What rough price does Hi-Fi sound start at ?

[Snooker]

I know many of you on this forum have good expert knowledge when it comes to hi-fi, and I find MathewPiano's comments always very useful

At what rough price point would you say that hi-fi sound "starts", how about the Denon DM39 as an example or my system Denon ceol N8/Marantz MCR610 or Naim Unitqute, or none of these ?

 

[davedotco]

Depends somewhat on what you include, what sources primarily.

If you have a computer cabable of outputing CD or better data, then somewhere around £1500. Adding a cd player to this will increase the cost somewhat, closer to £2k.

If you plan to use vinyl, then expect to pay more, say £2.5-3k.

Bare in mind that i consider most systems at these prices not to be true high fidelity, but it can be done.

 

[CnoEvil]

This is quite subjective, but imo, probably a Rega system:

Apollo R (£548) + Brio R (£548) + RS1 (£438)

or

Linn Sneaky + Kef R100

 

[BigH]

This is quite subjective, but imo, probably a Rega system:

Apollo R (£548) + Brio R (£548) + RS1 (£438)

or

Linn Sneaky + Kef R100

Can think of far better systems than the Rega for similar money, certainly the speakers.

 

[lindsayt]

At Scalford earlier this year I exhibited a system made up of:

Denon C640 CD player. Bought for £15

Either Creek CAS4040 amp, bought new in 1983 for £99. Current value about £70

Or JBL 6400 amp. Bought for £26

Heybrook HB1 speakers. Bought new in 1983 for £127. They had rotted foams on the mid bass - making them worth £2 to £25. Which I fixed with a £20 kit.

So that was a £63 to £140 system.

Whilst I'd be the first to admit it wasn't the best system at Scalford by any means, it was still capable of producing an enjoyable and pleasant enough sound with an acceptable amount of fidelity.

 

[relocated]

If you look at actives then you get a lot more for your money and can get hifi for less than detailed above. It is also open to debate about what hifi is defined as, certainly there was a DIN spec that defined what hifi minimal standards were, DIN 45-500, but that was in the 60s.

 

[BigH]

Im sure you can put together a new system for around £700 that sounds OK. Marantz cdp and amp, numerous speakers to choose from. Not sure about these all in one systen like Marantz and Denon, which I think is what the OP is asking if they are hifi.

 

[CnoEvil]

@ BigH

Fair enough, but the question was about budget, so in my clumsy way, I was saying around £1500.

 

[BigH]

@ BigH

Fair enough, but the question was about budget, so in my clumsy way, I was saying around £1500.

yes i see. I think he is asking if Marantz 610 qualifies as hifi?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi-fi is a generic word that's used too often IMO. Hi-fi could be a s/hand mini system, costing £50 or it could start at 5k. It's whatever floats your boat (and budget).

 

[stevebrock]

This is quite subjective, but imo, probably a Rega system:

Apollo R (£548) + Brio R (£548) + RS1 (£438)

or

Linn Sneaky + Kef R100

Can think of far better systems than the Rega for similar money, certainly the speakers.

Enlighten us

 

[Vladimir]

Mid-Fi[/b]

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 50-150Wpc in 8 ohms and 80-90% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 80-90dB SPL (1m) at 3-5% THD, FR 50Hz-20kHz at -/+3dB.

Hi-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 150-600Wpc in 8 ohms and 90-95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 90-100dB SPL (1m) at 1-3% THD, FR 27Hz-20kHz at -/+2dB.

Hi-End

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification above 600Wpc in 8 ohms and no less than 95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with above 100dB SPL (1m) at no more than 1% THD, FR 20Hz-20kHz at -/+1dB.

Analogue sources have less resolution than 16bit, less dynamic headroom, higher distortion, noise, wow and flutter than digital. Therefore alocated as lo-fi.

</shields activated>

 

[chebby]

Mid-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 50-150Wpc in 8 ohms and 80-90% of that in 4 ohms.

So the 25wpc Sudgen A21SE or any class A integrated Accuphase amp would therefore be 'lo-fi'.

(And I think you meant 180-190% into 4 Ohms.)

 

[BigH]

This is quite subjective, but imo, probably a Rega system:

Apollo R (£548) + Brio R (£548) + RS1 (£438)

or

Linn Sneaky + Kef R100

Can think of far better systems than the Rega for similar money, certainly the speakers.

Enlighten us

I did hear that system, very disappointing, swapping the RS1s for B&W CM1s did improve matters somewhat but still not a great system IMO. Well the AVI 9RS are £1,250 add a cdp like Marantz 5005 for £200 would give a better system IMO.

 

[stevebrock]

Think you have made a boo boo there Vladimir !!!!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi-Fi[/b]

Amplification of min 150-600Wpc in 8 ohms and 90-95% of that in 4 ohms.

Hi-End[/b]

Amplification above 600Wpc in 8 ohms and no less than 95% of that in 4 ohms.

On the Amp end, I totally disagree....IME. It's not always about power (Watts).

 

[BigH]

Mid-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 50-150Wpc in 8 ohms and 80-90% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 80-90dB SPL (1m) at 3-5% THD, FR 50Hz-20kHz at -/+3dB.

Hi-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 150-600Wpc in 8 ohms and 90-95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 90-100dB SPL (1m) at 1-3% THD, FR 27Hz-20kHz at -/+2dB.

Hi-End

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification above 600Wpc in 8 ohms and no less than 95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with above 100dB SPL (1m) at no more than 1% THD, FR 20Hz-20kHz at -/+1dB.

Analogue sources have less resolution than 16bit, less dynamic headroom, higher distortion, noise, wow and flutter than digital. Therefore alocated as lo-fi.

</shields activated>

So your system is not hifi?

 

[drummerman]

Mid-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 50-150Wpc in 8 ohms and 80-90% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 80-90dB SPL (1m) at 3-5% THD, FR 50Hz-20kHz at -/+3dB.

Hi-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification of 150-600Wpc in 8 ohms and 90-95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with 90-100dB SPL (1m) at 1-3% THD, FR 27Hz-20kHz at -/+2dB.

Hi-End

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification above 600Wpc in 8 ohms and no less than 95% of that in 4 ohms.

Speakers with above 100dB SPL (1m) at no more than 1% THD, FR 20Hz-20kHz at -/+1dB.

Analogue sources have less resolution than 16bit, less dynamic headroom, higher distortion, noise, wow and flutter than digital. Therefore alocated as lo-fi.

</shields activated>

You do raise some interesting subjects but you also come up with some very doubtful opinions (which are normally stated as 'facts')

Still, it (normally) lightens the forum up and can make for some funny reading.

regards

 

[nopiano]

I would say well under £1,000 for a modest system. While I think some all-in-one system just about qualify, an obvious and popular choice would be the Marantz 6005 series amp and cdp, plus any number of speakers from about £150 a pair. Allowing for stands and cables you should still get change from a grand.

 

[CnoEvil]

You do raise some interesting subjects but you also come up with some very doubtful opinions (which are normally stated as 'facts')

Still, it (normally) lightens the forum up and can make for some funny reading.

Vlad gets bored on a Sunday, so you get BS and mischief in equal measure. *biggrin*

 

[drummerman]

You do raise some interesting subjects but you also come up with some very doubtful opinions (which are normally stated as 'facts')

Still, it (normally) lightens the forum up and can make for some funny reading.

Vlad gets bored on a Sunday, so you get BS and mischief in equal measure. *biggrin*

Thats fine with me

As to the original question on where hifi starts in monetary terms ... I think that is a very individual thing. Some happily live with a Denon micro which is a step up from a Bush all-in-one. I guess that's hifi to them (I once had one, Denon that is, for the best part of a year when I was really hardened-up and loved it). - Others listen to show systems that cost £50k and think some sound horrible, clearly its not hifi then ...

Who knows. Probably only you can decide that.

regards

 

[Vladimir]

Mid-Fi[/b]

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification <0.1% THD 20Hz-20kHz, both channels driven.

Speakers with 80-90dB SPL (1m) at 3-5% THD, FR 50Hz-20kHz at -/+3dB.

Hi-Fi

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification <0.1% THD 20Hz-20kHz, both channels driven.

Speakers with 90-100dB SPL (1m) at 1-3% THD, FR 27Hz-20kHz at -/+2dB.

Hi-End

Digital source with min. resolution of 16bit/44.1kHz.

Amplification <0.1% THD 20Hz-20kHz, both channels driven.

Speakers with above 100dB SPL (1m) at no more than 1% THD, FR 20Hz-20kHz at -/+1dB.

As PP said "hifi" can mean "stereo", "system", "music gear" etc. In the correct meaning of High Fidelity, my system is not High Fidelity.

Yes indeed amplification is a bit rough estimate there, arbitrary figures. Lets forget about amplifier watts. If you can achieve Speakers performing above 100dB SPL (1m) at no more than 1% THD, FR 20Hz-20kHz at -/+1dB, with amplifier of 10Wpc in 8 ohms <0.1% THD 20Hz-20kHz, both channels driven, no problem there, it is still High End.

 

[Vladimir]

You do raise some interesting subjects but you also come up with some very doubtful opinions (which are normally stated as 'facts')

Still, it (normally) lightens the forum up and can make for some funny reading.

regards

Only reason why I bother. We are not solving global warming here. It's a hobby.

 

[tino]

Hi-Fi starts at the point where you don't hear the flabby bass, or muffled treble of mass market all-in-one systems. Pricewise it can be anything upwards of £500-£600 new, or 50% off the new price if you buy ex-dem or fairly recent used components carefully. I think most people should be able to put together a nice little ex-dem/little used system for less than £1000 that "should" and could last many years.

I think secondhand Sonus Faber Toys (£325) + Cyrus Streamline (£425) + a NAS (£150) would be nice. Or maybe some Kef X300As (£600) and a cheap laptop (£300).

 

[davedotco]

These are all hugely subjective views, so very open to discussion.

I suggested £1500-3000, depending on sources, the rational goes like this.

My favourite sub £1k amplifiers are the Creek 50a, the Croft integrated and the Peachtree Nova. Assuming a computer (of one sort or another) front end with decent USB or spdif output and a pair of nice speaklers, ML Motion 15s, Kef LS50 or R100, among others, then about £1500 is just about possible.

Adding a cd player will up the price a little butnot too much, though to my ears, decent vnyl playback does not come cheap, I'm thinking of a Clearaudio Concept mc as a starter, you may well need a phono stage too, so maybe £3000 all up.

You can reduce these figures if you go down the active route,a Nuforce dac/pre-amp and a pair of DM5s or Artist 6 can be currently had under £1000.