What small factor high end speakers are there?

[davidf]

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

There's very little mention of this sort of thing in reviews either, so it's all well and good reading a great review that makes you want the speaker in question, but if the great review was produced with the speakers in the middle of the room, it hardly helps anyone in the real world. A review is an opinion, a taster - the rest of the research is up to the individual.

 

[BigH]

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

There's very little mention of this sort of thing in reviews either, so it's all well and good reading a great review that makes you want the speaker in question, but if the great review was produced with the speakers in the middle of the room, it hardly helps anyone in the real world. A review is an opinion, a taster - the rest of the research is up to the individual.

WHF room is specially treated, they rarely seem to mention positioning in reviews or many of the problems users encounter in real life living rooms. You could check the manufacturers recommendations. Here is about WHF testing: https://www.whathifi.com/news/about-us

 

[gasolin]

IMO. In the same way that I wouldn't advise buying on reviews alone, I also wouldn't, as has been said above, get too caught up on specs.

I have a strong belief, that the magic is in the midrange. Bass is of course important, but taste, room size, positioning and the type of music one listens to....are all big factors. If for example, you love what the baby Harbeths do but need more bass...that can be fixed with a small sub, like the Gemini from BK. Bass you can fix, treble and mids much less so.

I heard the Spendor SA1 in a small room and loved it so much I borrowed it for a home dem....it couldn't cope with the size of the room and sounded weedy, so it went back.

Everything that is being said, comes back to trying various options.

Wrong amp?

 

[CnoEvil]

Wrong amp?

I'm not sure what you mean.....but if you're referring to the SA1s, it was the same amp in both situations.

 

[gasolin]

I heard the Spendor SA1 in a small room and loved it so much I borrowed it for a home dem....it couldn't cope with the size of the room and sounded weedy, so it went back.

Maby you need an amp better suited for a big room

 

[davidf]

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

There's very little mention of this sort of thing in reviews either, so it's all well and good reading a great review that makes you want the speaker in question, but if the great review was produced with the speakers in the middle of the room, it hardly helps anyone in the real world. A review is an opinion, a taster - the rest of the research is up to the individual.

WHF room is specially treated, they rarely seem to mention positioning in reviews or many of the problems users encounter in real life living rooms. You could check the manufacturers recommendations. Here is about WHF testing: https://www.whathifi.com/news/about-us

If the room is heavily damped, it gives you a better idea of what the speaker is doing, but no one really has that type of room - my room is about as damped as I’ve ever heard, other than anechoic chambers. Most people have reflections here and there which makes a review in a treated room null and void as far as they’re concerned. If the general public decide to keep me afloat, I’m aiming to be able to provide different acoustics for auditioning purposes, which will make initial listening sessions far more relevant. I’m also aiming to be able to easily demonstrate in-ceiling and in-wall speakers too, which is something that’s hard to find - and many stores have zero facilities for this.

 

[BigH]

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

There's very little mention of this sort of thing in reviews either, so it's all well and good reading a great review that makes you want the speaker in question, but if the great review was produced with the speakers in the middle of the room, it hardly helps anyone in the real world. A review is an opinion, a taster - the rest of the research is up to the individual.

WHF room is specially treated, they rarely seem to mention positioning in reviews or many of the problems users encounter in real life living rooms. You could check the manufacturers recommendations. Here is about WHF testing: https://www.whathifi.com/news/about-us

If the room is heavily damped, it gives you a better idea of what the speaker is doing, but no one really has that type of room - my room is about as damped as I’ve ever heard, other than anechoic chambers. Most people have reflections here and there which makes a review in a treated room null and void as far as they’re concerned. If the general public decide to keep me afloat, I’m aiming to be able to provide different acoustics for auditioning purposes, which will make initial listening sessions far more relevant. I’m also aiming to be able to easily demonstrate in-ceiling and in-wall speakers too, which is something that’s hard to find - and many stores have zero facilities for this.

Yes, also some manufacturers design their speakers for most living rooms, so in a treated room they may sound dull, I think it was Acoustic Energy who said that.

 

[CnoEvil]

Maby you need an amp better suited for a big room

In this case, the problem was tiny speakers in a large room with an 11ft ceiling.

 

[davidf]

Yes, also some manufacturers design their speakers for most living rooms, so in a treated room they may sound dull, I think it was Acoustic Energy who said that.

Measurements will be taken in anechoic chambers or similar, as that’s the only real way for any meaningful and comparative specifications - listening tests will be in a normal room, but how many of those are representative of a normal living room? Very few, I’ll wager, either because they’re specially built, treated rooms, or any space made available at the factory.

If most manufacturers design for normal living rooms, why are so few speakers genuinely room friendly?!

 

[Green Bow]

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

There's very little mention of this sort of thing in reviews either, so it's all well and good reading a great review that makes you want the speaker in question, but if the great review was produced with the speakers in the middle of the room, it hardly helps anyone in the real world. A review is an opinion, a taster - the rest of the research is up to the individual.

Yeah, needing a bit more than a a metre out from a rear wall, I think means a dedicated listening room. Or not the kind of room where you're going to be moving around at all, near the speakers and their stands.

@rainsoothe, yeah, going down to only 75hz is not what I am looking for. I know that reviews of that speaker say, once you hear it, you don't mind the missing frequency range. However just going from speakers that went down to about 65Hz, to speakers which go down to 50Hz, was amazing. .. My Emit M10, the ones I mean that go down to 50Hz, do play lower, because it used a sine wave to test them. .. That overall bass increased quality and quantity, although quite minor, felt like it made a good difference to me. 65Hz to 50 hz is probaly about half an octave though. (Shame the other Harbeth that do go down to 50Hz, are too big for me. No worries though. If it's not meant to be, then so be it.)

Something like the Special Forty or PMC Twenty5.22, with 42Hz and 39Hz lower response respectively, would be cool. (Or would be cool if they could be right for me.)

-----------------------

By the way to any other readers, the new Rega Brio and Emit M10, if that's your budget, are excellent. They still surprise me every day.

 

[nopiano]

Re-reading what some pro-reviews are saying about the Dynaudio Special Forty, and positioning. They are saying about a metre from the rear wall for best sound. . However where I am, I don't have that much space behind my speaker position.

And that’s the important thing - you need to take into account the space YOU have to play with, not the space that’s demonstrated to you, which will usually be ideal for the speaker in the dealer’s demo room.

I have the Dynaudio Emit M10, and that's a rear bass port speaker. However there's not mention of it needing a lot of space, Or I think they said it needs a bit of space. The slightly bigger M20 does get comments in pro-reviews about needing a some space. With them saying the Special Forty needs a metre and a bit more; that's a lot.

I think the issue with needing space behind and around is reflections muddy the sound. It does make an argument for the PMC Twenty5.22

I had another look at the Harbeth last night. I think only one speaker, the largest home speaker, went under 50Hz and that went to 45Hz. That it was a huge speaker, though and way over the size that I can accomodate. The smallest Harbeth I think only goes down to 75Hz. If i did start thinking abot a 50Hz speaker, it would be a compromise. I have 50Hz now and want to go lower.

Anyway, just saying.

I think you are getting too bogged down with specs, best to go and hear some different speakers. I'm sure the Harbeth's do go down below 75Hz. In your room you probably don't want too much bass anyway. But Harbreth are not very sensitive so you may need fair bit of power to drive them properly, only 83db at 6 Ohms. If I'm correct you will need about 4x the power than a speaker that is 90DB @ 8 Ohms.

+1 on that sentiment!

Also, Green Bow, you’re falling into a trap of assuming that rear ports can’t be close to the wall but front ports can. You could always buy an ATC speaker and not worry about ports! Manufacturers like ATC and Harbeth tend to make realistic assessments of low frequency reproduction, often with decibel limits, rather than arbitrary figures decided by the marketing team. In any event, in room responses are entirely different.

As you seem keen on measurements, I recommend any speaker review by Martin Colloms, and a read of his reference book on loudspeaker design - about £80 new, but available from many libraries, or secondhand like my copy.

Here is an example:- http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/HIFI-CRITIC-SCM11-REVIEW-FULL.pdf

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I am curious about the:

PMC Twenty5.22

Dynaudio Special Forty.

Are there any other 'must contemplate' at this price or above. I thought about the ATC SMC19, but they are a touch too too big. I looked over Neat speakers, but the Iota and SX3 are going to struggle with bass. Bass is going to be an issue for smaller speakers. However some do better than others. The PMC and Dynaudio that I mentioned are supposed to do well. Their frequency range goes down low enough too.

Are there any that I have not come across, at this size with ultra quality, please anyone?

Think im a little late to the party, But from personal biased expericance i would give Revel a look if you can, M106 preformer designed by Kevin Voecks of former snell fame, The sound quality is top notch tacking on alot of the sound charteristics of snell (i know i was lucky enough to get a chance to compare). They can go very loud indeed as well with no hint of distress (if such things concern you). They're very easy going and will run on anything but give them somthing with plenty of grip and they will really shine. They where devloped on Mark Levinson amplification but i have mine on the end of naim and seem to suit it very well. In my opinion very few get close to these speakers and i auditioned a alot. I may be in the minority but i found PMC's very underwelming, but was more than likely my room, make sure you can get a home demo which im sure has been said futher up.