A change of mind....

[Thompsonuxb]

I bought a Rotel ra-1520 a few years ago and was disappointed with it.

To my ears it was not a great amp. Tried it in my set for a year.

Anyway ended up selling to my Nephew. Now due to his inability to keep up with agreed payments I have got it back.

Rather than end up on The Jeremy Kyle show it was the best solution.

Now I have been Swapping it in and out with my old amp the Yamaha ax-620 on and off and I have to admit it's improved dramatically since I owned it.

I disagreed with the WHF 5star review thinking it only worthy of a 3 but I have to admit I was wrong.

Not sure if it sounds better than my old amp which still works well but I cannot hide from the energy it brings my more. ...robust tunes.

The area it failed in most midrange texture/detail/timbre has genuinely improved.

I was so impressed I wrote a review on it at the AudioReview website.

I can only conclude 'burn in' is real. Currently have it running in my home will swap it back out next month.

Just thought I'd share.... :-D

 

[Vladimir]

Submitted by Thompson a Audio Enthusiast[/b]

Date Reviewed: [/b]July 2, 2015

Bottom Line: [/b]
The Rotel ra-1520, this is an interesting amp - it improves with time, alot of time. You'll need to be patient though very patient.
Out the box it looks lovely. I have the black model - its heavy and the fit is solid. All buttons/speaker terminals feel high quality, they feel built to last.

Out the box the amp sounds 'good'. The top end is clean with excellent edges to instruments, well separated and defined. The bass goes deep and kicks too for its power rating.
But it's the mid range which initially causes concern. Voices 'lacked' something, the upper and lower frequencies. It's odd because the amp excels with uptempo music but struggles with more nuanced, ambient tracks to deliver 'emotion'

As someone else said the amp lacked timbre with vocals male and female, harmonies, mid-range detail and bass texture (the ability to differentiate between say bongos and a foot drum)

But after many months in and out of my set the amp started to click. It actually starts to surprise with its performance. Causing me to just look over at it.
The midrange fills out complimenting the detailed top end and the bass. That missing detail in the midrange starts coming through the soundstage widens and deepens.

Vocals do gain timbre, backing vocals, harmonies and instruments do separate and become defined and gain 'weight'- but it takes ages for all this to come through. A surreal experience.

It does evolve from a good sounding amp into a sweet sounding one. But you do have to persevere with it.

Not an amp to be judged when new but judged over time imo. But it's a 5star amp for sound quality and will drive comparible speakers well.

 

[Native_bon]

Oh well, thats why never say never. *biggrin*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Oh well, thats why never say never. *biggrin*

I think this forum makes one impatient - instant gratification or its out.

I may have to give it back if he finds the appropriate funds but I have to admit I was surprised by the improvement.

 

[philpot1001]

does beg the question when you go to audition stuff, can you be sure it is run in itself?

 

[ID.]

In Japanese it's referred to as aging. Just like a fine wine there are all kinds of mysterious changes taking place and tannins precipitating out.

Some might suggest that the biggest changes are on your part. Pay them no heed. You've experienced it for yourself.

 

[Vladimir]

Imagine how that Audiolab you hated will sound today. Glorious.

 

[Paulq]

I have to say I am not a 'burn in' believer. I think that you just hear different things at different times and that hearing capability changes as you get older.

However, that isn't intended to stir up the old argument as some believe, some don't. Am just pleased you are now enjoying it as I have always thought it was a great amp. *good*

 

[Native_bon]

It seems to me people cn't hear anything any more.. Anything we hear these days is all in the mind. Yes sometimes it is, but not sure this is the case always. *stop*

 

[chebby]

It seems to me people cn't hear anything any more.. Anything we hear these days is all in the mind.

It's a sense, so of course it's all in the mind.

 

[Jota180]

Everything you hear is in the mind. Your ear/hearing system is effectively an analogue to digital converter and as no two humans are the same there's no way of knowing if we all hear things the same way or differently.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

In Japanese it's referred to as aging. Just like a fine wine there are all kinds of mysterious changes taking place and tannins precipitating out.?

Some might suggest that the biggest changes are on your part. Pay them no heed. You've experienced it for yourself. 

Ageing?

Is that me or the amp?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Imagine how that Audiolab you hated will sound today. Glorious.

I'm sure the one I had was faulty.....so maybe.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have to say I am not a 'burn in' believer.  I think that you just hear different things at different times and that hearing capability changes as you get older.

However, that isn't intended to stir up the old argument as some believe, some don't.  Am just pleased you are now enjoying it as I have always thought it was a great amp. *good*

I actually think it is a case of burn in......

I only put it back in to test it was not broken - like I said at times I'd just look over at it impressed by its performance .

After a year or so of playing (I'm sure it was driven quite hard too) the sound has opened up noticeably.

Lol.... I won't be expecting a Xmas card off my nephew this year.

 

[JamesMellor]

Hang on Thomo'

You had it for a year , hated it , then he had it for a year and only now it starts to sound good ?

I can believe in "burn in" over the first 20 to 40 mins , but two years to come on song , really ?

James

 

[Native_bon]

If every amp & speaker sounds the same to your ears, either you getting old or going deaf, its not always in the mind. *nea*

 

[Native_bon]

Hang on Thomo'

You had it for a year , hated it , then he had it for a year and only now it starts to sound good ?

I can believe in "burn in" over the first 20 to 40 mins , but two years to come on song , really ?

James

Really..? The burn in did not happen over two years... It just happened that the amp was away for two years, Burn in may have happened over the first few weeks. That sounds kind of dirty to me.*mosking*

 

[Vladimir]

What has greater drift over time, mathematically projected and engineered devices, or people's minds and preferences? Why does Thompson's change of mind have to be atributed to the amp changing and not him? I've changed my mind about amps many times and it never occured to me that the amp metamorphosed on the shelf. *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hang on Thomo'

You had it for a year , hated it , then he had it for a year and only now it starts to sound good ?

I can believe in "burn in" over the first 20 to 40 mins , but two years to come on song , really ?

James

More or less ill try and explain....

It all started when I decided to upgrade my entertainment.

Bought a New tv - already had a Sat/sub system (but the kids were small) ready to go.

The Yamaha ax-620 is a 5.1 amp. So decided to move it under the telly and thus buy a new amp for music.

After auditions a plenty and some home demos, decided on the Rotel.

Out the box it sounded fine but when compared to the Yamaha I found it lacking. Well then I decided to sell it so packed it away. But was reluctant to sell....just in case.

Anyway bought a Yamaha ra-1020 to go with the telly and put the 620 back on stereo duty.

Well over the first year switched between the 620 and the Rotel a few weeks at a time each time the Yamaha to my ears out performed it. The Yamaha eventually taking back its place. The Rotel a backup - asking price on eBay is still 350 to 450 pounds.

Well..... my nephew who was impressed with my set showed an interest in the amp so I agreed a price him being family I gave him a good price too but the child's got no respect taking over a year to pay me so a few months ago I got it back - he can have it back when he grows up a bit.... Gave him back the loose change he was paying me with.

But having it in the house I had to test it and here I am....almost put it straight on eBay.

In the time I had it it did not impress me but since getting it back it sounds alot more impressive. He played it - thankfully he looked after it too.

You'd have to hear it.

Personally I don't think 'burn in' occurs over a short period this particular amp took ages.

Thinking back so did the Yamaha. The Yamaha though was such a huge improvement over an old Technics I had at the time it never struck me how much the sound improved but it too took awhile. Then suddenly I was like.... Wow!

Been singing its praises for years...

 

[ID.]

What has greater drift over time, mathematically projected and engineered devices, or people's minds and preferences? Why does Thompson's change of mind have to be atributed to the amp changing and not him? I've changed my mind about amps many times and it never occured to me that the amp metamorphosed on the shelf. *scratch_one-s_head*

Enough with your Vulcan logic.

I've heard cables burn in too. Around 30 hours after installing new cable I was sitting, listening to music and I thought "wow, this sounds really good", so it was obviously the cable that made a difference

Don't try to convince me that correlation does not equal causation.

By the way, my Esoteric's manual quoted 300-500 hours for burn in.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

What has greater drift over time, mathematically projected and engineered devices, or people's minds and preferences? Why does Thompson's change of mind have to be atributed to the amp changing and not him? I've changed my mind about amps many times and it never occured to me that the amp metamorphosed on the shelf. *scratch_one-s_head*

Mathematical projected and engineered devices....

Why would any difference noticed by me not to down to the above....as you put it?

Is it ears cannot be trusted?

Or maybe the amp has improved. Not suggesting it's an intelligent device but..... But could it reach a mathematical operational peak?

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Andrewjvt]

You never had the cables the wrong way around? Ha

 

[Jota180]

What has greater drift over time, mathematically projected and engineered devices, or people's minds and preferences? Why does Thompson's change of mind have to be atributed to the amp changing and not him? I've changed my mind about amps many times and it never occured to me that the amp metamorphosed on the shelf. *scratch_one-s_head*

Mathematical projected and engineered devices....

Why would any difference noticed by me not to down to the above....as you put it?

Is it ears cannot be trusted?

Or maybe the amp has improved. Not suggesting it's an intelligent device but..... But could it reach a mathematical operational peak?

I wouldn't trust my own ears to determine an amp had changed over the course of two years, let alone anyone elses ears!

Your ears (hearing) will have changed over that time period. Degrading performance due to ageing, loud environments, nagging, the usual stuff but your auditory memory won't have improved.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

What has greater drift over time, mathematically projected and engineered devices, or people's minds and preferences? Why does Thompson's change of mind have to be atributed to the amp changing and not him? I've changed my mind about amps many times and it never occured to me that the amp metamorphosed on the shelf. *scratch_one-s_head*

Mathematical projected and engineered devices....

Why would any difference noticed by me not to down to the above....as you put it?

Is it ears cannot be trusted?

Or maybe the amp has improved. Not suggesting it's an intelligent device but..... But could it reach a mathematical operational peak?

I wouldn't trust my own ears to determine an amp had changed over the course of two years, let alone anyone elses ears!

Your ears (hearing) will have changed over that time period.  Degrading performance due to ageing, loud environments, nagging, the usual stuff but your auditory memory won't have improved.

That's the thing Jota, trust has nothing to do with it or anything actually.

Its not even a deliberate change of mind - it's more a subconscious realisation.

Im not or was not 'listening' for improvements I just noticed them.

Auditory memory again I was not comparing what the amp soundes like back then to now - just 'noticed' it sounded better.

When I say I'd just look over at the amp at times, it was actually in surprise and with raised eyebrows.