WHFSV Reviews

[bigfish786]

Something i'd like to see in reviews of products when maybe a star or two have been deducted or denied is a reference to the "sound per pound" analogy that the mag uses. Especially when it comes to higher priced items. Let's just say a 2k CD player gets 3 stars, would that star rating improve if the price dropped? To give an idea of value, when judging it against other products?? It could be a five star product if targeted at a lesser price. I think this could be helpful when looking to demo equipment.

 

[BenLaw]

The mag can and has added stars when a price has reduced. You seem to be talking about an overall comparative score, which is never going to happen. WHF stars operate broadly as comparisons against similar products at similar price points. WHF will probably tell you they operate even more broadly as a way to help draw up an audition list, to then decide yourself.

 

[plastic penguin]

It's true what Ben has stated, and also, WHFI also state in the mags that any star ratings are purely a guide or a reference. This is so true when WHFI gave Usher S520 3 stars, whereas when I heard them with Arcam they were deeply impressive for the money, amongst others.

 

[unsleepable]

While upgrading my system, I've been surprised to find—and sometimes be annoyed by—the contrainsts that WHF reported in their reviews. While I may not always like the same components they like, and I think that the number of stars that they give to each component is conditioned by how much they like it in the end, I have learnt to take the descriptions given in their reviews more seriously.

 

[The_Lhc]

I think that the number of stars that they give to each component is conditioned by how much they like it in the end

Errm, what other reason would they have for awarding a star rating?

 

[davedotco]

I feel that WHF should drop the star rating system completely.

It is completely misleading and causes confusion among the hard of thinking.

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

It is a sad fact that people buy 5* product rather than what they actually want and need. Do away with the ratings entirely and let a dealer sell product by demonstration and on it's merit, not it's reviews.

 

[unsleepable]

I think that the number of stars that they give to each component is conditioned by how much they like it in the end

Errm, what other reason would they have for awarding a star rating?

Well, if WHF was completely subjective, and only about what they reviewer him- or herself liked, it wouldn't be any useful to all of us, would it?

There are many ways that reviews can possibly be conducted. I have worked presenting technology to advisory firms. And some aim at being more objective in their reviews—so even though they don't review all possible technologies, when a particular product is reviewed and receives a bad rating, it's better to stay away from it; and a product with technical impairments would not get a great review.

What I intend to say is that I am not sure that is the case with WHF, so that a product with not such a good review may still be great but simply did not appeal so much to the reviewer, and viceversa. I have found their technical descriptions to be useful to me, though; and accurate in regards to what I have found myself later—even if sometimes I did not completely understand the number of stars awarded. Surely just a matter of tastes, that makes it difficult to be more impartial with Hi-Fi sound.

 

[spiny norman]

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

Poor lambs! Then again, they could always get off their backsides, get out there and demonstrate to customers why they feel the products they stock are better than the ones with the shiny 5* badges on them. You know, like selling and all that.

I'd have a lot more respect for a retailer who got to know me and my system, then said 'Yes, I know that one got five stars, but I think for you and your system this would be a lot better; would you like to have a listen and I'll show you what I mean?', rather than just 'OK here's the box - just pop your card in the machine'

 

[davedotco]

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

Poor lambs! Then again, they could always get off their backsides, get out there and demonstrate to customers why they feel the products they stock are better than the ones with the shiny 5* badges on them. You know, like selling and all that.

Doesn't work, at least not on WHF readers.

They will think you are trying to con them and the fact that 'unkown' system is better than the one with all the 5* components is some sort of a fix.

They are not confident enough to buy the system that sounds best, they want validation so they buy the one the reviewer (whom they do not know and may never meet) thinks sounds best.

They do not trust the retailer, mostly because he doesn't endorse the highly reviewed product, despite the fact that he makes a better sound so they end up going to a mass market dealer, buy a mediocre system that does not sound very good, blame the cables or the room, even themselves as it can't possibly be the equipment, it's all got great reviews.

There are a few dealers who continue to go their own way, produce great sounding systems and make a living but they are now in the minority and most have abandoned the budget sector altogether.

This is a shame, a lot of budget systems are sold to 'first time buyers' and they are invariably the customers that need expert help the most.

 

[The_Lhc]

I feel that WHF should drop the star rating system completely.

It is completely misleading and causes confusion among the hard of thinking.

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

It is a sad fact that people buy 5* product rather than what they actually want and need. Do away with the ratings entirely and let a dealer sell product by demonstration and on it's merit, not it's reviews.

So you're suggesting the magazine shouldn't publish reviews at all? Why would anyone buy it?

 

[Andy Clough]

Let's just say a 2k CD player gets 3 stars, would that star rating improve if the price dropped? It could be a five star product if targeted at a lesser price.

Simple answer, yes it could. We have on quite a few occasions re-rated a product's star rating when the price has dropped significantly, taking it into a lower price band.

 

[davedotco]

I feel that WHF should drop the star rating system completely.

It is completely misleading and causes confusion among the hard of thinking.

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

It is a sad fact that people buy 5* product rather than what they actually want and need. Do away with the ratings entirely and let a dealer sell product by demonstration and on it's merit, not it's reviews.

So you're suggesting the magazine shouldn't publish reviews at all? Why would anyone buy it?

No.

I am suggesting that reviews should concentrate on the strengths of a particular product, what it is good at, not so good at and how it reacts in different systems. Ie practical advice on how to get the best from it.

The whole ratings/best buy model is two symplistic and in the end devisive. It does however sell magazines, so despite what I might wish for I am well aware that I am not going to get it.

Really just pointing out the limitations of that style of reportings and lamenting the effect it has on the market place. Just my views of course, now I am not a dealer and do not have to deal with it it does not bother me that much, just an interesting topic of conversation.

 

[AlCB]

Just as a tangent to the main point in this strand, it would also be good if more often we could be told that a product in a lower price range gives those at a higher price point a run for their money. I appreciate that group tests and class leaders against a given price range is invaluable and probably the only way to do it, but wouldn’t it be good if from time to time a class leader at one price point is put into a group test of contenders for the one above (not sure some manufacturers would think so). Whilst lower price products may not score well on build quality, sound quality might be a different kettle of fish in some cases!

 

[JamesMellor]

My two pennies ,

What do the stars really mean ? it's not really a percentage and its not really acurate , lets say a group test of 6 amps , 2 get 5 stars ( one a group winner ) 3 get 4 stars and 1 gets 3 stars .

To my mind the 3 that get 4 stars should really get 3 stars as they represent the average / middle ground , the group winner gets five and the other 5 star get 4 stars , the 3 star gets 2 stars as being below average . Then also award 1 or even 0 for amps below this average rating.

Read the review go listen to the stuff and interpret the comments with your own expreiance , a subjective review is always usefull as long as you can compare it to your own impressions and experiance .

One thing I did use to like about WHF in the 90's was it was always the same guy/s reviewing the stuff , Hi-Fi Choice I think always used changing panels ( who some how used to agree with me more than WHF ) and HIFi News RR used to qoute the reviewer

James

 

[professorhat]

One thing I did use to like about WHF in the 90's was it was always the same guy/s reviewing the stuff

That's the same now - there is a review team who agree as a consensus what the rating should be.

 

[JamesMellor]

I kinda thought it was still , but I wasn't sure , Thats a good thing to my mind , its a consent across all reviews

James

 

[lindsayt]

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

Poor lambs! Then again, they could always get off their backsides, get out there and demonstrate to customers why they feel the products they stock are better than the ones with the shiny 5* badges on them. You know, like selling and all that.

Doesn't work, at least not on WHF readers.

They will think you are trying to con them and the fact that 'unkown' system is better than the one with all the 5* components is some sort of a fix.

They are not confident enough to buy the system that sounds best, they want validation so they buy the one the reviewer (whom they do not know and may never meet) thinks sounds best.

They do not trust the retailer, mostly because he doesn't endorse the highly reviewed product, despite the fact that he makes a better sound so they end up going to a mass market dealer, buy a mediocre system that does not sound very good, blame the cables or the room, even themselves as it can't possibly be the equipment, it's all got great reviews.

There are a few dealers who continue to go their own way, produce great sounding systems and make a living but they are now in the minority and most have abandoned the budget sector altogether.

This is a shame, a lot of budget systems are sold to 'first time buyers' and they are invariably the customers that need expert help the most.

I'm a WHF reader.

Your description does not match my thought process nor behaviour at all.

 

[davedotco]

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

Poor lambs! Then again, they could always get off their backsides, get out there and demonstrate to customers why they feel the products they stock are better than the ones with the shiny 5* badges on them. You know, like selling and all that.

Doesn't work, at least not on WHF readers.

They will think you are trying to con them and the fact that 'unkown' system is better than the one with all the 5* components is some sort of a fix.

They are not confident enough to buy the system that sounds best, they want validation so they buy the one the reviewer (whom they do not know and may never meet) thinks sounds best.

They do not trust the retailer, mostly because he doesn't endorse the highly reviewed product, despite the fact that he makes a better sound so they end up going to a mass market dealer, buy a mediocre system that does not sound very good, blame the cables or the room, even themselves as it can't possibly be the equipment, it's all got great reviews.

There are a few dealers who continue to go their own way, produce great sounding systems and make a living but they are now in the minority and most have abandoned the budget sector altogether.

This is a shame, a lot of budget systems are sold to 'first time buyers' and they are invariably the customers that need expert help the most.

I'm a WHF reader.

Your description does not match my thought process nor behaviour at all.

Well, there's always one.......

Whilst we all look at the magazine I am slightly surprised that you classify yourself as a "WHF reader".

I must have missed the recent articles on 'Building your own constant directivity horn' and 'How to set up your EMT turntable for best performance'.

Seriously, you come across as an individual who very much has his own way of doing things and is more than competent in doing just that. You contributions are interesting and informative, most of the time anyway. (sorry if that sounds patronising, I'm actually trying to be complimentary)

Some years ago I was told by people inside Haymarket, that WHF has a relatively small core of regular readers but was the magazine of choice when people were looking to buy a system.

A lot of people would buy an issue, maybe two or three whilst doing their 'homework', then having made their purchase, stop buying it untill the next upgrade.

Those are the typical WHF readers I was talking about.

 

[Native_bon]

I feel that WHF should drop the star rating system completely.

It is completely misleading and causes confusion among the hard of thinking.

It also virtually forces retailers to stock and sell 5* product, when other product is better in terms of system matching or a customer's actual requirements.

It is a sad fact that people buy 5* product rather than what they actually want and need. Do away with the ratings entirely and let a dealer sell product by demonstration and on it's merit, not it's reviews.

Can't believe am saying this, but for once i agree with you.... This is the reason why so many people are leaving out so many good products. This may also be the reason why some companies are reluctant to have thier prodcuts reviewed.

HIFI SHOPS ARE DEFINITELY INFLUENCED BY 5* PRODUCTS.

 

[bigfish786]

I suppose people are getting what i meant. the reviews in general are just a summary of good and bad points and then a star rating given based on the value of the product, in its price comparable catagory. so, as a minor addition (this could help the 4+3 star products sell) make a suggestion that if the price of a certain 4 or 3 star product were reduced, either slightly or greatly, then this would gain it a star.

this should help draw attention to the products that are too often ignored, which could only be a good thing.

 

[Native_bon]

Whats the first thing you see when you go to any website or HIFI shop..? What hifi 5 star products. Its a shame that every standard is based on 5* products. The problem is some people may not like the characteristic sound what hifi is looking for in order to award 5* to a product. Then go to shop with mag in hand & money taken. plug & play at home with great disapiontment.

I have been to a HIFI shop were I have been told by every one what sounded right & I would be blown away by the sound of the amp & after listening it just left me dead cold. Bright, brash, & just shouty. You go into some HIFI shops & find out that you know more about HIFI than they do... Time & time again this just tells me get the hell out of this place before its too late.

 

[AlbaBrown]

I know other's have said it before, but in my opinion, the system that Hifi Choice used years ago - detailed reviews encompassing auditioning and brief technical analysis followed by a RECOMMENDED/HIGHLY RECOMMENDED badge.

They used to work on a monthly Supertest Structure - one month a supertest on Amplifiers across numerous price points, the next month it might be speakers - but it was all blind listening with the models/price revealed after review notes were gathered.

It gave much more scope for people to go out and audition equipment, plus it was always a pleasant surprise when budget models traded blows with more expensive gear!

Sadly the sheer amount of products What Hifi (claim?) to review every month, that structure of reviewing simply wouldn't be possible each month.

 

[davedotco]

I know other's have said it before, but in my opinion, the system that Hifi Choice used years ago - detailed reviews encompassing auditioning and brief technical analysis followed by a RECOMMENDED/HIGHLY RECOMMENDED badge.

They used to work on a monthly Supertest Structure - one month a supertest on Amplifiers across numerous price points, the next month it might be speakers - but it was all blind listening with the models/price revealed after review notes were gathered.

It gave much more scope for people to go out and audition equipment, plus it was always a pleasant surprise when budget models traded blows with more expensive gear!

Sadly the sheer amount of products What Hifi (claim?) to review every month, that structure of reviewing simply wouldn't be possible each month.

I think a lot of people are missing something very obvious....... :doh:

WHF is a magazine produced to a business model that is designed to sell magazines, not hi-fi.

It's primary function is to give the mainly novice buyers solutions that require little or no thought and it does that very well. It also has an effect on the marketplace but that is not their problem. I have described elsewhere the symbiotic relationship that exists between the magazines and the industry itself and in the main it all fits together very nicely.

More experienced listeners/buyers kind of understand all this but sometimes can not resist the hype, novice buyers tend to follow the recommendations as gospel and the retail industry is heavily geared up to take advantage of that. The result is that sales are heavily geared towards 5* product and if they don't sound that great to you, then there is something wrong with you.

I have often recommended that buyers should seek the advice of a good dealer and I still think the best approach is as follows.

Give the dealer a budget and tell him wahat you want in terms of functionality, give him an idea of your musical tastes and maybe some details about your room if you think that is important. That's it, nothing else, most definitely no 'shortlist', get him to play you a system or two that he thinks sound good at around the price you want to play. Go and listen......!

 

[Richard Allen]

Whats the first thing you see when you go to any website or HIFI shop..? What hifi 5 star products. Its a shame that every standard is based on 5* products.

And there you have it. 5* products. Hmph!.

I have seen people go into HiFi shops armed with a wad of cash and a copy of What HiFi and you should see the sales guy cringe guys, you really should.

Customer gets magazine out, says " I want that CDP, that Amp, those cables etc. Poor old salesman doesn't stand a chance. He knows from experience that this combo ain't gonna work but customer's having none of it. If What HiFi say it's 5* then it's gotta be right.

Needless to say, a few days later the customer is back at the shop wingeing that " It don't work". Hell!!. Even WHF say that you should audition the components irrespective of the star rating BEFORE you part with your dosh but they don't listen.

Reviewing in a padded cell and listening in a real world living room really are poles apart. Moral of story??, listen to dealer.

 

[davedotco]

Whats the first thing you see when you go to any website or HIFI shop..? What hifi 5 star products. Its a shame that every standard is based on 5* products.

And there you have it. 5* products. Hmph!.

I have seen people go into HiFi shops armed with a wad of cash and a copy of What HiFi and you should see the sales guy cringe guys, you really should.

Customer gets magazine out, says " I want that CDP, that Amp, those cables etc. Poor old salesman doesn't stand a chance. He knows from experience that this combo ain't gonna work but customer's having none of it. If What HiFi say it's 5* then it's gotta be right.

Needless to say, a few days later the customer is back at the shop wingeing that " It don't work". Hell!!. Even WHF say that you should audition the components irrespective of the star rating BEFORE you part with your dosh but they don't listen.

Reviewing in a padded cell and listening in a real world living room really are poles apart. Moral of story??, listen to dealer.

Hi Richard.

Interesting views that pretty much paralells my own, by the way that dealer you describe was me (in a previous life).......

Just a thought, how do you reconcile you exortation to 'listen to a dealer' with the fact that you sell the bulk of your product direct........ :?