10 pounds saved my speakers ( Long post warning

[emcc_3]

Well done on your perservance. I would have no where near the patience or skill to sort both those issues out.

 

[nopiano]

Not sure where £7,500 comes from. They were £5,750 in 2014 in the UK, though I know the OP's models were bought abroad.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Get to know how speakers work.
An highly efficient speaker that costs over £20 000 could in theory sound great with a £1000 amp.

On the other hand a highly inefficient speaker costing £500 for example might only come alive with a highly powerful expensive amp.

My point is cost has nothing to do with it but the design of the speaker/amp in question.

Another example for you
A 6grand sugden will not drive a 3 grand ATC scm40 effectively as it has not enough power.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Cost has everything to do with it as how can an audiophile manufacturer sell a developed audiophile quality amp at a budget price but sell to a small market. Price? Real world means you can’t pair a £250 amp with£7000 speakers and expect to do them justice. Many people spend a whole lot more on amps than speakers to get best out of speakers. I’m sorry but if you pair amps of a few thousand with speakers up there in the thousands, you won’t get Justice out of them on many designs, there is no way getting round the real worldness of this as much as people would like to get budget for premium. It just doesn’t work that way.

 

[insider9]

Cost has everything to do with it as how can an audiophile manufacturer sell a developed audiophile quality amp at a budget price but sell to a small market. Price? Real world means you can’t pair a £250 amp with£7000 speakers and expect to do them justice. Many people spend a whole lot more on amps than speakers to get best out of speakers. I’m sorry but if you pair amps of a few thousand with speakers up there in the thousands, you won’t get Justice out of them on many designs, there is no way getting round the real worldness of this as much as people would like to get budget for premium. It just doesn’t work that way. 

I don't disagree in terms of amplifier - speaker matching. Price though has rarely anything to do with it.

But why would you have a need to post this on this very thread? What purpose does it serve?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Cost has everything to do with it as how can an audiophile manufacturer sell a developed audiophile quality amp at a budget price but sell to a small market. Price? Real world means you can’t pair a £250 amp with£7000 speakers and expect to do them justice. Many people spend a whole lot more on amps than speakers to get best out of speakers. I’m sorry but if you pair amps of a few thousand with speakers up there in the thousands, you won’t get Justice out of them on many designs, there is no way getting round the real worldness of this as much as people would like to get budget for premium. It just doesn’t work that way. 

Your reply shows me that what I've said went right over your head.
Look up speaker efficiency
Understand how things work
Cost for cost theory is highly flawed.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I always believe that price generally tends to reflect performance in hi Fi, I don’t doubt assertions around how things work, but it tends to be if a manufacturer spends pains getting the best out of something for a small market, ie the best stuff - it will cost. This is now market economics works. We are talking small but improved steps up in hi Fi. Also the quality of components and the design. We would like to spend £2k for an amp and think it can perform as well as amp components costing £20k, but it won’t if the more expensive stuff is really good. The price reflects the cost of everything that’s gone into it and the size of the market. So development, design, cost of components, size of market.

Do you really believe the opposite of this? A Porsche is better than a Ford Fiesta because of the development, fhe materials, the fact that less will sell so the price will be higher. Is this not true?

 

[Andrewjvt]

I always believe that price generally tends to reflect performance in hi Fi, I don’t doubt assertions around how things work, but it tends to be if a manufacturer spends pains getting the best out of something for a small market, ie  the best stuff - it will cost. This is now market economics works. We are talking small but improved steps up in hi Fi. Also the quality of components and the design. We would like to spend £2k for an amp and think it can perform as well as amp components costing £20k, but it won’t if the more expensive stuff is really good. The price reflects the cost of everything that’s gone into it and the size of the market. So development, design, cost of components, size of market. 

 Do you really believe the opposite of this? A Porsche is better than a Ford Fiesta because of the development, fhe materials, the fact that less will sell so the price will be higher. Is this not true?

We all agree that a Porsche is better than a ford.

We all agree that expensive hifi is normally better than cheap hifi.

But some efficient speakers that cost the earth can work with low power cheap amps.
Because they don't need all the current/power to sound their best.
That's all

That's why I say forget the cost and look at the specs/design then see what you need to make it work.

 

[stereoman]

Again, the next problem with passives as usual. Losing my audiofaith in passive speakers.

 

[newlash09]

Till yesterday afternoon, I was really wondering if I needed an amp change to better the sound of the PMC's. Everything was there except a slight loss of clarity. Like the sound was a bit muddy. So decided to check the polarity of the drivers, and dismantled all the drivers yesterday. And luckily found that I had mounted the left tweeter out of phase. After correcting it, iam finally in audio bliss. The inversion of the tweeter has removed the 2 complaints I had left with the speakers :
1. Vocals are now exactly as they should be . I found them to be in the background and not in the front before. This has been corrected now.

2. The boxiness to the sound that I mentioned in the past is completely gone.

Now I have absolutely no complaints with how it all sounds . And till yesterday I was not certain if I should sell the concept 40's. But now I can say, that the PMC's are in a different league and it is now a no contest between these two. I've never heard sound this good. And IAM sure that upgrading the amp will make things better. But as we speak , the parasound is at 10 o'clock position, and not breaking a sweat as it drives the PMC's clean and loud. I've tested some audiophile HD tracks in my room, and it goes down to 15 Hz super loud and clean. The loudest I have gone is 12 o'clock and it gets disco loud, and absolutely no distortion or muddiness. Everything stays clear, focused and locked in place. The parasound is absolutely not short of power for the time being. A better and more expensive amp will certainly better things, but Iam afraid the law of diminishing returns is already stepping in. In my humble opinion the same money spent on a better good quality source will give me better results. IAM thinking of either the Linn majik DS (95%) or Naim nd5xs (5%) or continue to use the wxc-50 as a digital renderer and add an external dac like schiit yggdrassil and Dirac live ddrc for room correction. I think it would cost less to implement this and will give me better sonic gains.

Secondly, when I dismantled all the drivers yesterday, I noticed that the drivers are mounted directly on the cabinet without any isolation gaskets. Is it normal for PMC speakers . And will I get better sound by adding a rubber gasket for better insulating the drivers.

Thirdly, iam presently using the supplied spikes on my hard tiled flooring. Iam not worried about flooring damage. But will the sound get better if I use rubber caps on the spikes.

Thanks

 

[Electro]

What an amazing story I am so pleased for you and you deserve the good result after all the effort you have put in, I doubt that I would have had your patience and perseverance.

Don't worry about your Parasound it's more that adequate to drive the PMC's properly and you would have to spend an awful lot more money on an amp for a relatively small improvement.

Just sit back and enjoy the fruits of your work. *i-m_so_happy*

 

[newlash09]

Sharing my progress here and getting such positive support from every one here makes me very happy

 

[insider9]

You've done really well Newlash09 given the somewhat challenging circumstances.

Since you're thinking about next steps slowly I'd suggest a very inexpensive upgrade which will change the way you think about hifi forever. I'd suggest buying a UMIK-1 measurement microphone.

This will lead you on a journey of discovery and help you better understand what's happening in your room. Help you maximise what you have and not make mistakes of trying to correct things that can't be correct in some ways. It really is one of, if not the best hifi purchase I've ever made. The best part it's $75 plus postage but you may he able to collect it from Hong Kong if you're passing by.

 

[newlash09]

Your suggestions and guidance has always been most apt. I did come across a site selling minidsp in India. However they are not selling the umik Mike so far. Will send them a email and see. Thanks again