After recently having my bluray and amp software brought bang up to date, and fingers crossed, all the little Arcam bugs sent packing,I had to do a factory reset. Instead of running the auto set up, I invested in a spl and did it all manually. The only thing puzzling me is where to set the crossover on the amp?? Many thanks for any advice.
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A little sub help....
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michael hoy
Well-known member
chudleighpaul said:
I think TrevD is asking where in the setup menu of the amp do you change the setting for the cross over.
No, Paul was thinking on the right line!! If set to 80hz on the amp, do I then need to set the sub at 80hz?? I've read set speaker sizes to small regardless of size and put crossover on sub to max, and then I'll read set to small only if sats are being used. When I used the auto setup, it set the speakers to small and the crossover to 40hz, but I find it sounds better when set to large fronts and small for surround. While I'm getting results on the trial and error front, I just want to make sure I'm getting the best from my sub, and wondered if there was a happy middle ground people set thier sub to before tweaking. Soso confused...........
Timbot
Well-known member
If it's set to 80Hz on the amp, set it as high as you want on the sub- it'll only get sent 80Hz or lower anyway. Most instructions (from what I can gather) suggest leaving the crossover on the sub at max and just setting it in the amp.
A little note of caution:
My amp only diverts the lower frequencies from the fronts to the sub if the front speakers are set to small. If they are set to large, only the LFE track comes from the sub. This may not be the case for all amps though! (Mine's the Sony STR DH800).
A little note of caution:
My amp only diverts the lower frequencies from the fronts to the sub if the front speakers are set to small. If they are set to large, only the LFE track comes from the sub. This may not be the case for all amps though! (Mine's the Sony STR DH800).
Timbot said:
Think this is right as a general rule for amps.
So........speakers set to small (regardless of their size), amp crossover set to 80Hz and sub crossover set to max.
Run your auto set up, confirm with a tape and SPL measurements
Have a listen and see what your ears tell you
If you want the ampt to dictate what the sub reproduces then set the sub either max crossover, or often they have switch so that it ignores its own crossover. It will then play whatever the amp sends to it.
As above may need to set speakers to small to ensure amp is respecting the crossover setting, (and smoe amps have crossover per speaker).
As well as just listening if you have a THX optimiser disk there is a frequency sweep, and you want it so that there isn't any obvious dip or rise in volume as the speakers hand over to the sub.
As above may need to set speakers to small to ensure amp is respecting the crossover setting, (and smoe amps have crossover per speaker).
As well as just listening if you have a THX optimiser disk there is a frequency sweep, and you want it so that there isn't any obvious dip or rise in volume as the speakers hand over to the sub.
Hi TrevD,
I would set the sub xover at a frequency just below (or there abouts) that your speakers come down to. Not sure of the Xover details but looking online I found this for you.
The bass-reflex XT4 tower has excellent low-frequency extension for system with such a slender cabinet and small drivers. There is a relatively small (compared to other floorstanding speakers) floor reflection-dip centered at 240 Hz, followed by an octave-wide depression centered at 2 kHz and gently falling response above 8 kHz. Directivity, or off-axis response, is essentially identical at any listening angle inside our ±30° listening window. Plugging one port cuts lower bass below 49 Hz, while plugging both ports raises the fall-off point to 51 Hz.
It would be a shame to have such nice front speakers capable of decent low end extension and not make use of them.
I would set the sub xover at a frequency just below (or there abouts) that your speakers come down to. Not sure of the Xover details but looking online I found this for you.
The bass-reflex XT4 tower has excellent low-frequency extension for system with such a slender cabinet and small drivers. There is a relatively small (compared to other floorstanding speakers) floor reflection-dip centered at 240 Hz, followed by an octave-wide depression centered at 2 kHz and gently falling response above 8 kHz. Directivity, or off-axis response, is essentially identical at any listening angle inside our ±30° listening window. Plugging one port cuts lower bass below 49 Hz, while plugging both ports raises the fall-off point to 51 Hz.
It would be a shame to have such nice front speakers capable of decent low end extension and not make use of them.
Timbot
Well-known member
I thought the general concensus was to get the sub to do the lower frequencies instead of the floor standers trying to plumb the depths. The floor standers will go down to 49Hz but probably not as well as the sub does. Also, there is a school of thought that if the sub does the lower frequencies, say below 80Hz, it frees up some load on the floorstanders giving better mid-range and treble as they're trying to cover less basses at the same time. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though!
Also, have you seen this? Chapter 3 is on the Sub.
http://www.whathifi.com/video/how-to-get-the-best-from-your-home-cinema
Also, have you seen this? Chapter 3 is on the Sub.
http://www.whathifi.com/video/how-to-get-the-best-from-your-home-cinema
Subwoofers deal with subfrequency bass (the clue is in the name) and there is little point in having great full range speakers and setting them to small. We might as well all have satellite speakers. The art is in setting the sub up so that is integrates into the system.
VULPESDUBBUS said:
Quite an interesting area, as I have posted before on here and on other forums.
The idea/consensus/etc of the 80Hz cross over is a starting point (unless your are THX based which is the recommended crossover)
The theory being is that you are directing LFE and frequencies below 80Hz to the sub ( the clue is in its name) as a specialist active speaker to support the main speakers ( not instead of) and take away a number of distortion issues that would otherwise be presented to the main speakers,at very low frequencies) giving them headroom to work effectively.
I used to have my set up set to Large at the Front and sub out to both the sub and the speakers, however change the Fronts to Small and the difference was quite dramatic in terms of listening "pleasure". The sub certainly fills out without detracting at all from the main speakers and all LFE sound effects are still place accurately.
I do recommend that you try out both, and also alter cross over frequencies in each set up say up/down by 10Hz or so and have a critical listen, it certainly works for me
It seems, for me, that the crossover set to 60hz and fronts set to large, is giving me the best results. Havn't had a great deal of time to keep tweaking as yet, so when I get a couple of free uninterupted hours, things may change again!! Thanks for all your help.
Timbot
Well-known member
Page E-42 of the Arcam AVR600 manual says:
"Crossover Freq – This is the frequency at which loudspeakers set as Small start to redirect bass signals to the Subwoofer or Large speakers in your system. Small speakers redirect bass to the subwoofer, if present. The exception is the Centre speaker which, if Small, redirects its bass to front left/right provided that they themselves are Large. This is done to help keep Centre bass directly in front of the listening position."
So... if your fronts are set to large, they won't hand over at all to the sub. The centre will hand over to the fronts. If you're using surrounds, they usually end up set as small (unless they too are floorstanders). The extra bass from the sub is, in that case, most probably from the rear surrounds (hope I'm not jumping to too many conclusions).
Your system may sound better with the speakers set to Large or Small. Depends on receiver, speakers, room accoustics etc (as well as how you like things to sound). What you suggest with having a play around sounds a good idea. Took me a while to get mine tweaked how I like it.
Just remember though... as Voppeldopelopolous said above, if you set them to small you may as well just bin them and buy a set of satelites instead anyway.
"Crossover Freq – This is the frequency at which loudspeakers set as Small start to redirect bass signals to the Subwoofer or Large speakers in your system. Small speakers redirect bass to the subwoofer, if present. The exception is the Centre speaker which, if Small, redirects its bass to front left/right provided that they themselves are Large. This is done to help keep Centre bass directly in front of the listening position."
So... if your fronts are set to large, they won't hand over at all to the sub. The centre will hand over to the fronts. If you're using surrounds, they usually end up set as small (unless they too are floorstanders). The extra bass from the sub is, in that case, most probably from the rear surrounds (hope I'm not jumping to too many conclusions).
Your system may sound better with the speakers set to Large or Small. Depends on receiver, speakers, room accoustics etc (as well as how you like things to sound). What you suggest with having a play around sounds a good idea. Took me a while to get mine tweaked how I like it.
Just remember though... as Voppeldopelopolous said above, if you set them to small you may as well just bin them and buy a set of satelites instead anyway.
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