Thoughts on improving the bass at low levels !

[AJM1981]

Older vintage amps does sound alot more different than modern amps, some even has frequencys to choose from in the highs and lows, not just a fixed value

I once read an article about the loudness button. It seems static but it follows a curve up till a volume at which there is enough presence from the volume itself and kind of transposes to "normal mode". Owners of bookshelf speakers really take advantage from it. But when owning large cabinet speakers the button doesn't add much value as the cabinet size shows its benefits without aids.

 

[gasolin]

But when owning large cabinet speakers the button doesn't add much value as the cabinet size shows its benefits without aids.

That's why i knew i had to go bigger not just add a subwoofer

 

[gasolin]

I once read an article about the loudness button. It seems static but it follows a curve up till a volume at which there is enough presence from the volume itself and kind of transposes to "normal mode". Owners of bookshelf speakers really take advantage from it. But when owning large cabinet speakers the button doesn't add much value as the cabinet size shows its benefits without aids.

I remember the first ps audio sprout and the later 100 do have a bass boost at 70hz which suits most small speakers, it's on all the time and you have to disable it to get the most clean and flat response.

That one amp shouldn't need any help in that apartment

Theres also the fact when a amp,speaker combo is much cleaner and controlled in the bass, it often can sound like less bass, do to control and less bomminess. In my case i think it's more the speaker than the amp

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYC1UGSP6eY

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LemAS22pRk&t

 

[AJM1981]

That's why i knew i had to go bigger not just add a subwoofer

Something like the Wharfedale Lintons or the Klh model 5

 

[gasolin]

Not for me, way to big and way to expensive

 

[gasolin]

Just for fun i hooked my nad c 717 up to the missions

 

[gasolin]

OMG

My nad C 717 distroys my Yamaha in turns balance between the highs and lows, the yamaha sound brighter and slighty ever so thin in the bass,my nad is a little warmer sounding and more comfortable highs at high levels , playing some dynamic music fairly loud, the highs is not to much in your face, it's just loud, if it's to loud turn the volume down.

Im a little surprised it can play that loud only rated at 20/30 watt in 6 ohm (class d)

Harry James The Harry James sessions and Jimmy Smith The Cat

I was wrong, i need something better than my yamaha A-S301

 

[AJM1981]

There are many ways.

Probably the difference in bass handling is a difference between series. My Yamaha Wxa50 is praised for its control over bass. I dont know about your budget, but might be worth checking out.

 

[gasolin]

I have to sell somthing before i buy something expensive i also want to avoid external source selctor boxes and phonostage.

My yamaha amp sounds fine with my lx 2 in the bass, not so as good with my lx 3 mk II,

The yamaha get a little earlier brighter than whats normal for the amp, change sound chararteristic earlier than my nad which keeps it's tonal balance much closer to it's limit

For an all in one system with modest power the bass is good

Have bought a used nad 3020i, im gonna get it recaped if needed, when i have the money for it.

Might buy a second nad amp if i can hear the nad 3020i needs to be recapped

 

[gasolin]

My nad all in one system did help alot in the bass and im going that way since nad does it better in the bass than yamaha.

it's strange i don't feel the need for more power + at the same it maintaince it's tonal balance when increasing the volume, a commen problem with many amps, they start to get to much in the highs,don't maintaine there tonal balance when turning the volume up.

The nad 3020i im expecting to get tomorrow is very expensive if i want to recap it and it's fairly old, 25+ years, so it might need to be recaped.

I there for am looking for a newer nad amp in case i need one

 

[gasolin]

My nad c 717 is surprisingly good at not changing tonal balance when you turn the volume up , the bass is good and it can be loud.

As in a danish thread about the 3020, it doesn't do anything really good but it doesn't do anything wrong and that makes it a good amp, as mention the tonal balance between the highs and lows are really good,not to much highs and not to little bass

Mission LX 3 MK II with it's rated 8 ohm going down to 4 and 88db sensitivity 40hz -6db is a good match

 

[gasolin]

I just have to receive the amp, i should have gotten the amp yesterday

As mentioned in #34 i might buy a second nad amp if i feel the 3020i need to be recaped

 

[gasolin]

Nad 3020i finally received

 

[gasolin]

Theres an update

I did use for like 2½ moth a yamaha A-S301 that had it all but now using a Cambridge Audio AXA25

On paper a huge differrence especially in power, it's actually the same price, the yamaha has a remote control, digital in and a phonostage that the AXA25 doesn't have, both have auto off, the yamaha has am 8 hour no music off, where the cambrigde amp has an only 20 min without music before it's turns it self of, which is much better.

How much better the AXA35 is i don't know but a lot more expensive for something extra i have (phonostage) or don't need with only 10 extra watt.

To mention the biggeste con, is crosstalk, as huge or more than a NAD C316BEE,only having one unit,source sending sounds to the amp or else at high levels when theres a pause in the music like 1-2 min on some records at the end (last song) and then theres music, you can notice it from the other unit, source, real dissapointing since my yamaha amp doesn't have it at all, a remote control ,digital in and a phonostage for 2695 of my currency where both costing the same with only a differnce less than 5 of my currency (1 euro), impressive how yamaha can do it, much cheaper than the nad c316bee v2 that has gone up in price since it was released, by atleast 50%, yes 50% within the last 3-4 years, 2299 in 2018 , now 3499 of my currency, 100 euros is 744 of my currency .

It looks very basic and only comes in the cambridge audio perfered version of silver, grey (im a black dude)

My Mission LX 3 MK II is rated at 88 db and 8 ohm going down to 4.1 ohm, the amp is only rated at 25 watt in 8 ohm, nothing mentioned about 20-20khz or 1khz, just 25 watt (into 8 ohm), it's nothing less than a Nad 3020i or the very expensive Sugden a21 or some of the nelson pass first watt F4,F5 or F6.

I can truely say that this amp like the small nad 3020 amps, it's super power full, it's not just a 25 watt into 8 ohm amps, it's got power beyond avarage, it surpasses my yamaha A-S301 since it feels as power full as the yamaha BUT improves on the bass and doesn't like the yamaha gets brighter when playing loud, just louder.

My M-audio solo soundcard is nothing special but sounds good and have adjustable gain (output), set to 7 out of 10 i can on many song go as fare as 12 o'clock on the volume knob without any distortion, not the case with my yamaha amp,pushed to 1 o'clock i get an immediately impression of a more punchy sound,bass, still without any distortion worth mention, no way this is an only 25 watt amp.

How does it sound ? (spoiler allert, it sound amazing)

Theres is somehow better bass at low levels than my yamaha amp, at 1 o'clock the bass sounds super punchy like it has some kind over overdrive at that volume, with my sound card (output) at 7, it's more spacious airy sounding, somehow despite the power difference sounds more dynamic, slighty faster, theres a better balance between the highs and low, the amoung of bass vs highs that just makes it sound better than my yamaha amp, good depth,soundstage.

It for shure surpasses many alot more expensive amps, i think you might get better sound from a audiolab 6000a or rega brio r, those are alot more expensive, im not even shure a rotel a11 tribute sounds noticeable better, so expect to pay atleast 3 times as much to get a better sounding amp , cost in my country what's equal to 363 euros or 383 usd, in some countrys like australia it's 427 euros or 451 usd

Im not shure if my yamaha amp is doing anything better (sound quality)

Detalis: Some say it need to be on for a couple of hours for the highs til get less rolled off, if it's ony for a new amp of generally i don't know, since i only got the amp yesterday, how ever after 1-2 hours i think theres an amoung of details you need to hear to get most out of any music without being super analytic,intrusive in the highs, to get every last detail

While typing this i was listening to this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJi0PhJVk7k