I have just bought a pair of 804 Diamonds. While they are an amazing upgrade from my previous 683s I can't help feeling that they aren't reaching their full potential due to the amp. I have a Rotel RB-991 2 channel 2x200w amp, with a Rotel RCD-951 through an Audiolab MDAC. I have been looking at the Classé Amps, given that they are often seen photographed paired up with B&Ws and are part of the same group now. Specifically the 2 channel CA-2300 and the Mono CA-M300s. Has anyone heard these pairings (i.e. B&W 804D & Classé) or does anyone have any experience they can share of other 804D/Amp pairing suggestions (e.g. Bryston)?
Which Amp for new B&W 804 Diamonds
- Thread starter Nimrod79
- Start date
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Recently heard the B&W 805 with Naim XS amp. Sounded terrific. I know one's a floorstander while the other is bookshelf but they should have similar tonal qualities.
EDIT - Sorry only just seen the 200 watts bit. You'll have to look in the Musical Fidelity M6i range. The figures are pretty similar but may deliver the wattage cleaner. It won't come cheap though. Whatever your short-list you'll need to dem.
EDIT - Sorry only just seen the 200 watts bit. You'll have to look in the Musical Fidelity M6i range. The figures are pretty similar but may deliver the wattage cleaner. It won't come cheap though. Whatever your short-list you'll need to dem.
Hi,
I am using a Unison Research Unico Primo fed from an Audiolab Mdac with B&W Matrix 800's and the sound is great.
I prefer it to Classe(of which I auditioned a no. of amps), even though the Classe are much more powerful.
I am using a Unison Research Unico Primo fed from an Audiolab Mdac with B&W Matrix 800's and the sound is great.
I prefer it to Classe(of which I auditioned a no. of amps), even though the Classe are much more powerful.
:doh:
Thanks Plastic Penguin. Can I ask why you suggest the integrated route as I am currently using the MDAC as a preamp and keeping the power separate?
plastic penguin said:
Thanks Plastic Penguin. Can I ask why you suggest the integrated route as I am currently using the MDAC as a preamp and keeping the power separate?
artist said:
Thanks artist. I have read that the 804Ds are power hungry so in theory should not reach their full potential with your Unison Eesearch suggestion? Happy to have your thoughts and to also understand why you recommend the integrated route, when I currently use the MDAC as a preamp and keep the power separate.
The Classé amp is a smooth and detailed performer. It's not the most exciting listen but is very easy to live with. Build quality on the units I've seen has been really good. We use a Bryston 4B SST2 in our main room. It's neutral, detailed and doesn't tend to hype up the music. They're different, but both will work well with your B&Ws. Both deserve a listen.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Nimrod79 said:
Yes, IMHO, when you get a certain price point with amplifiers (approx. 2-2.5k upwards) the gap between integrated and power amps is negligible. I've heard 10k systems made up of Caspian Monoblocs + pre with Wilson Benesch speakers, I've also heard hi-end Bryston integrated with the same speakers and same dealers, and can't really see why anyone would want to have extra boxes for very similar sound qualities.
This is my own interpretation....
Hope that helps.
Talk to any Classe dealer I would have thought - they usually carry B&W 800 series as well
One that comes to mind being Acoustica in Chester, which has a couple of Classe units available ex-dem when I last looked (a 2300 and a 3200). Geoff is the owner, I met him about 30 years ago when we both used to hang around Bespoke Audio in Stockport - good old days! Other than that I have no connection with them at all, just happened to be looking at their website the other day.
I do think you are right to find the right amp though. I had a pair of Nautilus 802's that I used to drive with a 200 watt Meridian amp. Sounded very nice but I always thought it was capable of much more.
Happy hunting
One that comes to mind being Acoustica in Chester, which has a couple of Classe units available ex-dem when I last looked (a 2300 and a 3200). Geoff is the owner, I met him about 30 years ago when we both used to hang around Bespoke Audio in Stockport - good old days! Other than that I have no connection with them at all, just happened to be looking at their website the other day.
I do think you are right to find the right amp though. I had a pair of Nautilus 802's that I used to drive with a 200 watt Meridian amp. Sounded very nice but I always thought it was capable of much more.
Happy hunting
MattSPL
Well-known member
Do you plan to listen at high volume levels?
The B&W's dip to 3ohm's, which might cause problems for some amps.
I had a pair of N803's paired with a Krell Kav300iL(rated to 4ohms), and it would get scalding hot and blew its fuses when playing very loud. This wouldn't be a problem if you don't intend to recreate the local concert hall in your living room, but to get the best from the B&W's, i'd look for an amp stable @ 2ohms. A Krell FPB200 would be a nice choice if going second hand.
The B&W's dip to 3ohm's, which might cause problems for some amps.
I had a pair of N803's paired with a Krell Kav300iL(rated to 4ohms), and it would get scalding hot and blew its fuses when playing very loud. This wouldn't be a problem if you don't intend to recreate the local concert hall in your living room, but to get the best from the B&W's, i'd look for an amp stable @ 2ohms. A Krell FPB200 would be a nice choice if going second hand.
Electro
Well-known member
You could try an Electrocompaniet AW250R power amp .
It is a very high current ( 100 amps ) 250 wpc stereo power amp that is stable down to 0.5 of an ohm and delivers 1100 w into 1 ohm .
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/poweramp/aw250r.html
http://www.luxurie.me/electrocompaniet-aw250r-two-channel-power-amplifier-each/
It retails for £4950 and will probably last you a lifetime , sounds pretty good too
The easiest way to describe the sound it produces is a combination of the best parts of Classé and Bryston plus a little extra .
You could also try the AW 180 or AW400 monoblocks .
It is a very high current ( 100 amps ) 250 wpc stereo power amp that is stable down to 0.5 of an ohm and delivers 1100 w into 1 ohm .
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/poweramp/aw250r.html
http://www.luxurie.me/electrocompaniet-aw250r-two-channel-power-amplifier-each/
It retails for £4950 and will probably last you a lifetime , sounds pretty good too
The easiest way to describe the sound it produces is a combination of the best parts of Classé and Bryston plus a little extra .
You could also try the AW 180 or AW400 monoblocks .
What is your budget and how is your room setup?
(Dont forget the room factor to get the most out those lovely speakers)
(Dont forget the room factor to get the most out those lovely speakers)
alchemist 1
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
Room is 5 x 3.5m and speakers and me roughly form an equilateral triangle about 3x3x3 , speakers are 15-20cm from wall, mounted on blue horizon spike shoes on a wooden floor - not sure if this is what you mean? And budget is anywhere from £2-5k - from some of the comments here, some users feel that Amp potential can reach a ceiling, so I am happy to be guided by some of your personal experiences. Thanks!
There is an interesting comparison here between a Classe pre/power and a cheap Sony AV amp into a pair of B&W 802Ds. Before you go blowing thousands...
[LINK REMOVED - house rules]
[LINK REMOVED - house rules]
B&W and Classe is an obvious starting point - however in regards to their being a ceiling for amplification I dont think there is - I asked this same question to Ket from WHF and his answer was clear - no it just keep on getting better the higher you go.
The recent review of the 802D loved Krell amplification so that is definately another company to consider - I think with B&W the more proper power the merrier - my old N805 wanted much more power than I could feed them at the time, they would have sounded special with the right gear and conditions, gutted didnt hear it before I sold them
By the room I did mean dimensions/ speaker placement which you have right by the sounds of the triangle etc but also some consideration for your rooms acoustics. You are planning on spending another potential £5k on amplification after already spending £4ish on speakers plus the rest you have spent - that well over £10k's worth of equipment.
With all this top gear - you want to hear the gear and not the room - maybe look at some of your budget going into some room treatment to get the very best from it
The recent review of the 802D loved Krell amplification so that is definately another company to consider - I think with B&W the more proper power the merrier - my old N805 wanted much more power than I could feed them at the time, they would have sounded special with the right gear and conditions, gutted didnt hear it before I sold them
By the room I did mean dimensions/ speaker placement which you have right by the sounds of the triangle etc but also some consideration for your rooms acoustics. You are planning on spending another potential £5k on amplification after already spending £4ish on speakers plus the rest you have spent - that well over £10k's worth of equipment.
With all this top gear - you want to hear the gear and not the room - maybe look at some of your budget going into some room treatment to get the very best from it
MattSPL
Well-known member
Craig M. said:
That's interesting. I wonder if they played any modern electronic music and tested bass control?
That to me looks like the perfect example of hearing the room not the kit.
Those speakers need much more room than that and they are right next to a window ..... Not good.
i wonder if there is any treatment in the room at all - makes £200 gear sound like £12000 in the same environment
Those speakers need much more room than that and they are right next to a window ..... Not good.
i wonder if there is any treatment in the room at all - makes £200 gear sound like £12000 in the same environment
MattSPL said:
Absolutely, and that's the main stay of my music collection. I have a serious issue at the moment with the Purity Ring album "Shrines", I can't stop playing it! Electronica through a system is the real test for me
MattSPL said:
Don't know. The result didn't suprise me too much, the amps were level matched and tested to make sure neither was clipping, under those conditions most amps sound the same when blind tested.
If I was in the op's position I'd base my decision on 2 things - does it have a good amount of dynamic headroom, does it look nice. Actually, there'd be a third consideration - are the Rotels in good nick, because if they were I'd probably just keep them.
I've dreamed of having 804s or 803s (really I'd like 801s but that will never happen), and my existing amplification is Cyrus Mono X300s.
No-one's mentioned these as an option - is there a big incompatibility problem of Cyrus with 800 series, as they go really well with my B&W CM8s?
(I like the studio monitor sound, by the way, as this is what musicians hear when they sign off the record as being "good to go")
No-one's mentioned these as an option - is there a big incompatibility problem of Cyrus with 800 series, as they go really well with my B&W CM8s?
(I like the studio monitor sound, by the way, as this is what musicians hear when they sign off the record as being "good to go")
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