We would usually recommend spending more on the CD than the amp or speakers. Is this good advice?

[SemiChronic]

My Hifi journey(condensed)

Having gone through a couple of amps, cd players, speakers, cables etc. Id say that(from my experience) having the best amp, speakers and cables i can afford makes it easier to accept or reject a component, as i think my system is quite revealing and i cant see that changing anytime in the future.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've heard many systems through the KEF Blades in store, and I'm sure many will agree - even if they're not their cup of tea - that they're a revealing enough pair of speakers to assess all but the most esoteric electronics. It is one thing to get the right amplification to properly drive and control them, and allow them to do what they were designed to do. It is another to get the source right. Through such a system, it is quite easy to hear the shortcomings of a particular DAC, or CD player/streamer and its own DAC. Some compliment the amp/speaker combo by allowing the sound to be completely free of the speakers, producing a real, three dimensional soundstage that facilitates closing your eyes and hearing the soundstage extend well beyond the solid room boundaries. It is also quite easy to hear those that don't quite make that grade - falling just short of a completely clean signal that can't quite break completely away from the drivers, producing a flatter soundstage or a slightly 'smeared' top end (there are a number of things where it can fall short). Whether these shortcomings are down to the DAC chip itself or the analogue stage in that component is neither here nor there - everything is built to a budget.

Whilst changing speakers will normally bring about the most immediately obvious changes to the sound of a system, all you're doing is being presented the sound of that system in a slightly different way - the quality of the signal into the speaker hasn't changed, only what the speaker is doing with that signal. Feed those speakers a better quality signal though...

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm very much in the "this question was answered on the first page" camp.

If you're using a CDP as a transport, assuming this source doesn't manipulate the digital information, there's really no difference between players. The only other factors worth considering are durability and aesthetics.

I own a Teac PD-H600 CDP, which is my favourite component in my hi-fi and AV chain. I bought this blind -- which is not something I'd usually do -- based on rave reviews and observations on its DAC capabilities.

Connected by analogue, the Teac sounds more detailed and expressive than any source I've tried, which admittedly isn't the widest selection. Once I connect the Teac via optical, it sounds exactly the same as any other digitally connected source I've thrown into the mix.

There's a tendency to overcomplicate this kind of discussion, when it's only worth spending a good proportion of your budget on the source if you're using analogue connections. You could be just as well served by a cheap CDP and external DAC, however.

 

[manicm]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

Same 'question' for you Cno. Why can't you stop making passive agressive and veiled insults? As a frequent receptor of these, I'd appreciate when you run out of arguments not to resort to nagging, please. This is a sincere plea. I don't expect a sociopath like manicm to control himself, but I have hope you can.

I thought we'd keep out of each other's way but obviously your skin is thick. Keep up the name calling.

 

[CnoEvil]

So you will stop making personal attacks only when I stop making general ones aimed at no one in particular? Clever. At least you've now come clean what you are doing and deny it. "Its just an observation".  This proves my point in my previous post.?

I clearly remember Joe Cox stating personal attacks on forum members are forbiden and general opinions are not. I have the right of freedom of speech and you have the right to feel insulted from my general remarks. And vice versa. Feel free to speak your mind on 'objectivists' or 'Vlads'. 

You misunderstand me. What I actually said was, if you "really think" what I say is an attack, I will stop commenting on your posting style. You are interpreting this as an attack....my intention was to give feedback, in case I could persuade you to use your considerable talent solely for helping others.

If you think it's OK to insult groups of people, I might just comment on it. If it gets me banned, so be it. I don't believe I have a history of confrontation on here, but will, on occasion comment....be it you, or anyone else.

 

[Vladimir]

So you will stop making personal attacks only when I stop making general ones aimed at no one in particular? Clever. At least you've now come clean what you are doing and deny it. "Its just an observation". This proves my point in my previous post.

I clearly remember Joe Cox stating personal attacks on forum members are forbiden and general opinions are not. I have the right of freedom of speech and you have the right to feel insulted from my general remarks. And vice versa. Feel free to speak your mind on 'objectivists' or 'Vlads'.

You misunderstand me. What I actually said was, if you "really think" what I say is an attack, I will stop commenting on your posting style. You are interpreting this as an attack....my intention was to give feedback, in case I could persuade you to use your considerable talent solely for helping others.

If you think it's OK to insult groups of people, I might just comment on it. If it gets me banned, so be it. I don't believe I have a history of confrontation on here, but will, on occasion comment....be it you, or anyone else.

I clearly said passive aggressive nagging aimed at me personally, not at my arguments or opinions. But nevermind powdering up the mask. You 100% understand everything I said.

I honestly think if people would stop feeling insulted by expressed opinions that defy their beliefs, this place would be forum utopia.

 

[MajorFubar]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

You're quite right...I'd had a bad night one thing or another and I unreservedly retract the unwarranted insult to Thompson. I was actually going to edit it because I realised it was a poor example of forum etiquette, but by the time I thought about it, ID had already quoted. So we are where we are.

But allow me to follow with a question which anyone can feel free to answer. I would expecially appreciate Thompson's response seeing that we are obviously at odds in our beliefs of where to best spend money, but of course it's his choice whether he answers or not:

Let's say you have a £250 CD player, £250 amp and £250 speakers. They work just great, but one day you find yourself with £500 spare and you decide you're going to upgrade ONE component out the three and blow the full £500 on a new CDP, amp or speakers. The aim of the upgrade is to give the biggest improvement in sound quality for the money. Which do you choose? I accept the caveat that doubling the price of any of the three is potentially creating an imbalance, in so far as the remaining two components are perhaps not realising the full potential of the component you've just upgraded. But none the less...which one?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Major you should generate a new topic with this.

 

[CnoEvil]

I clearly said passive aggressive nagging aimed at me personally, not at my arguments or opinions. But nevermind powdering up the mask. You 100% understand everything I said.?

I honestly think if people would stop feeling insulted by expressed opinions that defy their beliefs, this place would be forum utopia. 

I can't make myself any clearer...and certainly can't stop you viewing my comments as a personal attack, even if that is not how they are intended...such is the nature of forums.

Generally, people don't get angry at expressed opinions that defy their beliefs, provided it is done with a little respect....there is often a feeling in certain quarters, that some people deserve all the derision that they get, for being so stupid. It is this that I object to...BTW. This is a general comment and not a personal attack on you.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

Hear, hear!

In some corners of the forum it seems now to be considered acceptable to call other posters 'idiots' (or similar). There's a creeping increase in low-level nastiness.

cant agree more..i cant imagine what new forum members must be thinking?(a few have said please be kind? Mmm?) the level of personal attack is awful..no one would talk to eachother as they do here outside in the real world..i dont understand where the moderators are? They removed that 'batter lifestyle post' but calling someone a 'moron' thats ok? By not moderating that comment..is what hifi saying this is ok? This doesnt look good for the magazine..reputation is important..

 

[SemiChronic]

Being new here, ill admit i had to laugh. I read for a few days before joining, so didnt sign up blind as it were. The slanted posts that often appear arent out of the ordinary for any forum, as far as i can see. Its just a load of willy waving but does occasionally throw up some good posts, so i have no problem with heated topics/squabbles. Maybe i dont even have the right to give opinion on anything, as most of my gear was bought from RS, automatically making me thick idiot with cloth ears 🙂

 

[Vladimir]

I clearly said passive aggressive nagging aimed at me personally, not at my arguments or opinions. But nevermind powdering up the mask. You 100% understand everything I said.

I honestly think if people would stop feeling insulted by expressed opinions that defy their beliefs, this place would be forum utopia.

I can't make myself any clearer...and certainly can't stop you viewing my comments as a personal attack, even if that is not how they are intended...such is the nature of forums.

Generally, people don't get angry at expressed opinions that defy their beliefs, provided it is done with a little respect....there is often a feeling in certain quarters, that some people deserve all the derision that they get, for being so stupid. It is this that I object to...BTW. This is a general comment and not a personal attack on you.

When I write my thoughts on a pair of speakers and an amplifier and you reply out of nowhere with a snide comment if I'm trolling the thread, I'll call you out every time. Be sure of it.

 

[TrevC]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

You're quite right...I'd had a bad night one thing or another and I unreservedly retract the unwarranted insult to Thompson. I was actually going to edit it because I realised it was a poor example of forum etiquette, but by the time I thought about it, ID had already quoted. So we are where we are.

But allow me to follow with a question which anyone can feel free to answer. I would expecially appreciate Thompson's response seeing that we are obviously at odds in our beliefs of where to best spend money, but of course it's his choice whether he answers or not:

Let's say you have a £250 CD player, £250 amp and £250 speakers. They work just great, but one day you find yourself with £500 spare and you decide you're going to upgrade ONE component out the three and blow the full £500 on a new CDP, amp or speakers. The aim of the upgrade is to give the biggest improvement in sound quality for the money. Which do you choose? I accept the caveat that doubling the price of any of the three is potentially creating an imbalance, in so far as the remaining two components are perhaps not realising the full potential of the component you've just upgraded. But none the less...which one?

Speakers every time. providing the amp is powerful enough. Price is irrelevant when talking about amplifiers.

 

[Vladimir]

Speakers every time. providing the amp is powerful enough. Price is irrelevant when talking about amplifiers.

+1

 

[keeper of the quays]

Being new here, ill admit i had to laugh. I read for a few days before joining, so didnt sign up blind as it were. The slanted posts that often appear arent out of the ordinary for any forum, as far as i can see. Its just a load of willy waving but does occasionally throw up some good posts, so i have no problem with heated topics/squabbles. Maybe i dont even have the right to give opinion on anything, as most of my gear was bought from RS, automatically making me thick idiot with cloth ears 🙂

im thick too...have dac magic, ca 540p ca 640p..ms 902i and tannoy speakers from richer sounds..thought they ok..tunbridge wells branch..every tweeter on display speakers pushed in! Lol...

 

[keeper of the quays]

Speakers every time. providing the amp is powerful enough. Price is irrelevant when talking about amplifiers.

+1

speakers..assuming amp can run them..

 

[Frank Harvey]

Let's say you have a £250 CD player, £250 amp and £250 speakers. They work just great, but one day you find yourself with £500 spare and you decide you're going to upgrade ONE component out the three and blow the full £500 on a new CDP, amp or speakers. The aim of the upgrade is to give the biggest improvement in sound quality for the money. Which do you choose? I accept the caveat that doubling the price of any of the three is potentially creating an imbalance, in so far as the remaining two components are perhaps not realising the full potential of the component you've just upgraded. But none the less...which one?

Depends on the capabilities of each of those three components, and what aspect/aspects of the system the individual is looking to improve. I'd also go as far to say that my choice would depend on the intended listening level, size of the room, as well as a few other aspects. What I would improve in this system won't necessarily be the same for a system using £1000 or £2000 components, but I'd be tempted to change the amplifier.

As always, the most blatant difference many will hear will be when changing speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

...and you reply out of nowhere with a snide comment if I'm trolling the thread, I'll call you out every time. Be sure of it.

I can understand that it may have appeared that way. If you reread the thread, you may see where I'm coming from. If you are genuinely baffled, then I've probably misread your intentions, in which case I'm doing you a disservice.

 

[MajorFubar]

Major you should generate a new topic with this.

That's probably a good idea, but to be honest I think this thread and any spin-off from it has had its course.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

+1.

Quote of the day.

 

[tonky]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

+1.

Quote of the day.

+ 1 again for sure - shame there is no moderator these days..

And Major's point 500£ - a pair of speakers would change the sound the most. But I too would be most tempted with spending it on an amplifier (speakers at a later date - maybe)

peaceful postings people - tonky

 

[davedotco]

In the last page or so the thread has returned to the 'relative' importance of the speakers.

What I find interesting are the words being used, 'different' and 'change' seem to be the most popular.

The question I find myself asking is that, while differences/changes between speakers may be obvious, genuine improvements are much harder to find.

I think amplifiers are pivotal here, I think they have far more effect than they are given credit for and it is not all about power, at least not 'regular' xxx watts into 8 ohms kind of power.

 

[Vladimir]

Some may recognize the OP in this 2003 thread. (hint: he didn't get along well with the merchants at head-fi)

 

[Al ears]

I have a (rhetorical) question - Why can't people make their points without making nasty personal attacks? In my opinion, it demeans them, diminishes their argument, drives people away and inhibits others from contributing?

Be careful, or you will end up with the forum you deserve.

+1.

Quote of the day.

Reading this thread I think we already have it.

 

[matt49]

Let's say you have a £250 CD player, £250 amp and £250 speakers. They work just great, but one day you find yourself with £500 spare and you decide you're going to upgrade ONE component out the three and blow the full £500 on a new CDP, amp or speakers. The aim of the upgrade is to give the biggest improvement in sound quality for the money. Which do you choose? I accept the caveat that doubling the price of any of the three is potentially creating an imbalance, in so far as the remaining two components are perhaps not realising the full potential of the component you've just upgraded. But none the less...which one?

I wouldn't be able to decide, so I'd start a thread here, asking the question, and I'd wait to see all the friendly and even-tempered answers pour in. *shok*