usb cables expensive v cheap

[Anonymous]

http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/vertere-acoustics-d-fi-usb-interconnect-cable.html

It'll make no difference, but it does exist.

Yes they do exist, but underneath the shiny plastic and Vertere branding, there'll be a simple USB cable that's been "made" on an automated production line somewhere, probably China, but certainly not in some Vertere factory.

They do apparently, actually make interconnects, though, This one by hand. It costs £3950.

 

[BenLaw]

http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/vertere-acoustics-d-fi-usb-interconnect-cable.html

It'll make no difference, but it does exist.

And indeed WHF gave it 5 stars, along with the usual guff that perpetuates these myths:

http://www.whathifi.com/review/vertere-pulse-d-fi

 

[BenLaw]

Do people here actually known what a digital signal is? Basically it's a string of 1s and 0s and that's all represented by + and - voltages. Now as long as a cable doesn't convert 1s into 0s or vice versa, and it would have to be a pretty s**t cable to do that, the receiving device can recover the original signal completely. There is a piece of maths called "Shannon's Theorem" that proves this and that's been known for what must be over 50 years now.

This imperviousness to signal degredation is why CDs don't suffer (in general) from the type of pops and clicks you can get from vinyl and why DAB radio doesn't get the type of interference FM radio can get. The actual timing of the 1s and 0s doesn't matter either because the receiving device can store the incoming signal in a buffer and take it out at the correct rate. This is why CD players in cars don't suffer from the movement of the car.

So as long as a USB or any other digital cable delivers the 1s and 0s in a form where they can be recognised as such it doesn't actually matter what it does to the signal. After all you can download Gigabytes of computer information down a USB cable and it all gets to the other end in perfect condition and a digitised music signal is identical in nature.

So any talk of cables being able to modify the nature of a digital signal in some systematic way, for example enhancing the sound stage or providing deeper bass, is on a par with believing in the tooth fairy.

As I said before, some people will still hear differences between digital cables but what is going on is going on in their heads not in any objective world.

Chris

So you're saying that a wire isn't like coffee in a cup to which you can add milk or sugar to alter the taste??

Now you're just being silly. How are we expected to understand how these science thingies work without valid analogies such as these?

 

[Covenanter]

I'm sure that if you were to give me $600 I could make you a USB cable that you could hear a difference between it and a "standard" cable when you streamed digital audio or music

I would make it with material of such a high resistance that the data transfer rate would be so slow that just enough data would get through in sufficient time to be processed for you to hear or see something but most of it would be lost

We must not confuse data transfer with data streaming. Streaming has a time element involved. The data is useless if it arrives too late.

How the lack of data manifests itself to the listener or viewer is probably in poorer SQ or PQ. How they describe this porrer quality is obviously subjective

I'm intrigued that you think increasing resistance would slow down the transfer rate rather than just attenuating the signal.

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

[UNPUBLISHED - banned user]

And the main advice above is actually borrow and decide by yourself...

+1

I strongly disagree. I think the best advice is the truth, which is that digital cables have nothing to do with audio/video quality beyond them actually working, or not. There's no such thing as a better one in terms of performance, so why borrow one? What would one be deciding on?

 

[ifor]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

[relocated]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

Sorry Ifor, what is your point? :?

 

[ifor]

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables. Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish. Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

 

[El Hefe]

Borrow because the question by OP is related to cost of the cable.... To avoid him spending extreme amount of money unnecesarily.

This is hifi and music. Make a decision base on what one hears, not based on what other people hear, or whatever a 6 page long thread on 1s and 0s discussion trying to prove or whatever a review says. YMYD.

 

[BigH]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

So you are saying WhatHiFi reviews are influenced by owners views?

 

[hammill]

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables. Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish. Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

I think you should be asking why we should trust any WHF reviews if they gave favourable reviews of USB cables. I am certainly more favourably inclined to Roth products now I know he is not stupid.

 

[BenLaw]

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables. Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish. Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

I think you should be asking why we should trust any WHF reviews if they gave favourable reviews of USB cables. I am certainly more favourably inclined to Roth products now I know he is not stupid.

 

[Craig M.]

Well said hammill. :clap:

 

[ifor]

So you are saying WhatHiFi reviews are influenced by owners views?

No, I didn't say that.

 

[BenLaw]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

Whatever it is, it isn't a Ratner moment, as he's not slagging off his own products.

 

[ifor]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

Whatever it is, it isn't a Ratner moment, as he's not slagging off his own products.

True, he's not, but nonetheless I think I'll follow them with less interest than before.

 

[Overdose]

My point is that WHF reviewers have given exceeding favourable reviews to some USB cables. Mr Roth is obviously of the opinion that the reviews are rubbish. Therefore, I ask why we should trust reviews of Roth products when reviewed by the same team?

The reviews might be absolute nonsense but they are valuable in helping (or not, depending on review result) sales of products. You can take from a magazine review what you will, but it's better to make an informed decision based on actual exprience and using a little common sense and knowledge, rather than being sucked in by marketing, paid for or otherwise.

As for Roth AV? I've no idea of the products made/sold, but I'm wary of all reviews regardless.

As someone has said before, fools will always be fooled all of the time.

 

[bigboss]

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting. I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews. A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

I don't get this. Are you saying that if my friend supports the English cricket team (as me), then I should be happy about his support for Manchester United (when I support Man City), simply because we both support the same team in cricket?

 

[Anonymous]

[UNPUBLISHED - banned user]

And the main advice above is actually borrow and decide by yourself...

+1

I strongly disagree. I think the best advice is the truth, which is that digital cables have nothing to do with audio/video quality beyond them actually working, or not. There's no such thing as a better one in terms of performance, so why borrow one? What would one be deciding on?

Borrow because the question by OP is related to cost of the cable.... To avoid him spending extreme amount of money unnecesarily.

This is hifi and music. Make a decision base on what one hears, not based on what other people hear, or whatever a 6 page long thread on 1s and 0s discussion trying to prove or whatever a review says. YMYD.

Surely the best way to help the OP avoid spending an extreme amount of money unnecessarily, is to explain to him/her that USB cables can have no effect on audio quality? Advising he/she demoes different USB cables and decides for him/herself whether any sound different is only going to confuse, and set the stage for expectation bias, which most likely will lead to unnecessary spending.

Yes this is hifi and music, and people should make decisions based on what they hear, but they should also know what can effect sound quality and what can't, so they know what's worth demoing and what isn't.

USB cables are not worth demoing because they have no effect on sound quality.

 

[professorhat]

I think it's clear Mr Roth should visit his GP.

 

[Craig M.]

Funny!

 

[Trefor Patten]

Oh for goodness sake, when is this going to end? Mains, Speaker, interconnect, USB, even Cat 5/6/7 cables MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Yes, there are cables which are really cheap which sound good, There are expensive cables which are a total rip-off. Decide what you are willing to pay. Listen to lots of cables. Ignore dealers/producers who will not let you try-before-you-buy. Then buy the best you can afford and ENJOY YOUR MUSIC. Idiots about in both the 'makes no difference' and 'this cable has changed my life' camps. There are seriously expensive cables which make a serious amount of difference and there are some which don't (made by shysters - you know who you are) and there are some real bargains which add much more listening enjoyment than indicated by their price. Stop this puerile fundamentalism and listen! (You may note I have deliberately refrained from recommending my favourites). 8)

 

[hammill]

Cat 5/6/7? you are just trying to wind us up, surely you cannot believe that?

 

[El Hefe]

Knowing more sometimes can be more confusing. When it comes to pleasure of music, I rather one to trust their own ears eventhough there is white paper by Albert Einstein himself saying the opposite.

And its for the OP to take any advices with a pinch of salt. This is not a textbook exercise of which there is a clear right or wrong.

Play a track today and play it again next week without changing anything in your set up. I will be surprised if there isn't even a slight different in sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the WhatHiFi forum......and try and chill out!