Aftermarket/audiophile power cables. Surely they make a difference??

[DocG]

I normally stay clear of debates like these because we get the same old arguments from both sides which lead to 96 pages of replies that get ever so boring that we never find out what the outcome is (or do we even care by this point).

but I do have to say this, everytime someone asks a question on this forum regarding cables whether they be audio, video, mains etc, you pop up with the same copy and pasted reply saying that "it doesn't matter" or "all cables are the same" and now you add to that with your request that Timo provides "measurements and test conditions", why should he after all he said the even his wife noticed a difference between a standard cable and the £100 one he came back from his dealer, are you calling them both stupid because that's what it sounds like.

If you have nothing constructive (or new) to add to any post regarding cables then I suggest you go elsewhere, because to be frank your sarcastic replies are starting to get on my wick. *aggressive*

Don't get so defensive, Macdiddy.

Abacus clearly has an engineering background. So if someone states the difference was measurable, it's not sarcastic to ask for what has been measured and how.

To me Abacus' posts always come across as informative and balanced. And if he stops one reader from burning money on a magical mains cable, that's all good.

All IMO, obviously...

 

[DocG]

Don't know if they make a difference but my aftermarket mains cables sure look sexy .

I can't see my mains cables. They're tucked away in the back of a cabinet.

My speaker cables otoh look rather pretty; they're the only cables in sight in my set-up. (they are actually a really good fit with the floor, colourwise)

 

[seemorebtts]

Try placebophille

hi Andrew just looked at your pic I see you have one of my favourite Speaker's ever.have you put them on a cardboard box.what hifi are you running them with.sorry to take up the thread

 

[chrisrock]

Thanks. Some useful info for me to look at, especially as Clearer Audio also have a 60 day return policy.

The power cable is one of them items that I need to try to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[MajorFubar]

The companies rely on expectation bias making you hear a difference where none can ever possibly exist. It's a mains cable. Period. The 60 day money back guarantee is a confidence trick. All the lot are a bunch of sharlatans, skirting as they do around the periphery of what they are legally allowed to claim by UK law, as already explained by Abacus, above.

Russ Andrews has been taken to task by the Advertising Standards Authority so many times because of completely unsubstantiable claims for his products, they have him on speed-dial. He even sells the infamous £3,130 so-called optical disc accessory, and he can't tell you what it does in the advert because they'd wipe the floor with his ass. He's an absolute con merchant and confidence trickster who should be behind bars at Her Majesty's pleasure.

 

[drummerman]

The companies rely on expectation bias making you hear a difference where none can ever possibly exist. It's a mains cable. Period. The 60 day money back guarantee is a confidence trick. All the lot are a bunch of sharlatans, skirting as they do around the periphery of what they are legally allowed to claim by UK law, as already explained by Abacus, above.

Russ Andrews has been taken to task by the Advertising Standards Authority so many times because of completely unsubstantiable claims for his products, they have him on speed-dial. He even sells the infamous £3,130 so-called optical disc accessory, and he can't tell you what it does in the advert because they'd wipe the floor with his ass. He's an absolute con merchant and confidence trickster who should be behind bars at Her Majesty's pleasure.

Now we all know ...

 

[seemorebtts]

The companies rely on expectation bias making you hear a difference where none can ever possibly exist. It's a mains cable. Period. The 60 day money back guarantee is a confidence trick. All the lot are a bunch of sharlatans, skirting as they do around the periphery of what they are legally allowed to claim by UK law, as already explained by Abacus, above.

Russ Andrews has been taken to task by the Advertising Standards Authority so many times because of completely unsubstantiable claims for his products, they have him on speed-dial. He even sells the infamous £3,130 so-called optical disc accessory, and he can't tell you what it does in the advert because they'd wipe the floor with his ass. He's an absolute con merchant and confidence trickster who should be behind bars at Her Majesty's pleasure.

electric is a very important part of hifi.thats why companies spend alot of time getting the power supply right at a price of course.iv made alot of transformers at work for Arcam.its the blood for your hifi.

 

[MajorFubar]

electric is a very important part of hifi.thats why companies spend alot of time getting the power supply right at a price of course.iv made alot of transformers at work for Arcam.its the blood for your hifi.

Yeah I find without it my hifi goes quiet (lol). Providing a cable is of a sufficient guage to supply the required voltage and current to a piece of equipment, there's nothing else it needs to do.

Forget hifi, if mains cables made any difference beyond the obvious, think of what affect their differences could have on electrical equipment that really matters, like heart monitors, dialysis machines and life support systems. You could die because someone used the wrong mains cable, which made the machine operate incorrectly.

Con merchants and confidence tricksters. Should be eating porridge behind bars.

 

[drummerman]

electric is a very important part of hifi.thats why companies spend alot of time getting the power supply right at a price of course.iv made alot of transformers at work for Arcam.its the blood for your hifi.

Yeah I find without it my hifi goes quiet (lol). Providing a cable is of a sufficient guage to supply the required voltage and current to a piece of equipment, there's nothing else it needs to do.

Forget hifi, if mains cables made any difference beyond the obvious, think of what affect their differences could have on electrical equipment that really matters, like heart monitors, dialysis machines and life support systems. You could die because someone used the wrong mains cable, which made the machine operate incorrectly.

Con merchants and confidence tricksters. Should be eating porridge behind bars.

A very righteousness attitude. Again, someone trying to tell so many they are wrong and how to spend their money.

AVI clearly have done their job.

 

[gowiththeflow]

Con merchants and confidence tricksters. Should be eating porridge behind bars.

Porridge that would taste much better if eaten with a special and very expensive spoon, forged by vestal virgins under a full moon during a leap year.

 

[drummerman]

Con merchants and confidence tricksters. Should be eating porridge behind bars.

Porridge that would taste much better if eaten with a special and very expensive spoon, forged by vestal virgins under a full moon during a leap year.

Hilarious ...

 

[MajorFubar]

A very righteousness attitude. Again, someone trying to tell so many they are wrong and how to spend their money.

AVI clearly have done their job.

Don't start the old 'brainwashed by AVI' ********. It's so hackneyed. I don't know what their views are on cables and nor do I care. I don't even think I've visited the forum since soon after I bought the speakers.

Minute anyone spouts any degree of common sense round here they get labelled as self-righteous. No wonder this forum is dying.

Anyhow, I've put my point across. End of the thread for me. Nothing to be gained by labouring it.

 

[seemorebtts]

electric is a very important part of hifi.thats why companies spend alot of time getting the power supply right at a price of course.iv made alot of transformers at work for Arcam.its the blood for your hifi.

Yeah I find without it my hifi goes quiet (lol). Providing a cable is of a sufficient guage to supply the required voltage and current to a piece of equipment, there's nothing else it needs to do.

Forget hifi, if mains cables made any difference beyond the obvious, think of what affect their differences could have on electrical equipment that really matters, like heart monitors, dialysis machines and life support systems. You could die because someone used the wrong mains cable, which made the machine operate incorrectly.

Con merchants and confidence tricksters. Should be eating porridge behind bars.

I totally agree that the cable that you get with your hifi is sufficient and will do the job.but getting something a bit better can do a better job.i was just like you 3 years ago and I bought a cheap plug off eBay just to try and it totally change my system.i couldn't believe it.i listened all night changing from my old plug to the new.it made a massive difference.so I went from a £20 cable to a £1000. Know one brain washed me just thought I'd give it a go out of interest.one of the best upgrades I have.better than Speaker wire although it is important too.Ever since then I bought a stereo rack which I think is the most important upgrade to get

 

[drummerman]

A very righteousness attitude. Again, someone trying to tell so many they are wrong and how to spend their money.

AVI clearly have done their job.

Don't start the old 'brainwashed by AVI' ********. It's so hackneyed. I don't know what their views are on cables and nor do I care. I don't even think I've visited the forum since soon after I bought the speakers.

Minute anyone spouts any degree of common sense round here they get labelled as self-righteous. No wonder this forum is dying.

Anyhow, I've put my point across. End of the thread for me. Nothing to be gained by labouring it.

Like I said, self righteousness. You are the one with common sense of course.

Don't insult others. If YOU think it's all smoke, fair enough but don't get on your soap box and start spurting sxxt around about who should be jailed and so on.

Live and let live.

 

[Timo]

When I demo'ed my mains block with DC blocker, the dealer also gave me the "matching" power cable. I was sceptical whether an additional £100 was worthwhile. I compared this power cable with a box-standard one. The difference was pretty clear -- the expensive cable was the clear winner for me. Then a blind test with my wife: she instantly picked the expensive cable. Q.E.D. Needless to say that the cable stayed!

Did you find the cable alone made a difference, or was it when used together with the mains block that you found the difference?

The mains block with DC blocker is a different story...

Anyway, the mains block came without mains lead. So a power cable between wall socket and mains block was needed, and that is where we tested -- with measurable results. The "winner" was from Isotek.

Why don't you go to local dealers and ask for power cables for home demo?

Could you provide the measurements and test conditions you used, that way others can perform the same test to see if they can verify the results. (I am assuming that measurable means physical evidence, not subjective evidence without external influences removed)

Bill

Test conditions -- lounge, sofa and ears. Really easy, and then just listen to a few tracks you know very well. Your ears will tell you the difference. No need for a pseudo-scientific quantative research methodology. A qualitative research design is more than good enough in hifi, which is about enjoying music. What's the obsession with so-called scientific evidence in this hobby? I don't get it...

If someone in hifi cannot trust his ears -- well, that is very sad indeed...

Having said this, making my research design "more robust", I do appreciate my wife's ears when demo'ing. She has no interest in spending money on hifi (she much prefers spending monies on holidays!). So if she can "measure" difference and thinks more expensive gear sounds better, that's rock solid evidence I think...

Reading these "religious wars" over cables does make me wonder why some people feel so strongly. Maybe some here are just upset that their ears cannot hear difference??!! Or maybe their systems are not revealing enough to show a measurable difference??

 

[Timo]

[/quote]

Like I said, self righteousness. You are the one with common sense of course.

Don't insult others. If YOU think it's all smoke, fair enough but don't get on your soap box and start spurting sxxt around about who should be jailed and so on.

Live and let live.

[/quote]

EXACTLY Drummerman!! I for instance don't see the difference between "real" diamonds and those produced in labs; and I certailny don't see the point of spending a fortune on diamonds. Much much prefer spending a fortune on hifi... But still I am not running around and patronise anybody shopping diamonds at Tiffany. What's the point of doing it? Live and let live...

 

[insider9]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still wondering about the validity of this argument. I'm on the fence, never tried these cables.

If someone wanted to give a mains cable a try which one would make the biggest difference? Amp, source, dac?

I wouldn't mind making my own mind up. I would also not make a definitive judgement after trying whether it would work or not. After all we're all different and difference between our systems/rooms/senses could be so vast that when something works for one person it isn't guaranteed that it will work for someone else (and vice-versa).

 

[chrisrock]

[/quote]

Test conditions -- lounge, sofa and ears. Really easy, and then just listen to a few tracks you know very well. Your ears will tell you the difference. No need for a pseudo-scientific quantative research methodology. A qualitative research design is more than good enough in hifi, which is about enjoying music. What's the obsession with so-called scientific evidence in this hobby? I don't get it...

If someone in hifi cannot trust his ears -- well, that is very sad indeed...

Having said this, making my research design "more robust", I do appreciate my wife's ears when demo'ing. She has no interest in spending money on hifi (she much prefers spending monies on holidays!). So if she can "measure" difference and thinks more expensive gear sounds better, that's rock solid evidence I think...

Reading these "religious wars" over cables does make me wonder why some people feel so strongly. Maybe some here are just upset that their ears cannot hear difference??!! Or maybe their systems are not revealing enough to show a measurable difference??

[/quote]

Timo I am very much with you here. I do like to read reviews and get people's opinion but once I purchase an item it then all down to my very own ears. And if my wife can hear a difference with something then there usually is a difference as she couldn't really care a less.

 

[drummerman]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still wondering about the validity of this argument. I'm on the fence, never tried these cables.

If someone wanted to give a mains cable a try which one would make the biggest difference? Amp, source, dac?

I wouldn't mind making my own mind up. I would also not make a definitive judgement after trying whether it would work or not. After all we're all different and difference between our systems/rooms/senses could be so vast that when something works for one person it isn't guaranteed that it will work for someone else (and vice-versa).

Good on you.

To be honest I don't claim differences between my shielded after market mains cables and the cheap looking ones that come with equipment but I have never done a comparison.

They were not expensive and I figured I may just go the whole way instead of wondering if ... .

Finding out for yourself is the way, it needn't cost a fortune either.

 

[chrisrock]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still wondering about the validity of this argument. I'm on the fence, never tried these cables.

If someone wanted to give a mains cable a try which one would make the biggest difference? Amp, source, dac?

I wouldn't mind making my own mind up. I would also not make a definitive judgement after trying whether it would work or not. After all we're all different and difference between our systems/rooms/senses could be so vast that when something works for one person it isn't guaranteed that it will work for someone else (and vice-versa).

From what I have read the recommendation is to use the cable in your source 1st if you are only trying once cable.

 

[MajorFubar]

Don't insult others. If YOU think it's all smoke, fair enough but don't get on your soap box and start spurting sxxt around about who should be jailed and so on.

Live and let live.

Haven't insulted anyone but charlatans selling goods that can't possibly do what they claim. In any other industry charlatans are brought to task but in the hifi industry common sense is relegated to just an opinion and they seem to be able to claim whatever they like without consequence providing they don't annoy the ASA.

Contributed again only to make my point clear. Bye x

 

[gowiththeflow]

If it's any help to the OP (Chris), a friend of mine Is related to someone who works for a well known HiFi cable company.

He's cautiously happy to confirm it's all a complete scam.

Personally, I'd also be wary of shills who have vested interests in selling snake oil, posting on forums to relate their supposed wonderful experiences to the world ( for world read potential market).

z

 

[seemorebtts]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still wondering about the validity of this argument. I'm on the fence, never tried these cables.

If someone wanted to give a mains cable a try which one would make the biggest difference? Amp, source, dac?

I wouldn't mind making my own mind up. I would also not make a definitive judgement after trying whether it would work or not. After all we're all different and difference between our systems/rooms/senses could be so vast that when something works for one person it isn't guaranteed that it will work for someone else (and vice-versa).

I would put it in your amp but to be on the same level you need all components to have one.for your amp I would suggest the Clearer audio copper line £175 this is a great plug

 

[drummerman]

If it's any help to the OP (Chris), a friend of mine Is related to someone who works for a well known HiFi cable company.

He's cautiously happy to confirm it's all a complete scam.

Personally, I'd also be wary of shills who have vested interests in selling snake oil, posting on forums to relate their supposed wonderful experiences to the world ( for world read potential market).

z

Now we are getting the proof we needed.

Who is this person by name and what company does he/she work for?

If he, as per your comment, is part of a scam (definition: a dishonest scheme, a fraud) you are aiding an illegal doing and you could be part of it too.

So, give names/company so we can pass this on to the police. You can mail me over at PFM privately if you prefer.

Failing that I could report you for aiding and abetting 'an illegal activity'. Of course they would just laugh at me, in a similar manner I laugh at your comment.

 

[Timo]

Did you see it? TheSadManInHifi.com. Their most popular thread? "Cables don't make a difference!" It's a bl*** long thread. There is even somebody who says he know about this because somebody told him he heard from somebody else -- from the industry! Shock, shock -- the scam is coming to an end...

Well, don't be bothered; don't waste your time reading it. Just go to TrustYourOwnEars.Com, and enjoy the music. I sit here and enjoy Chopin's Nocturnes. And know that my after-market power cable and my Chord Epic Twin were money well spent. Lovely sound coming from my Naim and PMC 25.23. A great Sunday here -- and no space for sad men... *dance4*