What is good hi fi for you

[ellisdj]

Quite possible IMark - thats why you do the test over a week or more - listen and listen and listen for days over all different moods different content etc plenty of time to adjust and any initial feelings towards it to fade away - then take it all away and go back to how it was before.

You might notice nothing - or you might miss the sound you had before - if you miss the sound you had what do you do - live with it - or sod science and buy the cables and be happier with your systems sound?

What would you honestly do ?

 

[ellisdj]

On the other hand I dont care what I see - I have seen loads of expensive systems sound terrible so I am happy to test with my eyes open.

I'll buy some 10000€ cables is you agree to do a blind test of them against 2 others - price unknown. If you can't pick the difference, you agree to buy all the cables from me for full retail price.

What is tested and how is up to me. Agreed?

Thats a good one, I missed this one - can I pay you pound a week

Also it would need to be full loom of genuine XLO

 

[iMark]

Quite possible IMark - thats why you do the test over a week or more - listen and listen and listen for days over all different moods different content etc plenty of time to adjust and any initial feelings towards it to fade away - then take it all away and go back to how it was before.

You might notice nothing - or you might miss the sound you had before - if you miss the sound you had what do you do - live with it - or sod science and buy the cables and be happier with your systems sound?

What would you honestly do ?

If I would notice audible differences I would conclude that a component (like a cable) is faulty or that I need to see an audiologist to have my hearing tested.

 

[ellisdj]

Or just revel in your system sounding so good you just cant accept how it sounds now the cables have gone back and as such will sell a kidney to get that amazing sound back. Thats why I think people dont do that test - they know it will demolish the kids trust fund lol

 

[avole]

On the other hand I dont care what I see - I have seen loads of expensive systems sound terrible so I am happy to test with my eyes open.

I'll buy some 10000€ cables is you agree to do a blind test of them against 2 others - price unknown. If you can't pick the difference, you agree to buy all the cables from me for full retail price.

What is tested and how is up to me. Agreed?

Thats a good one, I missed this one - can I pay you pound a week

Also it would need to be full loom of genuine XLO

Why will nobody reading this thread be surprised? For you own credibility's sake, you need to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ellisdj]

Of course I am going to put myself in a position where I might have to hand over 10 large to someone I dont know for something I dont know even what it is - sorry mate you might but I dont roll in circles where I am able to do that even if I wanted to

 

[iMark]

Or just revel in your system sounding so good you just cant accept how it sounds now the cables have gone back and as such will sell a kidney to get that amazing sound back. Thats why I think people dont do that test - they know it will demolish the kids trust fund lol

No, most people know that cables can't make any audible difference. Thinking that you can hear a difference between different cables is expectation bias and self delusion. Thats why I think you won't allow a double blind test in which you don't know which cable is used in your setup.

 

[ellisdj]

Imark if you saw the access to the cabling in my system you would see why i am not pulling it about. Its not your usual setup. Monstrous amount of wires and stuff thousands spent on snake oil

I am sitting here now listeing to music streamed on tidal and local and the sound with the jcat isolator and jcat usb in the system is an absolute marvel. I mean seriously good music from av system. i dont give a stuff about blind testing because i know what i am doing works after hearing so much and being dissapointed more than impressed.

Gazzip if your still in toe and havent ordered yet because your in 2 minds dont be mate. This has exceeded my expectations its a no brainer.

 

[Gazzip]

This is a public forum, so you must allow for views that don't agree with yours.

Your post number 78 states "the jcat USB cable I bought" and post 61 states the "JCAT USB isolator coming today".

Ellis wrote even more in post #78:

"Quick synopsis - get your credit card out and get one dude - you get 2 weeks trial to return it if your not happy but I will eat my hat if you send it back.

Its an abosulte cracker - but bear in mind the cable from the isolator to the dac or whatever is the important one. I bought the JCat Iso cable because I know they are worth the money. It is very short though."

He encourages Gazzip to buy a USB cable that can't possible have any positive effect except for nurturing expectation bias and the placebo effect. If it weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.

Jeeeeeeeeyssus H Christ! What the hell is going on in here? I take a couple of days out for some R&R and all hell breaks loose! FYI Ellis and I were discussing the JCat isolator, not the USB cable. Read Post #77...

Edit - I am still wading through the other 75 posts so may have more to say on this matter...

 

[iMark]

i dont give a stuff about blind testing because i know what i am doing works after hearing so much and being dissapointed more than impressed.

So all your judgements are based on expectation bias. Without double blind tests there is no way you can say that JCat stuff actually does anything. You will think it does because you paid a lot of money for it. That's how bias expectation works.

Personnally I think you should switch to wireless streaming so you can eliminate a cable that could cause trouble. No cable is even better than the most expensive cable that could cause sound colouring.

 

[Gazzip]

i dont give a stuff about blind testing because i know what i am doing works after hearing so much and being dissapointed more than impressed.

So all your judgements are based on expectation bias. Without double blind tests there is no way you can say that JCat stuff actually does anything. You will think it does because you paid a lot of money for it. That's how bias expectation works.

Personnally I think you should switch to wireless streaming so you can eliminate a cable that could cause trouble. No cable is even better than the most expensive cable that could cause sound colouring.

The issue with double blind testing is of course that uncertainty under stress/duress creates its own set of psychological responses and biases. I personally subscribe to simple blind testing where the subject is in control of the A/B switch, thus eliminating any stress/duress and leaving the subject's mind more free to make a clear comparison...

 

[ellisdj]

I generally dont do streaming and i wouldnt dream of using wireless. Only started the lossless tidal demo period today first time listening not local. Not dissapointed but not sure i will keep it on longterm

It sounds like my system did several audio pc upgrades ago. Still good actually really just lacking that final magic bit of clarity by comparison.

Sorry gazzip i suggested the wrong thing jcat isolator and jcat iso usb cable shorter and cheaper one.

These guys were fishing for a cable arguement so i have been triggering and winding them up all day. There is some classic bs lines in there though like i tried 1 cable in 1985 and i couldn't hear any difference so i have written them all off. To me thats a classic and really made ne laugh.

All the best

 

[shadders]

I generally dont do streaming and i wouldnt dream of using wireless. Only started the lossless tidal demo period today first time listening not local. Not dissapointed but not sure i will keep it on longterm

It sounds like my system did several audio pc upgrades ago. Still good actually really just lacking that final magic bit of clarity by comparison.

Sorry gazzip i suggested the wrong thing jcat isolator and jcat iso usb cable shorter and cheaper one.

These guys were fishing for a cable arguement so i have been triggering and winding them up all day. There is some classic bs lines in there though like i tried 1 cable in 1985 and i couldn't hear any difference so i have written them all off. To me thats a classic and really made ne laugh.

All the best

Hi,

I don't think you have wound us up. All comments regarding the science of cables have been valid.

The cable I purchased 30 years ago - is valid. Whatever the cable is, as long as it is different from the previous, by your own statements, should produce a change in sound. It did not produce a different sound.

Metal conductivity has not changed since the birth of the universe (excluding the early expansion years), so the claims from the marketing department of cable manufacturers are false with regards to affecting the sound such that you can hear it. Is it not strange that they have not presented scientific proof of the benefits?

You have no evidence of the change in sound apart from your ears, which has always been scientifically proven to be expectation bias.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lindsayt]

ellisdj, what source amplification and speakers were in this £250k system that impressed you recently?

 

[ellisdj]

ellisdj, what source amplification and speakers were in this £250k system that impressed you recently?

Hi Lindsayt link in post 128.
You seen it before i am sure you commented in there

 

[lindsayt]

Coming back to the original theme of this thread. That £250k show system is not good hi-fi for me. It's average hi-fi.

Good hi-fi would be a system that sounded as good as or better than that Magico system and could be bought for a lot less. Somewhere in the region of £2.5k to £7.5k.

Great hi-fi would be doing that for under £1k.

 

[Gazzip]

Coming back to the original theme of this thread. That £250k show system is not good hi-fi for me. It's average hi-fi.

Good hi-fi would be a system that sounded as good as or better than that Magico system and could be bought for a lot less. Somewhere in the region of £2.5k to £7.5k.

Great hi-fi would be doing that for under £1k.

Hi Lindasyt. I heard that system in Windsor and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. The guy I was with is an oldskool speaker designer who usually dismisses passive speakers out of hand. Even he was blown away by that system. It was certainly the best I have heard.

I understand what you are getting at with your comments about value, but I'm afraid in this instance the system in question was so good that it would be a struggle to match at ANY price. That for me is truly great hifi.

 

[ellisdj]

Coming back to the original theme of this thread. That £250k show system is not good hi-fi for me. It's average hi-fi.

Good hi-fi would be a system that sounded as good as or better than that Magico system and could be bought for a lot less. Somewhere in the region of £2.5k to £7.5k.

Great hi-fi would be doing that for under £1k.

Hi Lindasyt. I heard that system in Windsor and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. The guy I was with is an oldskool speaker designer who usually dismisses passive speakers out of hand. Even he was blown away by that system. It was certainly the best I have heard.

I understand what you are getting at with your comments about value, but I'm afraid in this instance the system in question was so good that it would be a struggle to match at ANY price. That for me is truly great hifi.

+1 if you can match that sound for a grand your are the yoda of hifi

That system was not about looks understated just all good components sounding so good i would like to hear it again

 

[iMark]

The issue with double blind testing is of course that uncertainty under stress/duress creates its own set of psychological responses and biases. I personally subscribe to simple blind testing where the subject is in control of the A/B switch, thus eliminating any stress/duress and leaving the subject's mind more free to make a clear comparison...

I can see now why cable believers don't want to do any double blind testing. They're scared to death that their preconceptions might be disproved.

 

[iMark]

I generally dont do streaming and i wouldnt dream of using wireless. Only started the lossless tidal demo period today first time listening not local. Not dissapointed but not sure i will keep it on longterm

Your statement proves my point. You don't believe in science. It's completely logical that wireless streaming potentially has a major advantage over cables: there is no cable that can interfere with the signal (if you believe that cables can alter sound.)

 

[ellisdj]

You dont know about my setup so all your "logic" goes out of the window I am afraid IMark - I would need to make major hardware and software setup changes just to put wireless in - that would not sound better than my local stored music so its not worth the effort.

Streaming sounded decent, better than I was expecting actually and more than good enough for most people - I can see the appeal but wireless is not for me in this setup

 

[iMark]

You dont know about my setup so all your "logic" goes out of the window I am afraid IMark - I would need to make major hardware and software setup changes just to put wireless in - that would not sound better than my local stored music so its not worth the effort.

Streaming sounded decent, better than I was expecting actually and more than good enough for most people - I can see the appeal but wireless is not for me in this setup

You still don't get the point. No cable (wireless) should be better than a cable that can alter sound (according to your statements).

Incidently, does your expensive USB cable produce better prints from your USB-printer? You still haven't answered that question yet.

 

[ellisdj]

you know someone is reaching when the printer line comes out..... ahahaha

IMark you are true keyboard warrior

 

[iMark]

you know someone is reaching when the printer line comes out..... ahahaha

If you believe in USB cables making a difference in audio, you will probably believe just about anything. So why not that your expensive cable will give you better prints from your printer?

 

[ellisdj]

As its only 15cm long I would have to use an extender then all the benefit of the better cable would be lost so its not a test I have done ........

Plus my printer doesnt have very good transients and quite often makes grinding and pulsing noises I cant always make out the vocals when I am listening to it........

Plus my usb cable is directional and using in the printer would be the wrong way.....