Thoughts on improving the bass at low levels !

gasolin

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My system is good, okay power and when it needs to it can go low (45hz +/-3 db, 40 hz -6db)

I just don't have to much bass at low levels unless im listening to edm kind of music, shure there are active speaker and mabye floorstand speakers that have alot more perceived bass at low levels, so you don't need a subwoofer of need to use tone controls to get enough bass + at the same time don't botttom out when asked to play loud before the the amp reach it's limit

But what kind of system could that be (bookshelf speaker, no subwoofer) ?

I know some has asked for system advise for a system that sounds good at low levels, because they don't play to loud and therefor what it to sound best at low levels, i play alot of different levels,spl so not only do i want to have a system that sounds good at low levels including bass but also when playing loud (90db +).

At low levels i don't feel more preceived bass,punch compare to my Mission LX 2 MK I, in case you don't know it or haven't read my signature, my main speakers are Mission LX 3 MK II (60hz vs 45hz)
 

gasolin

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The other thread was about more power at high levels which i got (also in the bass), i just feel my system is a litte subtle or thin in the bass at low levels, almost like a car with more power at high levels and a higher top speed but is lacking tourqe at low levels.

I know some systems can sound good in the bass not just loud but also at low levels, im just not shure what i need (no subwoofer or tone control) for my system to give me that impression, im feeling the amp might not have enough tourqe at low levels to make the bass get up and going, you know those system where you need a littel power (turn the volume up) to get the music going, to make it sound at it's best
 

SteveH72

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I’m sorry but this is rather pointless. You’ve got threads all over different forums asking for advice. People give you lots of ideas which you then dismiss - quite rudely - because you’ve seen a YouTube video or read a review which differs. You get a piece of kit which you say is great but are then dissatisfied within 2 to 3 days and the process begins again. Get to a dealer, listen and trust your ears and not what a load or random internet bods think.
 
I’m sorry but this is rather pointless. You’ve got threads all over different forums asking for advice. People give you lots of ideas which you then dismiss - quite rudely - because you’ve seen a YouTube video or read a review which differs. You get a piece of kit which you say is great but are then dissatisfied within 2 to 3 days and the process begins again. Get to a dealer, listen and trust your ears and not what a load or random internet bods think.
I am glad someone got that in before me..
He has to realise by now that you cannot get a system that will do everything on a limited budget. Yes you can get one that is better than others if you start with the right speakers but that's about it.
As you say audition, and preferably in your own home, is the only way to get something that will satisfy some of your requirements.
 

gasolin

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Well, when you get new hifi you must get over the periode where it's new, where you are excited about the new product you bought, where you listen differently to what you bought, if theres something your concerned about with the piece you bought together with the rest of your system in your room, you have to ask.

I do remember some has talked about the product they listen to and bought, don't sound as good at home as in the store
 
Well, when you get new hifi you must get over the periode where it's new, where you are excited about the new product you bought, where you listen differently to what you bought, if theres something your concerned about with the piece you bought together with the rest of your system in your room, you have to ask.

I do remember some has talked about the product they listen to and bought, don't sound as good at home as in the store
this is precisely why we are advising you and others to audition at home if at all possible...
 

Oxfordian

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this is precisely why we are advising you and others to audition at home if at all possible...
@gasolin I will vouch for the demo at home, it really works.

Last year I effectively started again with my system, everything was demo’d at home, my dealer was awesome lending me the kit to test over 4-6 weeks before I had to make a final decision. I demo’d stuff that YT said was brilliant I didn’t like it, stuff that my dealer said was good, it wasn’t and stuff that we just tried to see if would give an indication of direction, the only constant throughout were the speakers as the dealer was adamant that they would work beautifully in my small listening room we just needed to get the other kit to work with them.

My signature shows what I ended up with, I love the sound I get from this combination, speak to dealers and see which ones are going to help you with home demo’s, it is the best way.

Good luck.
 
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gasolin

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I din't have to pay extra for shipping, i don't have to pay for returning them, i will get the full amount back i payed. 30 days buy & try periode

The are much cheaper than any places in uk,europe, i like my LX 2 mk I, i wanted more power and they have it with my amp.

Where i bought my amp they don't have speakers i want, klipsch, system audio (to much highs),polk low budget is not something i want, where i bought my mission lx 3 MK II they don't have yamaha amps
 

gasolin

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No

I want the combo of my amp,speaker to sound better,of a little more in the bass at low levels.

When you go up i size and newer model, you somehow expect more in the bass

Do you even know if my amp has a loudnes function ?
 
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AJM1981

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My system is good, okay power and when it needs to it can go low (45hz +/-3 db, 40 hz -6db)

I just don't have to much bass at low levels unless im listening to edm kind of music,
If you want a maximum bass extension, a sub that go can deep is the way. Altough I get the idea that you don't want extend the bass to depths but push what is already there. Most Edm just pushes certain lower frequencies that your speakers can already handle. If that is what you want, there is no need to change or perhaps search for an upscaled version of your current speakers to get more kick out of it.

shure there are active speaker and mabye floorstand speakers that have alot more perceived bass at low levels, so you don't need a subwoofer of need to use tone controls to get enough bass + at the same time don't botttom out when asked to play loud before the the amp reach it's limit

But what kind of system could that be (bookshelf speaker, no subwoofer) ?
I personally think it is a bit odd to exclude the sub as an option when bass extension comes to mind. So I guess it is just about pumping the frequencies that are already there as mentioned.

I know some has asked for system advise for a system that sounds good at low levels, because they don't play to loud and therefor what it to sound best at low levels, i play alot of different levels,spl so not only do i want to have a system that sounds good at low levels including bass but also when playing loud (90db +).

At low levels i don't feel more preceived bass,punch compare to my Mission LX 2 MK I, in case you don't know it or haven't read my signature, my main speakers are Mission LX 3 MK II (60hz vs 45hz)
Audition anything with punchy bass. Just beware that a speaker that has some properties might do well with the music you mentioned and sound a bit off on other styles. You can't expect a heavy colored system to be the holy grail.
 
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gasolin

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I don't need deeper bass. deeper bass is just a nice bonus.

I want a little more power so if im playing loud im not bottoming out the bass (woofer) a combination of sensitivity,bass extension,woofer size,power handling.

EDM can easily make the woofer,bass move alot so the system reach it's max excursion (or close to it) before the amp, midrange and highs reach it's power limit.

If you take in account that the woofer in a 2 way system with one tweeter and one woofer/bass, with my amp somtimes could play louder before theres a limit to the spl in the mids and highs, if it weren't for the bass, being edm you don't want to lower the bass to either play louder or play a little cleaner, often you like the amount of bass compared to pop/rock.

I don't want to spend money on a subwoofer, in most cases with a sub out on an amp it doesn't take the load,bass out of the front speakers AND besides the space problems most subs have to be big in order to add enough (more) bass,not just bass extension, to be an good enough addition to your system to justify spending money on a subwoofer.

I just don't need that extra when playing pop/rock music, if the frequency responce from the speakers are good,that i would want a subwoofer

Theres also the problem of having to get out the listening position to make adjustmenst on the bass,subwoofer all the time and then going back and listen.

The Mission LX 3 MK II might sound cleaner in the bass than my Mission LX 2 MK I but not really offering any perceived more bass at normal levels (a little lacking) it might be perceived as a little deeper when you play those songs with alot of deep bass and when playing loud theres is a little more oomph, higher limit before there is no more power.

Even when it goes a little deeper than the Kef LS50 Metas, you still have the feeling that at low levels they both should play with more puch,noticeable bass than they do, the LX 3 MK II because it's a bigger speaker and the metas beacuse it's a high end speakers you just want a little more

Considering the size difference you would expect the LX 3 MKII to outperform the metas a low levels, it just doesn't buuy a long mile with pop,rock but im shure it's much better when playing loud.

I have had cheap speakers with a lot of punch in the bass so it's not a matter of price or my room
 

AJM1981

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In a nutshell.

*You aren't searching for bass extension, though it would be a little plus. But not necessary.
* You would just like some more punch / oomph/ kick from your system. Bass knob turning is a no go
*The speaker upgrade within the same series doesn't give the desired result.
*EDM utilizes the effect you would like to reach, but you would like to have it applied to other music (pop / rock) .

sounds like a desired curve in the low registers of your current speaker or another one that is similar.

When I read the 5 star What Hifi review about your current speakers it should already be able to do that as they are even noted for their ability to punch by the reviewer . Have you experimented with placing them closer to a wall (especially if they are back ported) ?

Then mentioning the LS50 is another thing. That is a whole different kind of speaker. To put it in the simplest description, it does best for vocals. and Kef even sounds a sub for it.

Maybe you need to have a look at other punchy speakers (Magnat?) or an equalizer, or loudness button or a bass boost button as mentioned? Normally ideal for lowest of listening volumes to compensate for the perceivement of loss of bass and treble.

Just take note that when you spice up your bass register for pop and rock, your EDM dance music might suddenly feel bloated as tracks already have certain properties on their own.
 

AJM1981

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Nothing wrong with loudness switches by the way. I sporadically use the loudness switch of my 70s pioneer amp. Loudness is a bit of a misnomer here for the idea behind it. Would perhaps call it "presence"

Like now, I have the volume quite low because our child is sleeping nearby and with the switch to loudness the music sounds more present without being loud.

I discovered that the switch can also be ideal for certain tv broadcasts or older movies.

most amps have something similar even when it is not there. My Arylic A50? has a bass boost that more or less does the same. The Yamaha Wxa50 and similar amps have auto EQ (normally on bypass.

if these low volumes are going to make up most of the time than I am going to give a weird advice. I would then go for Bose. They might not be something that is on the list of audiophiles, but they are doing this kind of presence and "atmospheric audio for lower volumes" really well.
 
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plastic penguin

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Nothing wrong with loudness switches by the way. I sporadically use the loudness switch of my 70s pioneer amp. Loudness is a bit of a misnomer here for the idea behind it. Would perhaps call it "presence"

Like now, I have the volume quite low because our child is sleeping nearby and with the switch to loudness the music sounds more present without being loud.

I discovered that the switch can also be ideal for certain tv broadcasts or older movies.

most amps have something similar even when it is not there. My Arylic A50? has a bass boost that more or less does the same. The Yamaha Wxa50 and similar amps have auto EQ (normally on bypass.
Concur. I've no issues with loudness buttons. Many so-called purists are a bit sniffy when loudness buttons or switches are mentioned. Personally think many modern, higher end amps could benefit from these features.
 

AJM1981

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Concur. I've no issues with loudness buttons. Many so-called purists are a bit sniffy when loudness buttons or switches are mentioned. Personally think many modern, higher end amps could benefit from these features.
There is a supported theory behind the loudness bump that makes them certainly more than a gimmick.

Newer amps have them, altough not labeled as loudness anymore. Search for something like bass boost, double bass or auto eq. Mostly the same thing with a different label.

So far my Quad and Harman Kardon Amp were the only amps without anything similar.
 
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plastic penguin

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There is a supported theory behind the loudness bump that makes them certainly more than a gimmick.

Newer amps have them, altough not labeled as loudness anymore. Search for something like bass boost, double bass or auto eq. Mostly the same thing with a different label.

So far my Quad and Harman Kardon Amp were the only amps without anything similar.
Yep. Just wish my Leema had these features. May not get used very often but always a worthwhile option.
 

AJM1981

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Yep. Just wish my Leema had these features. May not get used very often but always a worthwhile option.
Yes, it is fine

There is only a 'but'..

I noticed that my Wharfedale Evo 4.2 with its large cabinet does not really benefit from it like my Diamond 11.2 does. Even at lower volumes the Evo kind of has a presence on its own. With the Evo a loudness button kind of pushes the natural sound to an artificial one. While in the same way it has a more natural effect on the Diamond. The only times I found it useful with the Evo 4.2 is for some Tv broadcasts and older movies that did terrible in sound mixing.

So cabinet size matters.. and considering a large standmount "like" the Evo 4.2 is perhaps another way :)

Till that time treble and bass are there for low volumes.
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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In a nutshell.

*You aren't searching for bass extension, though it would be a little plus. But not necessary.
* You would just like some more punch / oomph/ kick from your system. Bass knob turning is a no go
*The speaker upgrade within the same series doesn't give the desired result.
*EDM utilizes the effect you would like to reach, but you would like to have it applied to other music (pop / rock) .

sounds like a desired curve in the low registers of your current speaker or another one that is similar.

When I read the 5 star What Hifi review about your current speakers it should already be able to do that as they are even noted for their ability to punch by the reviewer . Have you experimented with placing them closer to a wall (especially if they are back ported) ?

Then mentioning the LS50 is another thing. That is a whole different kind of speaker. To put it in the simplest description, it does best for vocals. and Kef even sounds a sub for it.

Maybe you need to have a look at other punchy speakers (Magnat?) or an equalizer, or loudness button or a bass boost button as mentioned? Normally ideal for lowest of listening volumes to compensate for the perceivement of loss of bass and treble.

Just take note that when you spice up your bass register for pop and rock, your EDM dance music might suddenly feel bloated as tracks already have certain properties on their own.
I tried the bass adjustment, often its at 100hz and the Q is either wide or narrow , like the bottom of an ice cone, very narrow area around 100hz or wider area under and over 100hz that is adjusted when using the bass controls. loudness is adjusting both the bass and the highs

I def prefer a speaker with good bass,frequency response then having to use an eq to get more perceived bass,more oomph,kick from normal pop,rock music, since it often don't sound naturally and effects how much you can turn the volume up when using tone controls

I get the idea,point of having studio monitors with bass adjustments, acoustics space settings (or what ever it's called) i had mine (before i desided i wanted passive speakers) studio monitors at - x db to get a good balance

Just take note that when you spice up your bass register for pop and rock, your EDM dance music might suddenly feel bloated as tracks already have certain properties on their own.

Normal pop,rock at live concerts can be very loud and deep, much more than most hifi systems can play and still sounds good do to the quality of the speakers and a super high dynamic headroom (no distortion).

I would rather have a enough bass playing pop,rock, like those big hifi system with dual mono amps, the ability they have to play enough tight,punchy bass at low levels, even when you don't have eq,tone controls (do to the system being a minimalistic system focused of sound quality not features) not talking about sound quality but that it doesn't sound like a system with a subwoofer off at low levels (you shouldn't hear theres a subwoofer until you turn it off), there are speakers that can do that at low levels, mabye buchardt and when playing edm i might not wanna play so loud since the speaker have alot more kick,oomph at low levels you often only get at high levels or using an eq.

The LX 2+ MK I should have more what the LX 2 MK I has, more bass and higher power handling, it's just a speaker hard to find, it was added later to the range, therefor LX 2+ and not LX 3

The q acoustics 3000 where bright and lacking bass, the 3000 i has alot more bass and less intrusive,bright highs. There can be a huge difference going to the latest model, not just like Marantz PM6005,6006 and 6007 with almost no sonic difference

The new LX mk 2, even in the bigger version, to me do offer a cleaner bass and on paper higher spl but somehow with my amp lacks the bass,the fullness,the kick that some speakers in the same size (6-6.5" woofer) can have at low levels, without using loudness,tonecontrols, like passive buchardts, mabye q acoustics 3030 (very deep speaker"size", hate the silver rings and the somewhat slightly soft upper midrange and lower tweeter i experienced with the 3010i's) or mackie,yamaha,krk studio monitors
 
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gasolin

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Nothing wrong with loudness switches by the way. I sporadically use the loudness switch of my 70s pioneer amp. Loudness is a bit of a misnomer here for the idea behind it. Would perhaps call it "presence"
Older vintage amps does sound alot more different than modern amps, some even has frequencys to choose from in the highs and lows, not just a fixed value
 

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