WHFSV Reviews

[ifor]

There is no requirement for 'HiFi Separates', and hasn't been for quite a while.

Please don't try to tell me what I require!

 

[ifor]

The problem I had with auditions is finding dealers that stocked products you wanted to hear, some brands are very thin on the ground, (Totem, Harbeth, Creek and Dyns) even large brands like Kef . Also the shop may list the brand but then only stock a few speakers and not the ones you want to hear. Really outside London it was very hard to compare different products and then find a good dealer well?

The other problem is finding the time to do the auditions.

 

[MajorFubar]

Why bother with that category when most people want active loudspeakers to use with a streaming source ? (which work better anyway).

JC

Most people? Really?

I'd say 'most people' don't have a clue what active speakers are, let alone want them. Actives are as irrelevant as HiFi to 'most people'

+1. Most people think a HiFi is the £60 iPod dock they got from Argos or Currys. But if by 'people' you mean 'HiFi enthusiasts', then you're still wrong.

 

[jcbrum]

What planet are you guys from ? * (see the answer further down the page)

'Most people' use headphones. Have a look at the sales figures compared to legacy HiFi kit.

They use the headphones with their preferred sources, which are mobile phones, iPads, iPods, laptops, etc, because they don't own, and don't want, CD players, and record players, and racks of nerdy amps and tuners and cables, in their leisure rooms.

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

* (It's planet 1985) Phones, and laptops, and tablets, and streamers, and iPods, work better than CD players and record players ever did. Look at the sales figures and you can see why no-one who's got a serious business to run can sustain it on legacy hifi equipment sales.

JC

 

[professorhat]

Oh lord, we're into a semantics battle now...

 

[jcbrum]

p.s. The next thing to go in the 'dead end' bin is separate stand alone DACs. No one needs them anymore. Everything is coming with an excellent built in DAC nowadays. - JC

 

[jcbrum]

p.p.s. DSD is a dead end too.

 

[professorhat]

Having said that, last time I looked, headphones are not actives. In fact by what you're saying, the characteristic they share is you just plug active speakers into a source, similar to how you just plug headphones into a source. And by that logic they know what active speakers are. And yet, were you to ask them what active speakers were, they wouldn't have a clue what you were asking about.

Yup, that's the sort of logic that might get quite far in senior management. Maybe even a top position in government.

 

[John Duncan]

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

I think you'll find they're mostly powered passives.

 

[Al ears]

p.p.s. DSD is a dead end too.

Now, now! Nothing to see here, move along!

But you are wrong.

 

[Al ears]

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

I think you'll find they're mostly powered passives.

Pedant!

 

[Covenanter]

What planet are you guys from ? * (see the answer further down the page)

'Most people' use headphones. Have a look at the sales figures compared to legacy HiFi kit.

They use the headphones with their preferred sources, which are mobile phones, iPads, iPods, laptops, etc, because they don't own, and don't want, CD players, and record players, and racks of nerdy amps and tuners and cables, in their leisure rooms.

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

* (It's planet 1985) Phones, and laptops, and tablets, and streamers, and iPods, work better than CD players and record players ever did. Look at the sales figures and you can see why no-one who's got a serious business to run can sustain it on legacy hifi equipment sales.

JC

Putting to one side the exaggerations there is some truth in all this but I don't think it has anything to do with HiFi. HiFi has always been a minority interest and always will be because most people don't want to sit down and listen to music seriously. They want it as a background to their life not in the foreground. Ok the quality has improved because digital sources allow you to maintain the integrity of the signal but that is all.

Perversely there is a sector of the hifi world where having got to a position of having an accurate source, the digital source, now go back to an analogue source with its built in distortion. Strange world.

Chris

 

[ID.]

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

I think you'll find they're mostly powered passives.

Pedant!

Possibly a bit passive aggresive.

 

[manicm]

p.p.s. DSD is a dead end too.

Now, now! Nothing to see here, move along!

But you are wrong.

DSD is a dead-end. It's soup of the day. Just like other hi-res audio from HD Tracks you can't trust it to be mastered correctly either (true DSD recordings are a PATA to get right).

 

[Al ears]

Perhaps, if that is so, I'd be better off sticking with my vinyl and mp3's. :wave:

 

[MajorFubar]

What planet are you guys from ? * (see the answer further down the page)

'Most people' use headphones. Have a look at the sales figures compared to legacy HiFi kit.

They use the headphones with their preferred sources, which are mobile phones, iPads, iPods, laptops, etc, because they don't own, and don't want, CD players, and record players, and racks of nerdy amps and tuners and cables, in their leisure rooms.

They want loudspeakers which plug into their modern sources just like their headphones do. Hence they do know what 'actives' are.

No, they still don't know what actives are. Nor powered passives. Nor anything else. Nor do they care. They want to buy something that looks pretty and plays vaguely-recognisable audio. Same as in the 80s, they* bought Matsui twin-tape midi systems with plastic turntables and cheap ceramic cartridges, and thought that anyone who paid more than £100 for a 'stereo' was a blithering idiot. But bizarrely I think we probably agree on the state of the market and are just arguing over semantics.

*they = same type / demographic of consumer, if not literally the same people.

 

[hoopsontoast]

JC, I would suggest you may not be on the button when it comes to 'most people'

IME, most younger people do listen to music either through their £100 all-in-one from argos, their laptop or indeed using a mobile device and earphones.

Most of the rest of the market for 'hifi' is probably taken up by mini-systems or home theatre systems. Certainly when I worked in a hifi shop a few years back the Denon DM37 etc out-sold just about everything else (including headphones/earphones) by about 10:1.

I think most people dont really have an active interest in hifi per say, they want it to connect to their multiple digital sources (CD Player, DVD/Bluray, TV etc) and dont really care what form it takes, be that Active speakers with built in pre amp, seperates system, mini system or a soundbar. They tend to choose the best 'system' that suits their lifestyle/living arangements and budget.

Also, out of most of my friends/collegues in the age range of around 20-50, none of them would know the difference between an active or passive speaker apart from a few of my co-workers who do a lot of music gigs and knew what active PA speakers were, and tube amps from Guitar Amplifiers.

 

[Alec]

Or, would most who would be able to give an answer other than "no" to the question "do you know what an active speaker is?" just say "it's one that doesn't need to be plugged into an amp"? And if that were the case, would it matter? In a world where many retailers and manufacturers seem not to know the real definition anyway..?

I bet there are many on forums like this who dodn't know what it really meant until quite recently (I know one, in fact). Indeed, there may well** be folk here who still* don't know.

*No judgement is intended here.

** Read "almost certainly...".

 

[hoopsontoast]

Or, would most who would be able to give an answer other than "no" to the question "do you know what an active speaker is?" just say "it's one that doesn't need to be plugged into an amp"? And if that were the case, would it matter? In a world where many retailers and manufacturers seem not to know the real definition anyway..?

I bet there are many on forums like this who dodn't know what it really meant until quite recently (I know one, in fact). Indeed, there may well** be folk here who still* don't know.

*No judgement is intended here.

** Read "almost certainly...".

I dont think it really matters, 'most people' dont care for the technical details, they really just want something that A: looks nice, B: works reliably and C: is in budget.

I dont want to bring up an Active/Passive debate. FWIW I dont think anywhere specifically states that an 'Active' speaker HAS to utilise an Active crossover. Its not a 'standard' its just an application. Yes, I know the differences between 'Active' and 'Powered' etc etc.

 

[Alec]

Or, would most who would be able to give an answer other than "no" to the question "do you know what an active speaker is?" just say "it's one that doesn't need to be plugged into an amp"? And if that were the case, would it matter? In a world where many retailers and manufacturers seem not to know the real definition anyway..?

I bet there are many on forums like this who dodn't know what it really meant until quite recently (I know one, in fact). Indeed, there may well** be folk here who still* don't know.

*No judgement is intended here.

** Read "almost certainly...".

I dont think it really matters, 'most people' dont care for the technical details, they really just want something that A: looks nice, B: works reliably and C: is in budget.

I dont want to bring up an Active/Passive debate. FWIW I dont think anywhere specifically states that an 'Active' speaker HAS to utilise an Active crossover. Its not a 'standard' its just an application. Yes, I know the differences between 'Active' and 'Powered' etc etc.

I'm with you on your first paragraph. I'll leave the second alone, but I fear I may be the only one.

 

[MrReaper182]

I like the magazines rating system. The rating system is not their to tell you what product is best but what you should considering demoing before buying your next product. The magazine leave it up to you to decide what's best. If people can not see that then they are idiots.

 

[Andy Clough]

Well I'm not going to cal anyone on here an idiot, but you're right, the magazine/website is a buying guide. Nothing beats auditioning from a shortlist of products before you buy, which is what we recommend.

 

[DocG]

The star rating gives an 'instant' appreciation of the product.

But for me, the 'For' and 'Against' points are more useful when putting a short-list together. Not every aspect (good or bad) has the same weight for different people.

 

[the record spot]

That's quite a shift for you.

I hope you have chosen your dealers well. Good luck with that.

It's time to go to the dealers Dave. EB4 is gonna be around a grand so needs dealer support as do EB1 and 2. All the products will be available on the website at the same price as the retailers will sell it for but where there is a dealer near the customer, I will recommend going to them and refund deposit if paid.

As regards dealers, no chains. Independants only. The likes of Grahams in London and Musicraft in Derby. Scotland, EU and Rest of World will stay on the web.

Scotland, obviously being not yet an independent state - and hopefully not going to be come September if we have any sense - was too far away? Come on, there's enough independent dealers in Edinburgh and Glasgow that'd be interested in your gear Richard!

 

[shep1968]

Well I'm not going to cal anyone on here an idiot, but you're right, the magazine/website is a buying guide. Nothing beats auditioning from a shortlist of products before you buy, which is what we recommend.

I'm not a hifi guru like some of you are, i would even like to know the difference between powered and active, if someone can tell me what it is woithout starting a fight. I agree with Andy. I've used his recommendations from the magazine and from recommendations on here to build a shortlist of what i want to listen to. I dont have time for twenty demos, or to sift between a thousand combinations of speaker amp and cd player. Frm recommendation in WHF and from here i chose Naim, Audiolab and Roksan to listen to. Roksan imho is awful, or was with Kef LS50's, and the Naim was a better sound than the audiolab which was a shame as the audiolab had features that i would have liked. At the end of the day i went with speakers not mentioned by WHF but in my opinion sounded the best. I did the same with my first budget system and two TV's that i have purchased and have not regetted any of them so thanks to WHF for giving me recommendations.