ellisdj said:
:help: you are aware that if what you said is true the internet would break and computers in general would not work?
:help: you are aware that if what you said is true the internet would break and computers in general would not work?
Covenanter said:
I know, I know. It's just sad that somebody is willing to believe something that if were true would mean that by that very definition they wouldn't even be able to post on here :doh:
funny how sometimes humans can believe totally contradictory things.
I dont think its to do with that as such - but I do get what your saying.
I might be able to do somehting like this for you - however I would prefer to sit you down so you can listen in a room with some serious effort put into sound quality - not finished - not even half way.
I am offering this to you - you just need to make the effort to come
I might be able to do somehting like this for you - however I would prefer to sit you down so you can listen in a room with some serious effort put into sound quality - not finished - not even half way.
I am offering this to you - you just need to make the effort to come
bigboss
Moderator
Actually, I would love to come, if you agree for a series of blind tests in your own house and set up. The cables will be swapped by another forum member without our knowledge, and we should correctly identify which is which.
bigboss
Moderator
HI BB
I cant have a random messing with the cables in my audio pc, or my system for that matter just in case of a breakage or something not being wired properly. There are a lot of wires with a pre and power setup
I only have a small house and would only want 1 random person I dont know here at once. Surely you can understand all this
But BB you I would love to have come here for a day - it would nice to meet you and I can show you all my toys
This might change your buying plans in your new home develoments...... hehe
I cant have a random messing with the cables in my audio pc, or my system for that matter just in case of a breakage or something not being wired properly. There are a lot of wires with a pre and power setup
I only have a small house and would only want 1 random person I dont know here at once. Surely you can understand all this
But BB you I would love to have come here for a day - it would nice to meet you and I can show you all my toys
This might change your buying plans in your new home develoments...... hehe
ellisdj said:
well you're the one who said you were going to put your money where you mouth was, and the test I suggested doesn leave room for placebo effect, expectation bias or anything like that, so I'll leave it up to you. :cheers:
Agreed I said I would try - I have older rips on an external HD and newer rips on the PC.
I would need to get them to you some how - thats an potential issue there.
But I trust my ears and eyes - I trust you to trust yours as well - you will have no bias - in fact your bias is the other way so it would be an interesting day to go over things. I will post a a pic of the inside of my audio pc when I get a minute - have to work as well
I would need to get them to you some how - thats an potential issue there.
But I trust my ears and eyes - I trust you to trust yours as well - you will have no bias - in fact your bias is the other way so it would be an interesting day to go over things. I will post a a pic of the inside of my audio pc when I get a minute - have to work as well
bigboss
Moderator
We've got to agree on some way to test cables ellisdj. I'm even agreeing to come to your house for it. I want to make sure there's no bias or placebo effect, so the test should be blinded to both. A family member will not work here. You can choose a forum member we both know (like strapped for cash, if he agrees).
The_Lhc
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
That's your first mistake. You can't eliminate expectation bias just by thinking really hard.
Hi BB - i'm more interested in showing you everything rather than doing a cable test, but can do that as well
Hours dissapear when you are demoing stuff - especially film based material. I can show you calibrated 3D but I doubt it will be dark enough for the full monty of 3D
However I dont see why it matters for this simple test - If I change a sata cable in front of you - it cant possibly make any difference so what does it matter if you see it or not? You listen before then listen after.... simple as...
Changing other cables is a bit more tricky based on where they are - means breaking things down - I am not even too keen on keep changing my sata as it has a nasty bend in it and I wouldnt want to break on me - you will see what I mean on the day, but I would do it once
I persoanlly think you will listen to 20 minutes of music and be gob smacked by it - I honestly do - thats the true test for me - is it the best thing you have ever heard or not
Hours dissapear when you are demoing stuff - especially film based material. I can show you calibrated 3D but I doubt it will be dark enough for the full monty of 3D
However I dont see why it matters for this simple test - If I change a sata cable in front of you - it cant possibly make any difference so what does it matter if you see it or not? You listen before then listen after.... simple as...
Changing other cables is a bit more tricky based on where they are - means breaking things down - I am not even too keen on keep changing my sata as it has a nasty bend in it and I wouldnt want to break on me - you will see what I mean on the day, but I would do it once
I persoanlly think you will listen to 20 minutes of music and be gob smacked by it - I honestly do - thats the true test for me - is it the best thing you have ever heard or not
Alec
Well-known member
The_Lhc said:
Unfortunately, it is the absence of thought that is the problem here.
I'm getting increasingly sick of seeing innocent OPs threads go this way. It is important that they fix their problems. So it is important that they find a solution whether cheap or not. I'd rather someone have a priceier solution than some cheaper foo. All of you here posting your anti-science have no right to do so and I haev no respect for your opinions. Sorry, I've no comforting li[-service for you.
Each and every damging one of you ouught to be shown the thread's exit sign, and be hit by the door on the way out.
"The flat earth society is meeting here today, singing happy little lies
and the bright ship humana is sent far away with grave
determination... and no destination".
Oh, and you'll have a job agreeing, BB, as he's already ruled it out.
chebby
Well-known member
John Duncan
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
you don't need to, can all be done on your computer.
just use diffmaker http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm
So, take one file on your music pc, copy that to an external hard drive and then back again. Call that file something different. Then put the original none copied file in to diffmaker along with the copied file. If you are correct and the sata cable is changing the file (as it would have to in order to have an effect on the sound) then it should come up with differences. If no differences come up then the sata cable is having absolutely no effect on the sound whatsoever.
cheeseboy said:
It's not about bit-perfection, it's about timing of delivery. Now what the heck does a buffer do?
cheeseboy said:
No I planned to send you 2 files file A and File B and see if you could hear a difference.
2 problems
1 getting files to you.
2. you being honest about what you hear or dont hear.
That cant be monitored but sitting in the same room is different. I have no intention of going back now in terms of thought or progress.
The sound quality I am getting now is miles ahead of where I was several years ago - this is what I want to prove as well. Its all about the end result, that can only be shown in real life. Is this sound miles ahead of what your getting - that is the ultimate question because if it is what I am doing is right.
Its not perfect but I think its seriously good and thats why I offered what I did as well.
Alec
Well-known member
ellisdj, I'm not even going to try to explain your nonsense tou you. Just know that you are still hijacjking the thread (it isn't only you) and consider doing the decent thing and starting a thread emtitled "For the discussion of fairies, and other nosnsical distractions".
Please. Serioulsly. Please. This is appalling. Again, it isn't just you.
I'm out. Apologies, OP, I wish you luck.
Please. Serioulsly. Please. This is appalling. Again, it isn't just you.
I'm out. Apologies, OP, I wish you luck.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
It might well be, but I'm guessing you've changed an awful lot more than just a SATA cable in your PC to achieve that.
Hi Zilli how are you?
Looks like you got quite a bombardment from you one query. So glad to hear your bought your first Hi-Fi system. It can be very gratifying listening to your favourite music on a really good system. However getting it home, setting it up and it not sounding anything like you expected it to is not nice.
First off have you made any headway regards the advice people have made? I'd like to think so and that the system is sounding much better. As someone mentioned don't settle for "Getting used to it" if it doesn't impress you to start with something is wrong and of course seeing as it's all new kit it all need to ware it. The Amp, Cables, Speakers and your lovely Deck. even when all is set up correctly you will hear improvments when you replay a record a few months down the line.
If I my add/repeat something, I'm sure to repeat what other people have already said so I apolagise in advance.
Unfortunaly many factors can come in to play regarding your issue. Some basic ones as have already been pointed out are the direction of your speaker cable and do the markings match up. They should be marked with a + or - to help you connect them to the right binding post (not all speaker cable does). As you have bought Bi-Wireable speakers (in my opinion speakers with just 1 positive and 1 negative binding post would have been better as you are not Bi-Amping) you have the question which ones to connect too? As has been pointed out with the bridges in place it shouldn't make a difference which black or which red post you use.
I guess by now you have tried a number of combinations at the speaker end. Looking at the pictures you posted I can see the Bridge (Metal plate) has a circle round the middle post for both red and black posts. I would follow this as you connection points just to be on the safe side.
If it's not been mentioned before the bridge is there to bring the Crossover into play from all 4 binding posts. With out them the speakers wouldn't work correctly with only a twin cable going in. You would either have only the tweeter running (if both connections are Hi +/- or the driver if both connections are Lo +/- Having one in each would result in no sound so the bridge as it suggestes makes this connection and allows the tweeter and driver to work.
In most cases cable has an optimum direction hence the text on the cable and some times arrows depicting the best direction (high end cables). Though it's not a massive differene and some would say no difference, Bi-Wiring the speakers in my opinion will give you more Headroom (openness) and allow you to remove the bridges compleatly. To do this it may be worth getting some Bi-Wire cable or just another pair of what you have. On the second pair you would need spades or open wire to cennect to the amp as you are already using the banana plug socket.
Then making sure the text is going the same way on all stands of the cable (text reading away from the amp towards the speaker) then connecting 2 red marked cables to the same red binding post on the amp and 2 black marked cables to the black binding post on the amp. At the speaker end 1 pair of binding posts as i knid of mentioned is for the drivers in you speaker and the other pair is the tweeters. Bi-Wire cable should be maked telling you the exact posts to bind each strand to.
As mentioned by others a bigger room would be better. Low frequencies have a longer sound wave then the high frequencies and could be masking the high end. If there is any EQ on the Amp may I suggest you don't use it. Set to flat or nutral or bypass it altogether if you can. You would only adding or taking away from the source music. Leave it natural to allow the most detail to come thhrough.
Make sure your Rega deck is on a surface that is 100% flat. That would be a good question to assk you. What do you have your amp and deck mounted on if you haven't already said? Resonece from what they ar standing on can add noise to your music through the speakers so mayby a Quadrespire isolation shelf would be good for your deck to go on.
I hope I have hlped and made sence. For future reference as mentioned by others. Audition what you plan to buy and in my opinion factor the cables you plan to use, Speaker, interconnector and mains cables into your budget. Personally about 1/4-1/3 of your budget should go on cables that will extract the most from your set up and 1/4-1/3 on the furniture you wish to mount it all on. Contact the cable manufacturers, let them know what you have or ar going to purchase kit wise and they should recomend the best cable for your price range. Chord Company are amazing at this and though I'm a CD guy my system has come alive more than I new it could and still I know there is more to come.
Best of luck and sorry for the long post.
The cable Madman.
Looks like you got quite a bombardment from you one query. So glad to hear your bought your first Hi-Fi system. It can be very gratifying listening to your favourite music on a really good system. However getting it home, setting it up and it not sounding anything like you expected it to is not nice.
First off have you made any headway regards the advice people have made? I'd like to think so and that the system is sounding much better. As someone mentioned don't settle for "Getting used to it" if it doesn't impress you to start with something is wrong and of course seeing as it's all new kit it all need to ware it. The Amp, Cables, Speakers and your lovely Deck. even when all is set up correctly you will hear improvments when you replay a record a few months down the line.
If I my add/repeat something, I'm sure to repeat what other people have already said so I apolagise in advance.
Unfortunaly many factors can come in to play regarding your issue. Some basic ones as have already been pointed out are the direction of your speaker cable and do the markings match up. They should be marked with a + or - to help you connect them to the right binding post (not all speaker cable does). As you have bought Bi-Wireable speakers (in my opinion speakers with just 1 positive and 1 negative binding post would have been better as you are not Bi-Amping) you have the question which ones to connect too? As has been pointed out with the bridges in place it shouldn't make a difference which black or which red post you use.
I guess by now you have tried a number of combinations at the speaker end. Looking at the pictures you posted I can see the Bridge (Metal plate) has a circle round the middle post for both red and black posts. I would follow this as you connection points just to be on the safe side.
If it's not been mentioned before the bridge is there to bring the Crossover into play from all 4 binding posts. With out them the speakers wouldn't work correctly with only a twin cable going in. You would either have only the tweeter running (if both connections are Hi +/- or the driver if both connections are Lo +/- Having one in each would result in no sound so the bridge as it suggestes makes this connection and allows the tweeter and driver to work.
In most cases cable has an optimum direction hence the text on the cable and some times arrows depicting the best direction (high end cables). Though it's not a massive differene and some would say no difference, Bi-Wiring the speakers in my opinion will give you more Headroom (openness) and allow you to remove the bridges compleatly. To do this it may be worth getting some Bi-Wire cable or just another pair of what you have. On the second pair you would need spades or open wire to cennect to the amp as you are already using the banana plug socket.
Then making sure the text is going the same way on all stands of the cable (text reading away from the amp towards the speaker) then connecting 2 red marked cables to the same red binding post on the amp and 2 black marked cables to the black binding post on the amp. At the speaker end 1 pair of binding posts as i knid of mentioned is for the drivers in you speaker and the other pair is the tweeters. Bi-Wire cable should be maked telling you the exact posts to bind each strand to.
As mentioned by others a bigger room would be better. Low frequencies have a longer sound wave then the high frequencies and could be masking the high end. If there is any EQ on the Amp may I suggest you don't use it. Set to flat or nutral or bypass it altogether if you can. You would only adding or taking away from the source music. Leave it natural to allow the most detail to come thhrough.
Make sure your Rega deck is on a surface that is 100% flat. That would be a good question to assk you. What do you have your amp and deck mounted on if you haven't already said? Resonece from what they ar standing on can add noise to your music through the speakers so mayby a Quadrespire isolation shelf would be good for your deck to go on.
I hope I have hlped and made sence. For future reference as mentioned by others. Audition what you plan to buy and in my opinion factor the cables you plan to use, Speaker, interconnector and mains cables into your budget. Personally about 1/4-1/3 of your budget should go on cables that will extract the most from your set up and 1/4-1/3 on the furniture you wish to mount it all on. Contact the cable manufacturers, let them know what you have or ar going to purchase kit wise and they should recomend the best cable for your price range. Chord Company are amazing at this and though I'm a CD guy my system has come alive more than I new it could and still I know there is more to come.
Best of luck and sorry for the long post.
The cable Madman.
Zilli,
If you are still bothering to read this thread, you can happily disregard most of it as nonsense. The solution to your issues require major changes. It depends on you circumstances but is there anyway that you can return or exchange any of your equipment?
If not, then the chapest way forward is this.
1) Check and recheck the setup of your player, particularly the arm and cartridge.
2) Wall mount the player, a purpose built shelf for peference, failing that a pair of brackets with a small shelf resting on them but not attached by screws or other fixings. Get the shelf as level as you can and put the player on it.
3) Replace the Missions with a decent pair of stand mount speakers, obviously you are limited by what is available to you, maybe a pair of Rega RS1?
4) Set up the system from the beginning paying particular attention to the player support and speaker stands, revisit the speakers when you move to a bigger room.
Good Luck.
If you are still bothering to read this thread, you can happily disregard most of it as nonsense. The solution to your issues require major changes. It depends on you circumstances but is there anyway that you can return or exchange any of your equipment?
If not, then the chapest way forward is this.
1) Check and recheck the setup of your player, particularly the arm and cartridge.
2) Wall mount the player, a purpose built shelf for peference, failing that a pair of brackets with a small shelf resting on them but not attached by screws or other fixings. Get the shelf as level as you can and put the player on it.
3) Replace the Missions with a decent pair of stand mount speakers, obviously you are limited by what is available to you, maybe a pair of Rega RS1?
4) Set up the system from the beginning paying particular attention to the player support and speaker stands, revisit the speakers when you move to a bigger room.
Good Luck.
ellisdj said:
Why stop there? If changing the links makes such a massive difference, why not go the whole hog and bypass your binding posts all-together by soldering your cables directly to the crossovers? If there's a 100% quality increase from changing the links for wire, just imagine, there must be at least a 500% quality increase from my suggestion!
I copyrighted the idea in case at some point in the future I decided to try my hand at snake oil salesmanship.
No, speakers won't 'continually improve over many years'.. you'll like them out of the box or you'll be endlessly looking for improvements or you'll simply accept limitations.
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