USB AMP

[roogii]

- I currently have a Cambridge Topaz AM5 setup.

I want to get rid of CD, vinyl players - I want to simply run FLAC files from a laptop media system, into an amp and out some speakers. I would like the Amp to be as simple as possible - literally all I would want is a USB input (no other connections required), speaker out, and a volume control >> am I to assume there is probably nothing that simple on the market?

I do need some verification on playing FLAC into an amp though -

I currently could connect my laptop into my AM5 amp via headphone out and AUX-phono in. Is there much to gain over this by using an external USB DAC > AUX-phono in? Following from that is there much to gain by completley avoiding the anologue AUX-phono cabling by having the USB-digital stream straight into the amp?

 

[andyjm]

If you want a minimal setup, there are active speakers with USB inputs, so no amp required. Others may be able to advise on what is the best manufacturer to use.

PC AUX out is never going to be the pinacle of audio fidelity, it is a cramped, electrically noisy environment in a PC, and the money gets spent elsewhere when designing a PC. You would definitely do better to use an external DAC.

It does make sense to have the DAC in the amp - less clutter and more cost efficient. Or as I mention above, why not have the DAC and the amp in the speaker?

 

[mitadoc]

I have the same problem like you - I need an am with an USB socket. Denon MD39 is a kind of solution but I need more watts.

 

[davedotco]

I have the same problem like you - I need an am with an USB socket. Denon MD39 is a kind of solution but I need more watts.

No, the MD39 is not a solution, it is not suitable for usb connection to a computer.

To the OP.

A simple, high performance system along the lines you require would be to use the Audioengine D1, a usb/dac/pre-amp (£130-140) directly into a pair of active speakers.

Active speakers start at around £129 for these...

Studiospares Seiwin 5a fully active monitors, plenty of other options if you want to pay more for better performance.

 

[CarlDW]

If you wanted to keep your existing speakers, I would suggest the Cambridge Audio 351A. This amp has a built-in USB connection and I think is around £250 at the minute.

Otherwise, the active speaker/dac suggestion previously mentioned would be an effective route to go down.

 

[davedotco]

If you wanted to keep your existing speakers, I would suggest the Cambridge Audio 351A. This amp has a built-in USB connection and I think is around £250 at the minute.

Otherwise, the active speaker/dac suggestion previously mentioned would be an effective route to go down.

Possibly the cheapest amp around at the moment that will handle a computer via usb.

Very modest spec dac though, doesn't reclock the incoming data and has no other digital inputs.

For really good performance and a decent feature set, I think you have to pay more, Nad D3020 maybe.

 

[Dommer]

Why not have a look at the KEF A300 active speakers. They have a 24bit/96 DAC and AMP built in, So you just connect them via USB. Simple and clean. They look great and sound very good indeed. I'm using a pair at work/studio and they're better than anything I've heard in that price range.

 

[JoelSim]

Just get some Nocs NS2 Air Monitors. WiFi & Bluetooth active speakers. They can also be set up to use multi-room. Basically stream straight from your laptop or phone.

 

[davedotco]

Just get some Nocs NS2 Air Monitors. WiFi & Bluetooth active speakers. They can also be set up to use multi-room. Basically stream straight from your laptop or phone.

Just one of several similar products such as Q Acoustics BT3 and the rest.

Nice complete solution, ideal for the non-enthusiast. Put some effort in and you can do much better for the same or lower price.

The Seiwin 5a / Dac 1 suggestion above costs about the same but offers far more performance wise.

 

[roogii]

Interesting, the active speaker idea is a new one for me.

OK so definitely will be needing an external from CPU DAC as a baseline.

I like the look of the NOCS - but my setup will be single and stationary so do not need wireless - and I'd assume there is potential for connectivity signal issues that I do not need to deal with.

I am liking the idea of the active speakers though - my system sits on top of a cabinet by itself, and without a central amp it will look a little strange with 2 speakers sat by themselves. (the media laptop will more than likely travel, but even with just a laptop set between 2 speakers will look a bit odd - "naff"?)

In terms of DAC-USB amps there is the CA (modest DAC as mentioned so not sure worth the upgrade price) , the NAD which to me I can not do based on looks (broadband modem?!), or CYRUS (£££) // I am sure there are more but with so much to wade through any more USB native amp suggestions would be welcome. They are all over connectable for what I need though, literally one usb input would be plenty.

So the two active speaker options are clearlly closer to what I need in practice.

Daves seperate DAC and active speaker combo is a much cheaper combo than the KEF all in ones. A question here: assuming both the DAC in question here were exactly the same, would the one built into the speaker offer better performance? I have no idea what happens in the electricals post a DAC but with the extra cabling of the external DAC setup, is it both much the same OR will you always be better with as little external cabling as possible?

The KEF look decent- but maybe a bit pretty for my liking, not sure i like the rippling (technical term for the visual appearance) // interesting though...Anything similar in function just simpler in style?

So I defintely got a few directions to go in, not sure exactly any of them are right yet, so if there are any more let me know! thankyou.

 

[SteveR750]

Dacmagic using the ASIO driver. Cheap as it gets for a PC sourced system, and a good quality DAC. Ebay is full of used examples around £100 - £150. Bit more and you might get the DM+

 

[davedotco]

Dacmagic using the ASIO driver. Cheap as it gets for a PC sourced system, and a good quality DAC. Ebay is full of used examples around £100 - £150. Bit more and you might get the DM+

Decent enough but you can buy a Dacmagic 100 for £129 new, maybe a bit over complex for what the OP wants, no level control either, which may or may not be of importance. The Audioengine D1 comes closer to the OP's minimalist asperations than anything else I can think of.

Personally I would prefer the convenience of an outboard dac to having usb speakers, gives a much wider choice too. I'm sure the KEFs would be rather good, though not likely to match the power and punch of 'pro' active speakers at similar prices. The presentation is a little more 'hi-fi' too, your choice whether that is preferable or not.

 

[roogii]

So I have decided to go with Daves plan, a simple external DAC and active speaker setup.

The Dacmagic like Dave said has too much going on for what I need, needs to be externally powered, has no level control nor headphone jack. I like the idea of having a DAC that also does headphones, and the preamp control will be useful for controlling volume out of both the headphones and active speakers I assume - or is that line control only active for headphone out? Anyway, that is the route I am going to take, allows me to upgrade speaker/DAC setup be keeping them seperate too.

So in terms of DAC / speaker. The audioengine looks pretty much on the mark, did a little browsing and come across the arcam rpac and ifi nano // any more that are along the same lines I can look at?

Speaker> Dave in another thread I saw you mention the Yamaha HS8 I think, they are hitting the mark closer than the Seiwin. Is there anything in the same price range as the Yamaha to contend and take into consideration?

 

[davedotco]

So I have decided to go with Daves plan, a simple external DAC and active speaker setup.

The Dacmagic like Dave said has too much going on for what I need, needs to be externally powered, has no level control nor headphone jack. I like the idea of having a DAC that also does headphones, and the preamp control will be useful for controlling volume out of both the headphones and active speakers I assume - or is that line control only active for headphone out? Anyway, that is the route I am going to take, allows me to upgrade speaker/DAC setup be keeping them seperate too.

So in terms of DAC / speaker. The audioengine looks pretty much on the mark, did a little browsing and come across the arcam rpac and ifi nano // any more that are along the same lines I can look at?

Speaker> Dave in another thread I saw you mention the Yamaha HS8 I think, they are hitting the mark closer than the Seiwin. Is there anything in the same price range as the Yamaha to contend and take into consideration?

There are plenty of options on the dac front, the rPac is good value at £100, but has a fixed line level out, as I think does the Nano. Of course you can control volume from the software player but some prefer to have a 'proper' volume knob.

If not having a volume control works for you, my setup works like this, then the rPac is somewhat cheaper than the other options and can be picked up easily from Richers.

The speaker options, just take a look at what is on offere from the pro dealers, try Studiospares, DV247 in the uk and Thomann or Music Store in europe. First up, size and power is dictated by positioning, for desktop use a 5inch bass driver is about as big as you can sensibly use, if you using proper hi-fi stands the bigger speakers will be fine.

There are probably a dozen or more brands that make suitable product, look for Yamaha HS, Presonus Eris, Adam Audio and the Equator D5, a favourite of mine. Look for deals too, sometimes you might get offers on returned stock or discontinued models, have a look and let me know what you like.

 

[Vladimir]

Behringer UCA202 is all you need. If you want more luxury build you can upgrade later.

 

[davedotco]

Behringer UCA202 is all you need. If you want more luxury build you can upgrade later.

The UCA202 has worked very well for me in a number of situations and is ridiculously good for the money. However, as has been pointed our by another forum member, it is not asyncronous so can be affected by the quality of the computer output. This is a variable I do not know enough about in this case.

The headphone amp is not very good either, a high output impedence causes significant issues with cans of a lowish impedance, around 50 ohms say.

 

[dim_span]

get a small Class-T Amp .... such as this one for £60:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400790527922?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Add a Behringer DAC (£17) ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381042178068?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Total spent will be approx £77 .... There are cheaper Class T amps aswell

 

[dim_span]

... and to the above, add an old pair of Wharefdale Diamond 9.1 speakers (approx £50) and you will have a good sounding system

 

[Vladimir]

However, as has been pointed our by another forum member, it is not asyncronous so can be affected by the quality of the computer output. This is a variable I do not know enough about in this case.

It has been measured by NwAvGuy, tested by thousands of users and has no issues with being isochronous, zero reported issues worldwide. Plugs in, works. It's a non-issue with Windows XP, 7 and 8.

The headphone amp is not very good either, a high output impedence causes significant issues with cans of a lowish impedance, around 50 ohms say.

The rubbish headphone amp is least of its worries. When I look at the plastic case and see the Behringer logo, I feel a strong urge to drink a glass full of antidepressants. As long as I don't look at it and I don't use the headphone output, it works great as a DAC with proper RCAs. I power mine with external 5V linear PSU because the switching PSU in my PC is absolute noisy *******************************.

 

[davedotco]

However, as has been pointed our by another forum member, it is not asyncronous so can be affected by the quality of the computer output. This is a variable I do not know enough about in this case.

It has been measured by NwAvGuy, tested by thousands of users and has no issues with being isochronous, zero reported issues worldwide. Plugs in, works. It's a non-issue with Windows XP, 7 and 8.

The headphone amp is not very good either, a high output impedence causes significant issues with cans of a lowish impedance, around 50 ohms say.

The rubbish headphone amp is least of its worries. When I look at the plastic case and see the Behringer logo, I feel a strong urge to drink a glass full of antidepressants. As long as I don't look at it and I don't use the headphone output, it works great as a DAC with proper RCAs. I power mine with external 5V linear PSU because the switching PSU in my PC is absolute noisy *******************************.

The dac could have issues with a high jitter output, this is a function of it's design. That no one seems to have any problems with it simply reinforces it's superb value for money, it does not mean that it will not have problems though, maybe in this case.

The OP also expressed a desire for a decent headphone output, hence my suggestions.

I am intregued by you use with an external psu, how have you configued that given the single usb input? Definitely worth knowing how to do this, computer psus can be notoriously noisy in hi-fi applications.

 

[Vladimir]

I'll link to his measurements. NwAvGuy review of Behringer UCA202.

Jitter at -120dB. I personally cannot hear it.

Regardless, the headphones and the looks are quite poor and will not suite the OP.

 

[dim_span]

if the OP wants to use headphones, why not just plug them into his apple iphone (or whatever phone he is streaming with?) ...

 

[davedotco]

I'll link to his measurements. NwAvGuy review of Behringer UCA202.

Jitter at -120dB. I personally cannot hear it.

Regardless, the headphones and the looks are quite poor and will not suite the OP.

The jitter will be dependent on the (computer) source. The test was not done using the OP's computer, so we have no idea of what the results would be like had he done so, that is the point.

What have the looks got to do with it?

Still interested how you wire it up using an external psu.

 

[Vladimir]

If you don't mind splicing the USB cable to cut of the 5V rail, cut the ground wire, and hook up the LPSU on it, you don't need a powered hub. I went with a USB hub as a more elegant solution and quite versatile. I can plug any DAC I want and it will work. I can even charge my phone on it or plug several DACs.

P.S. I apologize for hijacking the OPs thread with DIY.

 

[davedotco]

I have an old Commodore 64 brick linear power supply. I measured it with a digital multimeter and it works great, regardless of age, so I decided to experiment. It works in Class A and gets quite hot all the time, regardless if there is a power user switched to it. It measures very stable 5V and 1.5A, which is good enough for USB 3.0.

I bought a powered USB hub and of course it came with a cheap generic phone charger. however, I used the Commodore 64 PSU to power the USB hub.

I used 2 small bits of tape to isolate the power and ground rails in the USB Type A plug that goes in the back of my PC. This means when I plug the USB hub to the PC, it only gets the 2 rails for data and is electrically isolated from the grounding and doesn't use the PC USB 5V that come from the nasty switching PSU.

Using a powered USB hub also helps maintain the integrity of the data signal sent through the data rails, which means you can use longer USB cables without getting intermitent signal. The USB hub works both as a repeater and power source in this case.

I then plug my USB powered DAC in the hub and it works. The hub receives 1.5A current if required by the DAC, which is nice with headphones and very peaky dynamic digital recordings.

Does it help?

Fortunatly the test is simple and doesn't require ABX. You listen with everything turned all the way up and without any music playing. The rubbish I could hear while the DAC was powered from my PC was not insignificant, like I was hearing AM radio. I plug it in the hub and I got less noise and louder + cleaner output.

Since the Commodore brick did a nice job, I decided to order a new LPSU at 5V and I'll see how that one works out. The brick is a bit fugly TBH. That vintage computer yellowish gray that used to be white...

Anyways, one quirk with this. It's recommended to have the LPSU powered by the UPS that you use for your PC to prevent shutdown during power outages. Remember we cut off the 5V rail from the PC USB source.

Thanks, banter aside, that is genuinely interesting, though I was hoping for a more elegant solution.

As I have said elswhere, I sometimes get asked to help out friends and friends of friends with their hi-fi issues and have used the UCA202 on several occasions to get decent quality music out of the desktop computers, avoiding their wretched onboard soundcards, with consistently good results. I was hoping for a possible upgrade for them but your solution is a little bit ott for the non expert.

I thought it might be useful for the usb powered Audio Engine too.