What to understand before floorstanding speakers purchase?

[Gray]

I don’t believe in a break-in period.

Good for you 👍

 

[BenWatts]

A lot to read, a lot to consider, my 2cts:

The break-in period is more about our ears getting accustomed to the sound rather than changes in the equipment itself. Measurements can provide data, but if human ears cannot perceive a difference, I'll leave that aspect to the lords of marketing.

Considering the decision to invest 2.4k in speakers with previous listening session : the incredible, the smart, the generous designer : Alexandre Chamagne let you the possibility to try them a full month.
Secondly please let me quote Lemmy : « do you want to play the game ? » I would reply : « hell yeah at any time ».
I lost money when I was young by purchasing old cheap stuff. When someone buy a good product and if it does not pleases that guy, he can sell it shortly. Once again I have nothing bad to say against these speakers. It’s just a personal feeling, due to habits and a particular room.

Considering that, if after two or three weeks the sound still does not meet my expectations, I have to accept that the new equipment is not suitable for me. Initially, I was taken aback by the overwhelming sound—it was invasive, heavy, and overpowering in every way. I could not listen my music softly. I needed to pump up the volume.

The positioning of the speakers is different.
The volume is different.
The response varies from vinyl records to streaming.
The behavior is different compared to my previous speakers.
The sensitivity is different.
Everything is different!

One thing to consider, at first, even before the equipment and room setup: I suffer from tinnitus, a f***g relentless, high-pitched buzzing, especially when I'm tired. My doctor says I'm exhausted, having slept only a few hours each night over the past three months (personal challenges I have to face, hard work, negative trends ahead…).

It has now been half a week with significantly less work and anxiety. Medication is helping me getting decent amount of sleep and the situation is starting gradually improving.

I cannot make a decision for the moment due to a lack of rest. I listened to several brands like JMR, Apertura, and JMLab, sometimes far more expensive and they can compete easily. The last brand I cannot find in my neighborhood is a pair of Proac D20R. They are known being quite smooth.

I need a soft, smooth, and articulate sound this is why I selected my heed amp. Firstly, it was in my budget, and secondly it was smooth enough for my injured ears. Give me Klipsch sound, and it would be unbearable for me even with the sweetest amp available.

My latest trial yesterday evening was to listen barroque. I was feeling good and was at just a few movement to relax enough to fell asleep. I could not for my own reasons but, this trial is quite interesting to me.

 

[JDl]

A lot to read, a lot to consider, my 2cts:

The break-in period is more about our ears getting accustomed to the sound rather than changes in the equipment itself. Measurements can provide data, but if human ears cannot perceive a difference, I'll leave that aspect to the lords of marketing.

Considering the decision to invest 2.4k in speakers with previous listening session : the incredible, the smart, the generous designer : Alexandre Chamagne let you the possibility to try them a full month.
Secondly please let me quote Lemmy : « do you want to play the game ? » I would reply : « hell yeah at any time ».
I lost money when I was young by purchasing old cheap stuff. When someone buy a good product and if it does not pleases that guy, he can sell it shortly. Once again I have nothing bad to say against these speakers. It’s just a personal feeling, due to habits and a particular room.

Considering that, if after two or three weeks the sound still does not meet my expectations, I have to accept that the new equipment is not suitable for me. Initially, I was taken aback by the overwhelming sound—it was invasive, heavy, and overpowering in every way. I could not listen my music softly. I needed to pump up the volume.

The positioning of the speakers is different.
The volume is different.
The response varies from vinyl records to streaming.
The behavior is different compared to my previous speakers.
The sensitivity is different.
Everything is different!

One thing to consider, at first, even before the equipment and room setup: I suffer from tinnitus, a f***g relentless, high-pitched buzzing, especially when I'm tired. My doctor says I'm exhausted, having slept only a few hours each night over the past three months (personal challenges I have to face, hard work, negative trends ahead…).

It has now been half a week with significantly less work and anxiety. Medication is helping me getting decent amount of sleep and the situation is starting gradually improving.

I cannot make a decision for the moment due to a lack of rest. I listened to several brands like JMR, Apertura, and JMLab, sometimes far more expensive and they can compete easily. The last brand I cannot find in my neighborhood is a pair of Proac D20R. They are known being quite smooth.

I need a soft, smooth, and articulate sound this is why I selected my heed amp. Firstly, it was in my budget, and secondly it was smooth enough for my injured ears. Give me Klipsch sound, and it would be unbearable for me even with the sweetest amp available.

My latest trial yesterday evening was to listen barroque. I was feeling good and was at just a few movement to relax enough to fell asleep. I could not for my own reasons but, this trial is quite interesting to me.

Hello Ben, let me first offer my sympathy to you regarding your Tinnitus. I too suffer from relentless Tinnitus. At first in my twenties, it would come and go, but then one night in 1993, it started, increased in loudness, and never went away. That night is etched into my memory, as though it only happened yesterday.
The screeching in my head is usually worse in the morning, especially if I allow myself more than about 6 hours sleep. I was born in late '63.
I have noticed as well, and this might be relevant to you, that if I allow wax build up in my ears, it can become, almost unbearable but upon giving my ears a clean out, which I do myself now ( because my surgery doesn't do it any more) it really does improve it. I use one of the cheap kits.....a 'squirty bottle' with tube and screw in soft, silicone, tapered ends for slipping into the ear canal. Warm water, as hot as I can manage with some white vinegar, works well for me.
I too, like you went through a search for the right speakers with much disappointment along the way. I nearly always buy secondhand and, "blind" (which I know is not recommended practice) but I did eventually find what I feel to be as near to perfect as I will get, that seems to work really well in my listening (living) room.
That is bookshelf speakers on good quality stands, filled from bottom to top, with white, washed and baked river sand, which makes the stands very heavy and very stable. The stands sit on 4 screw in pan head bolts. That lifts them slightly off the carpeted, concrete floor and means I can level them. My floor isn't level. In addition, I use two active subwoofers, connected via the (high level) speaker terminals on the amplifier.
I don't want to suggest anything that might cause offense, or add to your financial burden, but I wonder if you've considered, getting hold of a CD player and using an additional collection of CDs, to augment your vinyl collection. CDs, in excellent condition are easily and cheaply available. Perhaps you might find that CDs of some of your favourite music, that you find intolerable on vinyl, could be a viable alternative.
Just a thought....
All the best to you and best of luck with your audio journey.
(John)

 

[BenWatts]

Good evening/night John,

Thank you for your message and your experience. I wish you the best living condition possible with tinnitus.
The best system I had the chance to listen to, are in auditoriums with a huge amount of money I cannot afford. The latest biggest emotion was a month or a month and a half with Kayzer speakers (35K I guess) a Vertere (20K) a incredible cartridge at about 15K and a double mono block from heed + phono stage... At a quite low volume.

I have to face the truth and get a pragmatic approach : does 2,4K affordable to me? Do these speakers are game changers compared to my AE 120 mkII? It's not night and day.

The main trouble is the hig pitched buzz strengthened when I listen loudly and do these speakers increase the painful effect? These speakers are excellent. I am not at home anymore this week, I cannot listen to them. Cannot wait to be on Monday to go back home and make up my mind. Things have to be set on Monday.

Wish you a super good health and safe ears.

 

[AEJim]

Hi again Ben, great to hear all your experiences trying to find the sound you're after - not so great the personal issues, as someone who only ever sleeps around 5hrs a night I can sympathise to an extent! I'm lucky in my line of work not to suffer from tinnitus though (touch wood!), a horrible condition for sure. 🙁

If you've enjoyed your AE120²'s and have a local AE stockist can I suggest giving the AE509's a try? They're in the ballpark for price and sound as though they may fit your needs - the MTM layout means the treble is naturally a little more restrained and the carbon dome is also very well behaved, they're a very smooth speaker, but also fun, powerful, dig deep for a relatively small 2-way and are pretty unfussy with placement. Hearing them at the Bristol Show, cranked up and filling the space outside Audioquest's room (who were using them on their system) reminded me how good they are!

I don't want to go all "salesman", just to me they tick a lot of your boxes - I love taking the "Pepsi Challenge" (for those old enough to remember that!) and would love to know how they compare to the others you've tried. I'm not sure where you're based but if we have a demo pair I could possibly see about getting them to you if you're interested? (I'm not sure if we have at the moment, it's been a while since I ventured into the warehouse part of the office!).

 

[JDl]

Good evening/night John,

Thank you for your message and your experience. I wish you the best living condition possible with tinnitus.
The best system I had the chance to listen to, are in auditoriums with a huge amount of money I cannot afford. The latest biggest emotion was a month or a month and a half with Kayzer speakers (35K I guess) a Vertere (20K) a incredible cartridge at about 15K and a double mono block from heed + phono stage... At a quite low volume.

I have to face the truth and get a pragmatic approach : does 2,4K affordable to me? Do these speakers are game changers compared to my AE 120 mkII? It's not night and day.

The main trouble is the hig pitched buzz strengthened when I listen loudly and do these speakers increase the painful effect? These speakers are excellent. I am not at home anymore this week, I cannot listen to them. Cannot wait to be on Monday to go back home and make up my mind. Things have to be set on Monday.

Wish you a super good health and safe ears.

Thanks. I think my hearing damage was caused by working with strimmers, chainsaws, pneumatic hammer drills, disc cutters, etc for prolonged periods, because most ear protectors don't work particularly well, and loud music at rave events in the late 80s. I can't listen to my music all that loud at home, it exacerbates the tinnitus.
I can't help but say that if you're listening to your music at high volume levels it's not going to help with your tinnitus, but I wish you all the best with yours too, friend.

 

[RoA]

I am sure you will come to the right conclusion. Fellow tinnitus sufferer here too. It is what it is.

Perhaps also consider s/h speakers if you really do need a change. They can often be obtained at vastly reduced cost from new. As stated previously, I had speakers that retail for £5k and ended up with a 25 year old speaker at a fraction of that which just suited perfectly (Now the room being the issue rather than speakers).

 

[Stuart83]

Happy belated Birthday Stuart!
View attachment 9677

Oh genuinely thanks "Jasonovich" 👍

I say that with a little warm smile 😊 as I age the card count dwindles as extended family succumb to age making me a tad melancholy, people don't seem to realise how little things like this make a difference, so I will say it-

"That really helped make my day"
🤝

 

[BenWatts]

...AE509's a try?

Hi Jim,
I have considered a lot the 509's before ordering the current ones. They are 3K€ on this side of the Channel. I can understand the gap due to saler margin, distribution, R&D, logistics... I cannot reach a 3K€ par of speakers.

... hearing damage was caused by working with strimmers, chainsaws, pneumatic hammer drills, disc cutters, etc for prolonged periods...

I am very sorry to read that. After some medical analysis, my worries would be linked to long music sessions and most of all : exhaustion. This is not serious as yours. I need rest.

@RoA : I sympathize for you tinnitus. Good courage and patience.
These Recital Audio speakers are incredibly well engineered and manufactured. My questioning is to be able to listen to magnesium & aluminum. Maybe I just cannot due to my Tinnitus (ribbon tweeters? Silk dome?)

 

[JDl]

Hi Jim,
I have considered a lot the 509's before ordering the current ones. They are 3K€ on this side of the Channel. I can understand the gap due to saler margin, distribution, R&D, logistics... I cannot reach a 3K€ par of speakers.




I am very sorry to read that. After some medical analysis, my worries would be linked to long music sessions and most of all : exhaustion. This is not serious as yours. I need rest.

@RoA : I sympathize for you tinnitus. Good courage and patience.
These Recital Audio speakers are incredibly well engineered and manufactured. My questioning is to be able to listen to magnesium & aluminum. Maybe I just cannot due to my Tinnitus (ribbon tweeters? Silk dome?)

And me yours and the same back. Courage, patience.
Pax Vobiscum.
I don't really know the answer to which tweeters are softer on the ears

 

[nopiano]

These Recital Audio speakers are incredibly well engineered and manufactured. My questioning is to be able to listen to magnesium & aluminum. Maybe I just cannot due to my Tinnitus (ribbon tweeters? Silk dome?)

I think it’s bit of myth to link the metallic cones and domes to harsh sounds. I’ve heard metal tweeters as sweet as can be, and harsh silk domes too.

It’s the same with cables. Silver isn’t bright and copper isn’t smooth, just because one is a mellower colour! But these things ar3 so often repeated it becomes almost folklore.

All that said, higher sensitivity speakers, such as your trial ones versus the more traditional Acoustic Energy models, tend to excel at quieter listening and be more vivid up loud. That’s either exciting and more like a live event, OR tiring and irritating in the long-term, depending on your preferences.

 

[Rui]

when buying each component from diferent brands will not match perfect for sure , about when changing to other speakers type,

I myself when in the 80´s tried more litle speakers as i was used to buig boxy speakers, i kinda notice a starnge sound that after a week i started to love them but the big box ones if good they do deliver a more real sound ,i remenber using some HPM-1100 and bought either than some mission 761 i later bought the tannoy´s SIXIES mk I , the 605 it felt like something is needed but after a while i really liked their sound,

the mission were litle but with the same design as big ones and with a far superior sound at 4ohms when not all 4ohms speakers are good ,this are some of the best ´till 70 watts, real ones ,

sometimes in catalogs we see 70+70 watts when in reality are 30+30 watts, the consumer should know how those watts are measured but made to the user error when thinking it owns a amplifier with a regular power,
i´ve seen it a lot in new amplififiers sold .

Also when i see as an example 150 watts speakers , if i connect them to a real 150 watts per channel amplifier , in a 1/4 of the volume scale they can´t handle more than it when 150 watts should sound loud but clean ,i´ve noticed that in B&W new speakers models or even in 90´s models from other brands also, in 89 bought against all reviews like as a total, "good to rock music" when having them at home they were amazing for any type of music mainly jazz,

the model was the AT-100 in 89 ,400watts at 4ohms, this are amazing good but not well tested ,it seems they were too good to be compared with others ,there were the Celestion/KEF concerto that were good sounding but it started the end of two great brands, worst built ever from this two brands,

MY opinion about litle speakers today is that the Elac vella are maybe the best, as the new B&W 600 series in towers are again great ,

there are the made too look old wharfedale also from Mission and other known brands,

if big boxy were so bad why today they are more expensive, if following that line of thought the DD67000 from JBL are bad speakers for the power they give why such a big box, but i do love them and they sound perfect like some 70´s models, L100 century model, as horizontal studio monitors are apearing now in the 2nd hand market,

i still put old CS speakers with big woofers and on top smaller ones but with great sound like late 70´s yamaha studio monitors, they together sound perfect with a good amplifier and enough power to fire them up, i have the SA-9800 or the 8800 II with less power but with the same type of speakers combination,

about equalizers i agree that can improve sound but if the user knows what those frequencies mean in reality or what translates to sound also not many equalizers with quality enough to say improve but only change,

in the past you couldn´t call yourself a audiophile in you didn´t had a equalizer , this in the 70´s the Phase Linear series two parametric equalizer could do wonders for older production records like late 40´s to early 60´s jazz records produced in the U.S., as an example the spotify sound if recorded it will appear a excessive 2khertz to 4 Khertz , to listen will improve guitars sound as in amplified ones with effects , the 500hertz it´s a bit excessive in streamed music sources also depends on the speakers,

the main reason why i still hear analog souces like records , they might have all the defects in the world but they do sound like real instruments being played, the perfection in digital goes far from real sound played, i have good cd players and none improved the cd sound quality compared to a 70´s turntable and cartridge being the most used the 207C with a EPS-207ED ,

only today not all needles with this designation are well fabricated , found some close to original sound some 5 years ago but almost or around 100€ priced and far superior to what people think and pay several times more for said to be good new cartridge, the turntable using this cartridge named SL-3310 from technics is great with a sa-608 integrated amplifier and mission 761, this to give an example that new not even 2.000€ will match this quality, and the 70´s components are getting rare and expensier than it used to be before mid 2017, it shows that a lot of people were getting 70´s components as they vanish from sites like ebay

 

[Rui]

And me yours and the same back. Courage, patience.
Pax Vobiscum.
I don't really know the answer to which tweeters are softer on the ears

the ones who can reproduce high´s the more far from the 1khertz frequency, as far it reproduces the high´s the less you feel them hurting our hearing also the range of sound can make them sound softer, like class A amplifiers , the real good ones or built in the 70´s

 

[Gez]

You simply cannot make a speaker choice based on published specifications alone. The specifications provided tell you nothing about how the speaker will sound. eg one speaker could be very neutral and another have a recessed treble etc. basic frequency specs as provided won't give you that information.

You absolutely MUST listen to any speakers you're thinking of purchasing. No debate. For that reason alone I would never buy any "direct from manufacturer" speaker if I couldn't hear them first (at the very least in a demo room), especially at the prices the manufacturers you're looking at are asking. That's way too much money to make a random purchase, in my opinion.

If there is absolutely no way to listen to any speaker before you purchase it, then purchase a model from a well known brand. At least that way you have some hope of being able to sell them if you don't like them. For example Monitor Audio do a model that is at the £2.5k price point and other slightly smaller and cheaper models too (look at their Silver 7G series).

 

[BiggaJ]

This thread and topic have been an interesting read for sure. The tinnitus aspect is a real shame however, as others have stated, you really need to take your amp and listen to each shortlisted speaker with music you know well and how it should sound to you.

The suggestion of getting some speakers delivered for a home trial is well worth it and this is what I did last time I was in the market for speakers. It worked a treat.

 

[nopiano]

This thread and topic have been an interesting read for sure. The tinnitus aspect is a real shame however, as others have stated, you really need to take your amp and listen to each shortlisted speaker with music you know well and how it should sound to you.

The suggestion of getting some speakers delivered for a home trial is well worth it and this is what I did last time I was in the market for speakers. It worked a treat.

That’s what he did, but it didn’t work a treat! Maybe you missed the relevant posts?

 

[Rui]

You simply cannot make a speaker choice based on published specifications alone. The specifications provided tell you nothing about how the speaker will sound. eg one speaker could be very neutral and another have a recessed treble etc. basic frequency specs as provided won't give you that information.

You absolutely MUST listen to any speakers you're thinking of purchasing. No debate. For that reason alone I would never buy any "direct from manufacturer" speaker if I couldn't hear them first (at the very least in a demo room), especially at the prices the manufacturers you're looking at are asking. That's way too much money to make a random purchase, in my opinion.

If there is absolutely no way to listen to any speaker before you purchase it, then purchase a model from a well known brand. At least that way you have some hope of being able to sell them if you don't like them. For example Monitor Audio do a model that is at the £2.5k price point and other slightly smaller and cheaper models too (look at their Silver 7G series).

AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!that is good

specifications do tell everything a speaker is , no more no less, you can say is that most of the users do not understand what is written in the specifications

 

[Al ears]

AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!that is good

specifications do tell everything a speaker is , no more no less, you can say is that most of the users do not understand what is written in the specifications

Speaker specification, like all specifications can help a great deal in creating a shortlist to audition.
You only need to understand a few fortunately and they are simple enough.
To say that most users do not understand them is nonsense.

 

[Rui]

Speaker specification, like all specifications can help a great deal in creating a shortlist to audition.
You only need to understand a few fortunately and they are simple enough.
To say that most users do not understand them is nonsense.

so you say everybody understands what´s written in the specifications and i was thinking that almost no one follows electricity or electronics , even i that started to buy speakers in the 80´s sometimes i get confused by the scale being used now or like the sensivety in db´s very low to what it used to be , saying are great speakers in the past if bellow 100db´s no worth buying them but than i understood by looking at the frequency response having a limited range that when they say great bass sound covers only 50 to 60 hertz but those come well defined and now see if the type of music you or i hear the bass when equalized uses more midlow frequencies well defined than just bass like untill 30 hertz at least. which is already hard to listen this to myself or feel only the vibration which is already felt in old furniture with ancient wooden framed glass

 

[Gez]

AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!that is good

specifications do tell everything a speaker is , no more no less, you can say is that most of the users do not understand what is written in the specifications

Absolutely they don't. At least the ones the OP provided don't. If you think they do, then please tell me what is the +/- dB frequency deviation from flat from the 1khz output level for any of the speakers, (except manufacturer 1) which has already provided that information)?

The most any of the speakers provide in terms of spec are bandwidth at a given -3dB point (usually this is from the 1khz measurement). Even that doesn't tell you how even the response is between those limits.

 

[Gez]

Speaker specification, like all specifications can help a great deal in creating a shortlist to audition

This is true.. to a point. It will very much depend on how detailed the specs are to start with (the ones the OP provided are about as useless as saying one speaker is red, the other is green).

There is also the question about were the measurements made, where they made in an anechoic chamber or "in room" (and if so what size/dimensions room)

EG.

Manufacturer1 states: bandwidth (±1 dB) : 40 Hz – 22 kHz, from which we can say it's a very flat measuring speaker between 40hz and 22khz, but for example what is it's output at 30hz? or 20hz?

Manufacturer2 states: 30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB) as it's bandwidth. But what is it's output level at 40hz( relative to 1khz)? is it higher or lower than that of Manufacturer1?

How quickly the bass drops of depends a great deal on the driver resonance frequency and Q as well as if it's a ported or sealed enclosure speaker. Same applies for Manufacturer 1's speaker. It's entirely possible that Manufacture 1's speaker will have notably more output at 20hz than manufacturer 2's speaker and there is no way to know from the specs provided.

 

[Al ears]

This is true.. to a point. It will very much depend on how detailed the specs are to start with (the ones the OP provided are about as useless as saying one speaker is red, the other is green).

There is also the question about were the measurements made, where they made in an anechoic chamber or "in room" (and if so what size/dimensions room)

EG.

Manufacturer1 states: bandwidth (±1 dB) : 40 Hz – 22 kHz, from which we can say it's a very flat measuring speaker between 40hz and 22khz, but for example what is it's output at 30hz? or 20hz?

Manufacturer2 states: 30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB) as it's bandwidth. But what is it's output level at 40hz( relative to 1khz)? is it higher or lower than that of Manufacturer1?

How quickly the bass drops of depends a great deal on the driver resonance frequency and Q as well as if it's a ported or sealed enclosure speaker. Same applies for Manufacturer 1's speaker. It's entirely possible that Manufacture 1's speaker will have notably more output at 20hz than manufacturer 2's speaker and there is no way to know from the specs provided.

You have a point but those aren't the sort of specs I was referring to when drawing up a shortlist.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Most properly been said already but get to your local HIFI dealer have some demo time with different speakers take some music with you that you know well .

I am sure the dealer will help you in getting where you need to get with a good choice of speaker for your needs .
Because everyone taste on here is different in what they expect out of a speaker its personal choice we can only recommend stuff .

 

[Shrek]

You have a point but those aren't the sort of specs I was referring to when drawing up a shortl

This is true.. to a point. It will very much depend on how detailed the specs are to start with (the ones the OP provided are about as useless as saying one speaker is red, the other is green).

There is also the question about were the measurements made, where they made in an anechoic chamber or "in room" (and if so what size/dimensions room)

EG.

Manufacturer1 states: bandwidth (±1 dB) : 40 Hz – 22 kHz, from which we can say it's a very flat measuring speaker between 40hz and 22khz, but for example what is it's output at 30hz? or 20hz?

Manufacturer2 states: 30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB) as it's bandwidth. But what is it's output level at 40hz( relative to 1khz)? is it higher or lower than that of Manufacturer1?

How quickly the bass drops of depends a great deal on the driver resonance frequency and Q as well as if it's a ported or sealed enclosure speaker. Same applies for Manufacturer 1's speaker. It's entirely possible that Manufacture 1's speaker will have notably more output at 20hz than manufacturer 2's speaker and there is no way to know from the specs provided.

Let your ears measure it not the charts or graphs .

 

[Rui]

Absolutely they don't. At least the ones the OP provided don't. If you think they do, then please tell me what is the +/- dB frequency deviation from flat from the 1khz output level for any of the speakers, (except manufacturer 1) which has already provided that information)?

The most any of the speakers provide in terms of spec are bandwidth at a given -3dB point (usually this is from the 1khz measurement). Even that doesn't tell you how even the response is between those limits.

i

Speaker specification, like all specifications can help a great deal in creating a shortlist to audition.
You only need to understand a few fortunately and they are simple enough.
To say that most users do not understand them is nonsense.

is nonsense after telling here that specifications show nothing, what are you talking about?
wasn´t refering to the same but sensivety level in db´s and frequency response of the speaker,

or limit in lows and high´s , and you refer 1khertz at -3db´s , you have no clue about what was discussed ,read again and fetch a manual of some speakers you might have, to understand it ,

in the past stores would show speakers and amplifiers conected in today´s world you have gigantic offer in diferent material but you can´t se it in stores,

if everyone knows what is written in the specifications, no one would buy a diferent sounding speakers than what he thought when ordering it ,

it´s so simple that it even doesn´t make sense in conecting speakers to an amplifier in a store, if all are so well informed but what was said here was that specifications show nothing ,

so i could say, i don´t know what you want to say with your coment or how is it related?scrambled eggs instead of a thinking brain, too many trips to the woods when a teenager?