usb cables expensive v cheap

[Sospri]

I would concur with most of the above,

However I did once purchase a very cheap HDMI cable to go between a blu ray player and TV and resulted in an awful picture with a lot of interferance.

I swapped the cable for another and got a perfect picture, I can only think that the first cable was damaged in some way. So I probably go with chebbys

advice and not to go with bargain basement.....................

 

[richardw42]

...regardless that I did hear a difference with a USD600 USB cable when I did a review on it.

blimey, who charges $600 for a USB cable, and have they actually sold any ?

 

[ifor]

This might interest you.

http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/lautus-audio-interconnect.htm

What a load of clap trap, A digital interconnect only carries digital data, NOT audio or video.

As for the rest of the gobbledygook on the website, words fail me; I had to look twice to make sure it wasn’t April Fools Day.

Unbelievable (Literally)

Bill

It's probably one of the most honest, informative and educational HiFi websites there is , but I accept you might not see it way.

 

[El Hefe]

...regardless that I did hear a difference with a USD600 USB cable when I did a review on it.

blimey, who charges $600 for a USB cable, and have they actually sold any ?

Google for Kingrex Unanimous U-Art Y cable.... They have been selling well but they didnt manage to get USD600 from me

 

[WinterRacer]

As an ex engineer, most of my posts on here have to either help someone with a technical point or challenge the absurdities in some of the claims made for mains cables / speaker cables / interconnects ......

1. USB powered DAC - while not exactly HiFi, by my definition, any DAC that is USB powered will be getting its supply down the USB cable. The DAC needs a clean, low impedance supply. Thin conductors, badly shielded construction, poor connector quality could impact this.

2. Synchronous data transfer - Just as with S/PDIF, in this mode the DAC will be deriving its clock from the incoming data stream. Badly shaped pulses, noisy data lines, could lead to an increase in received jitter in the DAC.

So, in any proper USB implementation (DAC not powered from the USB, async data transfer)...

andyjm, as an engineer you might be interested in another current engineer's view view on async and usb power:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/odac-update.html#odacfaq

IS THE ODAC ASYNCHRONOUS[/b] There’s a lot of marketing and other hype lately surrounding asynchronous DACs. Much of it is myth. Just like op amps got a bad name from the old 741 released many decades ago, so did USB audio based on early synchronous designs. But most modern USB audio devices use an adaptive interface where alocal clock controls the DAC and is only loosely coupled to the PC’s timing. Contrary to popular belief, with an adaptive interface the data is not directly clocked by the USB port. This method has been refined over the years and can work very well. It’s also natively supported by all major operating systems. Most methods of true asynchronous USB audio require proprietary drivers under Windows and proprietary drivers are rarely a good thing. Judging a USB DAC by whether it’s asynch or adaptive is a bit like judging a car by the engine configuration—i.e. an inline six in a BMW vs a V6 in a Nissan GT-R. Other aspects of the design are more likely to limit the performance and there are plenty of examples of outstanding USB DACs using adaptive interfaces.

USB power has a number of practical advantages:

Power Noise Below the DAC’s Noise Floor[/b] – It turns out ground and conducted (electromagnetic) noise are typically as significant as noise on the USB power line. Because a connection to the PC’s ground is required regardless, simply using an external power supply doesn’t automatically mean freedom from USB bus noise. With the ODAC the solution involved careful routing of ground currents, different power supply conditioning for the digital and analog sides, careful capacitor selection, and inductive filtering. The result is the latest prototype’s noise floor is mainly determined by the DAC IC itself not the USB power bus. Put another way, an independent power supply wouldn’t make much difference.

Basically, with careful design, the above points are not design limitations that cause any audible issues.

 

[Rimse]

There is difference between free usb printer cable and expensive ones.Expensive one usually accentuate bass,high,mids,remove sibilance or add it .This depends I think on wire material used inside:copper,silver etc... But all this means that expensive usb cable might not work in your system and might disintagrate sound .As example in my systems furutech formula doesn't work well because system already has balanced sound enough bass and nice mids and highs and furutech pops more bass and sound becomes disintegrated even more bass,tamed midrange.But if your system bass shy it might work very well

 

[hammill]

There is difference between free usb printer cable and expensive ones.Expensive one usually accentuate bass,high,mids,remove sibilance or add it .

A cable transferring digital data cannot do any of those things, except via the placebo effect.

 

[relocated]

There is difference between free usb printer cable and expensive ones.Expensive one usually accentuate bass,high,mids,remove sibilance or add it .

A cable transferring digital data cannot do any of those things, except via the placebo effect.

Exactly. Rimse would you only use a specific brand of cable to print a picture or make a back-up of your hard-drive? Of course not the idea is preposterous as is hdmi and usb cables affecting bass or treble or blacker blacks.

 

[BronC]

There is difference between free usb printer cable and expensive ones.Expensive one usually accentuate bass,high,mids,remove sibilance or add it .

A cable transferring digital data cannot do any of those things, except via the placebo effect.

Gentlemen - I refer you to my earlier post. It does make a difference if you are streaming. It matters if you are streaming video / audio.

USB also has different transfer modes. There is a specific one called (I think) isochronous. This can be used for audio / video trstreaming transfer and can result in data loss. USB bulk data transfer mode is used I think for non-streaming transfers.

I am not saying that there is much difference or that a $600 cable is a must buy but I agree that people should try and see.

 

[richardw42]

I think data loss or its effective transfer might be a consequence of poorly designed / implemented cable.

However, the whole treble, bass sibilance etc stuff really seems like b*##*#ks to me. The types of post like Rimses give hi Fi fans / audiophiles a bad name. Deservedly in this case.

 

[hammill]

There is difference between free usb printer cable and expensive ones.Expensive one usually accentuate bass,high,mids,remove sibilance or add it .

A cable transferring digital data cannot do any of those things, except via the placebo effect.

Gentlemen - I refer you to my earlier post. It does make a difference if you are streaming. It matters if you are streaming video / audio.

USB also has different transfer modes. There is a specific one called (I think) isochronous. This can be used for audio / video trstreaming transfer and can result in data loss. USB bulk data transfer mode is used I think for non-streaming transfers.

I am not saying that there is much difference or that a $600 cable is a must buy but I agree that people should try and see.

Data loss, possibly, but this will cause random effects. Sometimes no signal (most likely) or some horrible noise or pixellation effect. It cannot cause sibilance or too little/ too much bass etc - that is what we are objecting to.

 

[WinterRacer]

Gentlemen - I refer you to my earlier post. It does make a difference if you are streaming. It matters if you are streaming video / audio.

USB also has different transfer modes. There is a specific one called (I think) isochronous. This can be used for audio / video trstreaming transfer and can result in data loss. USB bulk data transfer mode is used I think for non-streaming transfers.

I am not saying that there is much difference or that a $600 cable is a must buy but I agree that people should try and see.

Yes, the mode used for streaming audio/video over USB is called isochronous. Bulk mode is used for printing, copying files, etc. Bulk mode includes a re-transmit if errors are detected, isochronous doesn't.

An out of specification and really bad cable could introduce jitter, but even if it did introduce so many errors that they became audible, this wouldn't be more bass or treble, it would jsut be random noise.

Just use USB certified cables and you'll be fine. My advice would be to steer clear of audiophile cables - unless you want something that looks cool/expensive

 

[fr0g]

Who buys usb cables these days? I have about 30 in all.

Question and answer

I'm assuming he meant he has that many kicking around due to always receiving a free one when he buys some equipment (we'll ignore the fact that they aren't actually free and the price is incorporated into the price paid for the piece of kit one purchases).

I'm also prepared to accept that he may have stolen them, which is why mine always seem to go missing. Or that he used to purchase them all the time, so has no need to "these days".

You were right first time.

Yes, I have a box full of the darn things! You get them free with phones, computer bits and bobs, media players, computers, even a motherboard I bought once, printers, PS3 accessories, etc etc.

Lots of different colours and sizes, some with micro-usb, some with that squarish end whose name escapes me.

The only difference between a cheap USB cable and an expensive audiophile one, is the price, some fancy looking padding and a nice logo.

 

[abacus]

A USB cable (Just like any digital interconnect) DOES NOT and I repeat DOES NOT carry any audio or video, only Digital Data, therefore all this talk of sound change is poppycock. (Studio engineers and professionals usually fall over laughing when they hear Hi Fi users talking rubbish like that)

So to sum up, there is NO difference in sound or video between a £5 USB cable and a $600 cable, if you don’t believe me, try a blind test between the two and I can guarantee 100% that you will not hear any difference.

Bill

 

[ifor]

A USB cable (Just like any digital interconnect) DOES NOT and I repeat DOES NOT carry any audio or video, only Digital Data, therefore all this talk of sound change is poppycock. (Studio engineers and professionals usually fall over laughing when they hear Hi Fi users talking rubbish like that)

So to sum up, there is NO difference in sound or video between a £5 USB cable and a $600 cable, if you don’t believe me, try a blind test between the two and I can guarantee 100% that you will not hear any difference.

Bill

Bill, I think you will have to accept that not everyone will agree with you however loud you shout and however often you repeat it. I'm quite sure that a lot of expensive "audiophile" USB cables are nothing special; they are no more than cons, but I for one believe that there are some rather special USB cables available. When I have a need, which currently I don't, I will compare.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm quite sure that a lot of expensive "audiophile" USB cables are nothing special; they are no more than cons, but I for one believe that there are some rather special USB cables available. When I have a need, which currently I don't, I will compare.

I recomend you give a listen to the D-Fi from Vertere, when the time comes. :silenced:

 

[manicm]

I recomend you give a listen to the D-Fi from Vertere, when the time comes. :silenced:

Whoops!

 

[CnoEvil]

I recomend you give a listen to the D-Fi from Vertere, when the time comes. :silenced:

Whoops!

:silenced: :silenced:

 

[BenLaw]

Specifically designed to unearth audiophile performance from your Laptop, Tablet or Smartphone. D-Fi will make your portable listening experience a little more personal.

The Double D variation of Vertere's 5-Star Pulse D-Fi USB cable may look similar, but it uses double the amount of coppor conductors, thereby isolating the power and data transmission respectively and allowing for an even better signal.

The Vertere Acoustics USB cable is designed to connect your laptop or PC / MAC to a wide range of audio devices such as a standalone DAC or a USB input on an existing Hi-Fi component. The Pulse D-Fi construction facilitates the transmission of data between devices with minimal interference. If your input device is Asynchronous USB compatible, this cable will breathe new life into your listening experience.

With teflon insulated coppor conductors that will neither inhibit or colour the sound, and a striking silver braid with a transparent PVC outer jacket, the D-Fi range offers a performance that belies its modest price.

I'd prefer it if they could spell 'copper'...

 

[richardw42]

Where else will these audio vile companies identify an opportunity to take our cash.

Perhaps they could badge up an air filter, this will remove any impurities / pollution from the air that will improve Wi Fi streaming. And thus improve audio on wireless streamers. Mind you if you can think of it, it probably exists already

 

[Covenanter]

A USB cable (Just like any digital interconnect) DOES NOT and I repeat DOES NOT carry any audio or video, only Digital Data, therefore all this talk of sound change is poppycock. (Studio engineers and professionals usually fall over laughing when they hear Hi Fi users talking rubbish like that)

So to sum up, there is NO difference in sound or video between a £5 USB cable and a $600 cable, if you don’t believe me, try a blind test between the two and I can guarantee 100% that you will not hear any difference.

Bill

Absolutely correct BUT that won't stop people from hearing a difference.

Chris

 

[bigboss]

Perhaps they could badge up an air filter, this will remove any impurities / pollution from the air that will improve Wi Fi streaming. And thus improve audio on wireless streamers. Mind you if you can think of it, it probably exists already

Got to patent it before anyone else does! :type:

 

[bigboss]

This already exists

http://phys.org/news/2012-12-boeing-spuds-in-air-wi-fi.html

 

[Crossie]

To believe that expensive USB cables make any difference you need to suspend all rational, scientific thought. Considering that the very devices connected by USB cables were designed and manufactured using rational, scientific thought it makes no sense to spend any extra money on cables with no ration, scientific explanation as to why they work.

The "you need to try it" argument simply does not hold water. No matter how many USB cables I hear there will always be another one to listen to before I can say they don''t improve sound quality over cheap cables. Its a bit like saying you need try astrology, scientology or homeopathy before you are allowed to dismiss them as quackery. :wall:

Sorry rant over. Save your money buy some beer and CD's. I'm going for a lie down.

 

[andyjm]

As I posted before, there are actually good engineering reasons why (under certain conditions - a USB powered DAC and / or synchronous data transfer) the quality of the cable and connectors may make a difference.

I am amazed that on a website where people bang on about mains cables, swapping switching supplies for linear, different sounding speaker cables (all without engineering merit), that the importance of a good clean supply and a nice jitter free bitstream for the D2A chip seem to carry such little weight.

As was linked to earlier, you can indeed engineer around this. Porsche have had the engine in the wrong place on the 911 for nearly 50 years. They have done a great job of engineering around this, but the engine is still in the wrong place. Think what they could of done if the engine was in the right place....

The same is true of DACs. You want a clean supply and stable bitstream. The way to get this is to have a local DAC clock, async data transfer and a nice clean supply. In this case the quality of the USB cable, streamer (or mains cable...) wont matter one jot.

You can make a DAC powered off a USB cable, deriving its clock from the incoming data, spend your engineering effort trying to clean up the supply and data but the quality of power supply and pulse stability will still matter, and that still MAY be impacted by the USB cable.

The moral is to buy an async DAC with a local supply and not worry about the USB cable.