A converted sceptic

[CnoEvil]

The best proof is your ears.

If you could rely on your senses, why would blind testing be necessary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind#Double-blind_trials

Just because some dogs bite, it doesn't mean every time you meet one, it will bite you.

 

[matthewpiano]

Jota 180

You'll have some double blind experiment links up your sleeve to back that up?

Yes I did , the differnce was so obvious that can not be mistaken . The Tellurium replaced other very good interconnect the Chord Chorus 2 that was excellent but too bright and smooth for my taste .

There should be some evidence of blind testing cable on t'internet. If there's such an obvious improvement in sound quality the obvious thing for companies to do would be to conduct a public double blind test, post the video and put the argument to bed once and for all. The companies selling the expensive cables would have incontrovertable evidence and people would then flock en masse to buy these cables.

Win-Win as they say.

But I've seen no such video.

I think it is hard to argue with that. Double blind test videos would be an easy sales tool if they worked in the manufacturer's favour...

 

[Broner]

The best proof is your ears.

If you could rely on your senses, why would blind testing be necessary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind#Double-blind_trials

Just because some dogs bite, it doesn't mean every time you meet one, it will bite you.

You're just evading the question Cno and the analogy is terrible.

It would be great if some of the people who believe cables make a difference, would bring something substantial to the table. If people just keep repeating that they trust their ears and that they know cables make a difference, without accounting for the proven fact that our senses can - and very often do - deceive us, one shouldn't be surprised that at some point they will be mocked.

 

[Covenanter]

The best proof is your ears.

If you could rely on your senses, why would blind testing be necessary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind#Double-blind_trials

Just because some dogs bite, it doesn't mean every time you meet one, it will bite you.

You're just evading the question Cno and the analogy is terrible.

It would be great if some of the people who believe cables make a difference, would bring something substantial to the table. If people just keep repeating that they trust their ears and that they know cables make a difference, without accounting for the proven fact that our senses can - and very often do - deceive us, one shouldn't be surprised that at some point they will be mocked.

+1

Chris

 

[hifikrazy]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

As a remedy for inferiority complex, I have to say it’s not actually a bad strategy to convince yourself of the above “truths”. I’m not materialistic and not saying that any of the above stuff really matters, but this kind of thinking is pure fantasy made up by people who feel the need to console themselves, and there seem to be quite a few hanging around this forum. Ironically they’re the ones accusing others of being delusional.

 

[TrevC]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

As a remedy for inferiority complex, I have to say it’s not actually a bad strategy to convince yourself of the above “truths”. I’m not materialistic and not saying that any of the above stuff really matters, but this kind of thinking is pure fantasy made up by people who feel the need to console themselves, and there seem to be quite a few hanging around this forum. Ironically they’re the ones accusing others of being delusional.

The above "truths" are strawmen arguments and not what was actually said at all.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

+2 broner & cno & trev (I think). So many analogies which are totally eronious, miss the point and make no contribution but avoid any useful comparison.

Despite the discovery of the Higgs, this debate rattles on.

 

[pauln]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

:rofl:

My 14 year old daughter can argue more logically than that.

 

[Richard Allen]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

:rofl:

My 14 year old daughter can argue more logically than that.

Oh dear. This old chestnut still goin on is it?. To qute yet another analogy Paul, it's a bit like casting jewels to living pork!!. :rofl: These threads really do get tiresome tho.

 

[hifikrazy]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

As a remedy for inferiority complex, I have to say it’s not actually a bad strategy to convince yourself of the above “truths”. I’m not materialistic and not saying that any of the above stuff really matters, but this kind of thinking is pure fantasy made up by people who feel the need to console themselves, and there seem to be quite a few hanging around this forum. Ironically they’re the ones accusing others of being delusional.

The above "truths" are strawmen arguments and not what was actually said at all.

The first two are directly credited to you actually.

"Expensive amplifiers can, and do, often use exactly the same parts as cheap ones because electronics is cheap. Those that do will invariable sound the same. "

"Of course the cheapie would probably be put in a cheap case and look rubbish, but that's beside the point. Much of the expensive stuff is cheaply made stuff dressed up"

 

[Vladimir]

 

[CnoEvil]

You're just evading the question Cno and the analogy is terrible.

It would be great if some of the people who believe cables make a difference, would bring something substantial to the table. If people just keep repeating that they trust their ears and that they know cables make a difference, without accounting for the proven fact that our senses can - and very often do - deceive us, one shouldn't be surprised that at some point they will be mocked.

It was a bit carp, but I'm back on my medication now.

The only thing that will convince a hardened sceptic, is if they hear it for themselves. So borrow a full set of TQ Black cables and report back on what you hear....it's certainly easier than expecting people to provide absolute proof.

 

[Vladimir]

You're just evading the question Cno and the analogy is terrible.

It would be great if some of the people who believe cables make a difference, would bring something substantial to the table. If people just keep repeating that they trust their ears and that they know cables make a difference, without accounting for the proven fact that our senses can - and very often do - deceive us, one shouldn't be surprised that at some point they will be mocked.

It was a bit carp, but I'm back on my medication now.

The only thing that will convince a hardened sceptic, is if they hear it for themselves. So borrow a full set of TQ Black cables and report back on what you hear....it's certainly easier than expecting people to provide absolute proof.

I heard it many time and I am a skeptic more than ever.

 

[CnoEvil]

I heard it many time and I am a skeptic more than ever.

Always listen with your heart, but buy with your head!

 

[Vladimir]

I heard it many time and I am a skeptic more than ever.

Always listen with your heart, but buy with your head!

Actually the heart is a muscle pumping blood. I much prefer using the amygdala to enjoy my music.

 

[Broner]

You're just evading the question Cno and the analogy is terrible.

It would be great if some of the people who believe cables make a difference, would bring something substantial to the table. If people just keep repeating that they trust their ears and that they know cables make a difference, without accounting for the proven fact that our senses can - and very often do - deceive us, one shouldn't be surprised that at some point they will be mocked.

It was a bit carp, but I'm back on my medication now.

The only thing that will convince a hardened sceptic, is if they hear it for themselves. So borrow a full set of TQ Black cables and report back on what you hear....it's certainly easier than expecting people to provide absolute proof.

I notice that you still evade question: how can you know that cables make an audible difference if you cannot exclude that your senses are fooling you?

 

[TrevC]

So a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter because they share some cheap electronic parts.

An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes.

A Jag is no different than a Fiesta because both take their passengers from point A to B.

A mansion in The Hamptons is no different than a house in a Bombay slum because they’re just a roof over the head.

As a remedy for inferiority complex, I have to say it’s not actually a bad strategy to convince yourself of the above “truths”. I’m not materialistic and not saying that any of the above stuff really matters, but this kind of thinking is pure fantasy made up by people who feel the need to console themselves, and there seem to be quite a few hanging around this forum. Ironically they’re the ones accusing others of being delusional.

The above "truths" are strawmen arguments and not what was actually said at all.

The first two are directly credited to you actually.

"Expensive amplifiers can, and do, often use exactly the same parts as cheap ones because electronics is cheap. Those that do will invariable sound the same. "

"Of course the cheapie would probably be put in a cheap case and look rubbish, but that's beside the point. Much of the expensive stuff is cheaply made stuff dressed up"

Nope. I didn't say "a high end 300 watt amp sounds no different than a cheap 30 watter" or "An expensive TV performs no better than a budget model because it’s the basically the same thing dressed in fancy clothes". Actually.

Misrepresenting what I said is as bad as tossing out insults, IMO.

 

[Covenanter]

 

[andyjm]

The only thing that will convince a hardened sceptic, is if they hear it for themselves. So borrow a full set of TQ Black cables and report back on what you hear....it's certainly easier than expecting people to provide absolute proof.

Cno, I hope you will be joining the proposed London based blind listening event. I will be happy to buy you a pint if you are able to detect different cables is a statistically meaningful way.

 

[matt49]

It seems blind testing results may not be viewed by the industry as good advertising copy.

Harman have an extensive blind testing programme, using state-of-the-art testing protocols. But I'm not aware of their making much of this in their advertising. Or maybe I just haven't seen it. Does anyone know different?

Matt

EDIT there are one or two references to their blind testing programme on the Harman website, but it's not at all prominent.

 

[ISAC69]

:read:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/tellurium-q-blackany-thoughts

 

[Vladimir]

Expensive and cheap amplifier DO NOT use the same electronic parts regarding quality and performance. A Pass or Krell amp running in Class A would burst into flames if it did so and many clones using cheaper equivalent parts do simply explode.

 

[Vladimir]

Expensive and cheap amplifier DO NOT use the same electronic parts regarding quality and performance. A Pass or Krell amp running in Class A would burst into flames if it did so and many clones using cheaper equivalent parts do simply explode.

However, here is the odd part. 3 matched CTS 450G split shaft 250K pots for fender Stratocaster guitars cost $17.99. Eric Clapton uses 18 dollar pots to make music.

Audiophiles need an ALPS RK50112 "attenuator" that costs $800 to reproduce what Clapton played.

Eric Clapton Stratocaster costs $1,600 new. Luxman L-507u that uses the gold volume pot costs $5,000.

 

[andyjm]

Expensive and cheap amplifier DO NOT use the same electronic parts regarding quality and performance. A Pass or Krell amp running in Class A would burst into flames if it did so and many clones using cheaper equivalent parts do simply explode.

Vladimir, I take it you are not in the electronic design business. While Krell and others may have some custom parts in their equipment (most likely transformers) if you think they have 'audiophile transistors' and 'audiophile logic gates' along with their 'audiophile memory' and 'audiophile processors' I am afraid that you are mistaken.

 

[TrevC]

Expensive and cheap amplifier DO NOT use the same electronic parts regarding quality and performance. A Pass or Krell amp running in Class A would burst into flames if it did so and many clones using cheaper equivalent parts do simply explode.

I did a search for cheap amp catches fire, but have drawn a blank. Do you have a link?