help me.
Al ears
Well-known member
Oldphrt said:
Which probably explains why you manage to spend so much time distributing 'knowledge' on this forum..
Al ears
Well-known member
chrisrock said:
Give it a try, it will cost you nothing or maybe return postage. Otherwise you may always be questioning why you didn't. I have explained why I changed my leads and it wasn't because I expected to hear any improvement as such just aesthetics really.
Al ears said:Oldphrt said:
Which probably explains why you manage to spend so much time distributing 'knowledge' on this forum..
Not that much time really. It is real knowledge though, no need for the inverted commas.
Al ears said:
You're right, how do you know there are no fairies in your garden unless you conduct a thorough search? Who knows, the Indian guy from the call centre in Mumbai might really be a Microsoft engineer.
chrisrock said:
Chris,
A long time ago, I designed equipment for a well known national broadcaster. At no stage did we fuss over mains cables except specifying suitable current carrying capability, and the usual safety and durability criterea.
The reason we didn't care is that the cable made no difference at all to the output of whatever it was we were designing. The bits that mattered with respect to the mains are the design of power supply, mains input filtering and routing of the cable within the device.
I have explained on this very forum a number of times the funadamentals of why mains cables don't matter, and I have yet to see a single explanation of why they do. The usual litany of 'trust your ears', 'my dog could tell the difference' 'why dont you try it' is trucked out without a single reasoned argument why a difference is possible.
So go ahead and try different cables, but if you detect any difference, it won't be due to the cable.
andyjm said:
That was a long time ago I take it. A bit like the HiFi stone age. So whilst we still use electricity it would be fair to say that the electronic environment doesn't nowadays look anything like then.
We have multiple things that can cause noise and interference to a far greater extent than 'in the good 'ole days. From switch mode supplies, WiFi etc.. You worried about fridges and kettles (we still have those) and Radio waves. Today's hifi designers not only have to take outside problems into consideration but often have to cope with interference and distortion such as jitter in all its different forms and created inside components.
Fair to say today's supply is much more under pressure than then. In addition we Hifi equipment parts that are more more sensitive again than a hundred years ago or whenever you designed equipment for the beeb.
It's nothing like then.
Still, like I said I don't claim to have personally 'tested' mains cables but I certainly could not say that the construction and shielding don't potentially make a difference.
You have probably been so long out of the fold that a modern hifi design studio dealing with all the 'digital' crap would seem like something from another planet.
And even if you are reasonably up to date on theoretical knowledge, you still have to deal with things which sometimes may be out of your control or so small in difference that even measurements can't give a conclusive hint at why something sounds just that little bit different.
Part of the problem with anything mains is that it probably affect people in different ways, intermittently, depending on location, their own close by environment and even time.
What makes a difference to one person may not work for you.
drummerman said:
I did have a long post explaining why you are incorrect, but it was rejected as spam. You probably prefer your voodoo fantasies in any case.
Andyjm - which broadcaster? My paternal grandfather started work for the BBC in Bristol in 1936 after he got out of the RAF (17 years starting in 1918, including 7 year tours in Iraq then the Northwest Frontier - or Afghanistan as its now called) where he had learned to use and to fix those new-fangled radio things) rising to some sort of Chief Engineer role, used to go up to London a lot to help out there too. Worked mostly in radio but also in television programs including (sadly) Rolf Harris, but also the Hartnell and Troughton era Doctor Whos - he said they made those up as they went along). He retired in 1968 and died in 1977 of pneumonia (primary) and knackered lungs due to the amount of asbestos the BBC used to use in "the good old days". He also did quite a bit of more nefarious stuff during and after WW2. He was important enough that all of the Board of Govenors of the bBC turned up for his funeral.
Drummerman - modern electronics run on DC, not AC. Your CD player has a transformer that steps the voltage down from 240 volts to the 5 and 3 volts needed for the electronics, then rectifiers and smooting circuits produce a "clean" steady DC signal. Digital stuff generally runs at two voltages, neither of them zero, representing the 1s and the 0s. A 0-volt reference provides a reference, but does not work the transistors and capacitors inside the chips. Most chips have some sort of band either side of the ideal, say, +1 volt for 0 and +5 volt for 1, to cope with manufacturing tolerances, cable losses, motherboard losses, etc. Even your power amps run pseudo-DC. The output voltage varies, of course, and will switch from +ve to -ve and back if you've got a push-pull amp, but it's not a full-on AC current like the mains. If you really think a 6 foot length of cable between the wall socket and your hifi will make any difference to the mains signal and noise on it, and thus on noise being transferred to the DC side of your stereo, please send an international money order or traveler's cheques for GBP1000 to yours truly and I'll happily put a fancy looking plug onto and a couple of big magnets round an old kettle cord and send it back to you. I'll even throw in a bottle of my famous patent speaker oil....
Drummerman - modern electronics run on DC, not AC. Your CD player has a transformer that steps the voltage down from 240 volts to the 5 and 3 volts needed for the electronics, then rectifiers and smooting circuits produce a "clean" steady DC signal. Digital stuff generally runs at two voltages, neither of them zero, representing the 1s and the 0s. A 0-volt reference provides a reference, but does not work the transistors and capacitors inside the chips. Most chips have some sort of band either side of the ideal, say, +1 volt for 0 and +5 volt for 1, to cope with manufacturing tolerances, cable losses, motherboard losses, etc. Even your power amps run pseudo-DC. The output voltage varies, of course, and will switch from +ve to -ve and back if you've got a push-pull amp, but it's not a full-on AC current like the mains. If you really think a 6 foot length of cable between the wall socket and your hifi will make any difference to the mains signal and noise on it, and thus on noise being transferred to the DC side of your stereo, please send an international money order or traveler's cheques for GBP1000 to yours truly and I'll happily put a fancy looking plug onto and a couple of big magnets round an old kettle cord and send it back to you. I'll even throw in a bottle of my famous patent speaker oil....
Benedict_Arnold said:
And yet, it's possible to hear clicks from fridges etc. through the speakers ... .
Oldphrt said:
Apparently, even the spam recognition software can tell that you are talking non-sense... Q.E.D. *dirol*
seemorebtts
Well-known member
I'm really enjoying this thread and I know people are getting a little upset but it's great talking about cables.one of my favourite subjects.i spent the last 15 year's listen to cables and enjoying every minute of it and I love the mystery behind it.thanks for making me happy
Al ears
Well-known member
seemorebtts said:
I love a good bit of positivity seemorebtts. I'll jump on board that *yahoo* *YAHOO* *YAHOO!* :YAHOO: :yahoo:
Anyhoo I'm going with a clearer Audio. Not exactly sure which one yet. Either the copper line alpha one with upgraded silver plug and end terminals or the standard copper line alpha. I'm not too sure if the upgraded options on the Alpha One will mean it's a custom design and negate the 60 day return policy so will contact them first.
Gazzip
Well-known member
chrisrock said:
They are really nice guys. I have always dealt with Darren and had no issue with the return and subsequent refund for an unwanted Silver Optimus AES cable. I actually have a couple of their Silverline Optimus S/PDIF digital cables in my current system. They are really nice although their braided shielding has tarnished quite badly over the past couple of years...
seemorebtts
Well-known member
anything you order is returnable and I would go the copper line alpha.the alpha one is ok it just adds a little shine on the music.Try and stick with gold connecters.if you can try the copper line alpha plus at £84 as I find this really will make a difference but as I said before it can be a bit brightchrisrock said:
Gazzip
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
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