The Latest Purchase - Onkyo TX-NR818

[Deleted member 2457]

Thanks Andrew, it seems RS actually made a good pick. I am glad for him really, we deserve to enjoy what we purchase with our hard earned money.

I still do not know if I would dare to try yet another AVR specially on the same price range (and even lower)... After so many deceptions, I am at the point of "hearing to believe it" that AVRs can really give good stereo sound so, well, I may need to take the rest of my gear including my sofa to Supersonido next month in my next trip to Bilbao

Pretty sure I've been there! Is it near the port?

There are 2 Supersonido shops actually, one in Bilbao city center and the other in Pletzia near "puerto viejo". I would not say that either of them is in the port but one of them is closer. My wife is from Bilbao, this is why I go there every now and then. Nice city and nice "pinchos".

I have stopped at the port, while I have been on a cruise two or three times now, and always quite liked it. I always check out the local TV and electronic shops. The one I was thinking of though was near the port and was a big electrical store. They seem to sell virtually everything! Massive shop!

No sorry, I think the one I was thinking was in Vigo!

In Bilboa I did shop in a big department store in the centre and when I was there several years back, they had the latest flagship Philips TVs.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Thanks Andrew, it seems RS actually made a good pick. I am glad for him really, we deserve to enjoy what we purchase with our hard earned money.

I still do not know if I would dare to try yet another AVR specially on the same price range (and even lower)... After so many deceptions, I am at the point of "hearing to believe it" that AVRs can really give good stereo sound so, well, I may need to take the rest of my gear including my sofa to Supersonido next month in my next trip to Bilbao

Pretty sure I've been there! Is it near the port?

There are 2 Supersonido shops actually, one in Bilbao city center and the other in Pletzia near "puerto viejo". I would not say that either of them is in the port but one of them is closer. My wife is from Bilbao, this is why I go there every now and then. Nice city and nice "pinchos".

I have stopped at the port, while I have been on a cruise two or three times now, and always quite liked it. I always check out the local TV and electronic shops. The one I was thinking of though was near the port and was a big electrical store. They seem to sell virtually everything! Massive shop!

The most famous cruise in/to Bilbao is called "pride of Bilbao" from Portsmouth to Bilbao (Santurze). This port is a bit far from Bilbao city center but the area is very nice anyway. I am glad you enjoy the place, people are very nice and I always feel very welcomed when I go there. If you go there again you may want to check the store that I have mentioned.

Will do mate - cheers! I just edited my other post too, I was thinking of Vigo I think. In Bilbao I went shopping in the centre and mainly went in big department store shops. Found quite a collection of TVs in one. I often sail from Southampton. Cheers.

 

[rendu]

Thanks Andrew, it seems RS actually made a good pick. I am glad for him really, we deserve to enjoy what we purchase with our hard earned money.

I still do not know if I would dare to try yet another AVR specially on the same price range (and even lower)... After so many deceptions, I am at the point of "hearing to believe it" that AVRs can really give good stereo sound so, well, I may need to take the rest of my gear including my sofa to Supersonido next month in my next trip to Bilbao

Pretty sure I've been there! Is it near the port?

There are 2 Supersonido shops actually, one in Bilbao city center and the other in Pletzia near "puerto viejo". I would not say that either of them is in the port but one of them is closer. My wife is from Bilbao, this is why I go there every now and then. Nice city and nice "pinchos".

I have stopped at the port, while I have been on a cruise two or three times now, and always quite liked it. I always check out the local TV and electronic shops. The one I was thinking of though was near the port and was a big electrical store. They seem to sell virtually everything! Massive shop!

No sorry, I think the one I was thinking was in Vigo!

In Balboa I did shop in a big department store in the centre and when I was there several years back, they had the latest flagship Philips TVs.

UUOOPS! Vigo is on the left.... Far west.

Anyway, for everybody travelling to Spain this summer. Do not come here looking for good or cheap Hi-Fi stuff, unfortunately there is a very small market. You may come come here looking for fun, party, alcohol, girls, etc. but no hi-fi and definetly not at better prices than UK. You are the EMEA king of hi-fi, you can be sure of that but, we are the king of party though... unfortunately this reflects in our economy as well.

 

[the record spot]

I think I feel rather vindicated now...

 

[ID.]

if he's happy with the Onkyo then so be it.

This.

Seeing as I haven't tested with my own ears, I'm skeptical that, personally, I could be as satisfied with an AV amp as a stereo amp. Without casting aspersions on TheRecordSpots ears, I wouldn't take his word as fact (the same way I'd test out kit even if WHF gave it an award). I also have a friend who uses his AVR for his music needs and I thought that it was very satisfactory and I could see how one could be very happy with that, even though I couldn't.

I agree that with the price RS paid for the Onkyo, it is probably giving pretty good value for money in terms of sound quality for price, especially when considering the other functions.

Still, apart from the personal stuff between Rendu and RS, It has been interesting reading his opinions and experiences, which seem to match more closely to my own opinions/prejudices.

Anyway, as you were gentlemen

 

[the record spot]

I think people need to weigh up their wants, needs and if necessary WAF factor into one neat formula.

The 818 isn't going to solve anyone's space limitations, or those looking to have the small or discreet boxes ticked. It won't do it for you if you don't think AV amps can "do" music, though like the Denon DVD3930 universal player before it, if it's good enough for someone who reviews this stuff for a living, plus what I know of Onkyo's pedigree, then it'll do for me.

Oh if you like warm and fuzzy in your playback forget the 818, it'll give detail and a focused and quite neutral playback that doesn't hide much. Not wveryone wants that either.

 

[Overdose]

I know, late to the party and all, but still...

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings, how is it that an AVR can be superb with soundtracks, but only mediocre with music?

If for example, an AVR can deal well with Saving Private Ryan, why would it not be anything but great with Adele?

 

[John Duncan]

Because things cost money. So if you have seven things in a box, those seven things aren't going to be as good as two things in a box for the same price. Generalising. If you think that things sound the same irrespective of how much they cost, then you don't really need to worry.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

 

[hammill]

Because things cost money. So if you have seven things in a box, those seven things aren't going to be as good as two things in a box for the same price. Generalising. If you think that things sound the same irrespective of how much they cost, then you don't really need to worry.

What you say is of course true and if you compare a £1000 2 channel amp with a £1000 AV amp you would expect the 2 channel amp to be better for stereo. However AV amps seem to be replaced every year which means there are often bargains to be found which are not available in the stereo only world. So in this case we have to compare a £1000 AV amp (which was bought for £600) with a £600 stereo amp, so it is not surprising that the AV amp is the best buy, even for stereo.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings, how is it that an AVR can be superb with soundtracks, but only mediocre with music?

If for example, an AVR can deal well with Saving Private Ryan, why would it not be anything but great with Adele?

There are many corners that can be cut in various products and still have a decent level of perceived quality for movies. Music is a little more demanding in this respect and you can't get away with it. If something sounds slightly wrong with a movie soundtrack, the majority of people would more than likely not notice, whereas with music, it sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a little hard to explain, but that's the best I can do

 

[hammill]

If for example, an AVR can deal well with Saving Private Ryan, why would it not be anything but great with Adele?

I doubt that, whatever amp I had, Adele would ever sound great to me

 

[Overdose]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

Generally, yes.

 

[John Duncan]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

Generally, yes.

Whether it is the case or not, is dynamic range the only thing that matters in reproducing movies or music?

 

[Overdose]

Because things cost money. So if you have seven things in a box, those seven things aren't going to be as good as two things in a box for the same price. Generalising. If you think that things sound the same irrespective of how much they cost, then you don't really need to worry.

Cost is not the issue. A movie soundtrack such as that from Saving Private Ryan, will have large dynamic swings during the action sequencies and also will be evident in the music score. Lets not forget a movie soundtrack also includes a fair bit of music.

So, irrespective of cost, if an amp is excellent at playing back a soundtrack, it should follow that it will be equally capable of replaying a less dynamically challenging music recording.

 

[Overdose]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

Generally, yes.

Whether it is the case or not, is dynamic range the only thing that matters in reproducing movies or music?

No, of course not, but the point is that if a far more challenging movie soundtrack sounds excellent, a music recording is not going to be a problem for the same amp is it?

For info, a music recording is considered good if it gets anywhere near a 20dB range, whereas movies are typically 20-30dB.

 

[manicm]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

Generally, yes.

Even if true, for movies you're sharing your attention between audio and video. And then it breaks up further within audio because while an explosion occurs you may or may not be focussing on dialog. And the average viewer (I would fit in this description) is not going to many glaring shortcomings in this respect, because it's actually quite hard to find even an entry-level AV amp that's poor in movie audio playback, thank goodness.

Whereas for music I would agree with David, especially that which is familiar to one, shortcomings will be noticed more readily and profoundly, if only because you don't have video to distract you. Also, I would say music is a more emotional activity than watching movies.

Let me give a simpler explanation - to my mind you're less likely, for example, to notice any innate harshness or brightness in an amp when watching movies than listening to music. Also, action movies which have innate 'loudness' automatically make your experience more 'dynamic' in almost any system. But the same system may not sound so for music when you don't welcome the 'loudness wars'.

 

[Overdose]

Double post

 

[manicm]

Overdose, read my first reply to you. I cannot explain scientifically but I think it's pretty logical. To simplistically summarise, why an AV amp may not sound good with music is because with movies you're 95% being indulged in 'loudness wars', which is more welcome when viewing, but not always welcome with non-visual listening.

To me it's as simple as that.

 

[John Duncan]

Given that movie soundtracks generally have a much greater dynamic range than purely music recordings

Is that a given?

Generally, yes.

Whether it is the case or not, is dynamic range the only thing that matters in reproducing movies or music?

No, of course not, but the point is that if a far more challenging movie soundtrack sounds excellent, a music recording is not going to be a problem for the same amp is it?

For info, a music recording is considered good if it gets anywhere near a 20dB range, whereas movies are typically 20-30dB.

Again you're only focussing on dynamic range. Since distortion is the enemy of everything and measurements are all that matter, perhaps you could find the THD of an average AV receiver compared to a similarly priced stereo amp from the same manufacturer?

 

[Craig M.]

For some reason this springs to mind. Clicky. That is how to compare stuff - level matched direct comparison.

$8,500 Classe pre power against $200 Sony AV amp. With that in mind it doesn't suprise me AV amps can compete against stereo amps.

 

[BigH]

Again you're only focussing on dynamic range. Since distortion is the enemy of everything and measurements are all that matter, perhaps you could find the THD of an average AV receiver compared to a similarly priced stereo amp from the same manufacturer?

So SS amps are much better than tube amps then?

 

[John Duncan]

Again you're only focussing on dynamic range. Since distortion is the enemy of everything and measurements are all that matter, perhaps you could find the THD of an average AV receiver compared to a similarly priced stereo amp from the same manufacturer?

So SS amps are much better than tube amps then?

I have no idea, never having heard a tube (hifi) amp.

 

[John Duncan]

For some reason this springs to mind. Clicky. That is how to compare stuff - level matched direct comparison.

Ah, the bus has arrived...

 

[manicm]

CraigM, sometimes ABX testing, or any structured testing is not required at all. Your example may be valid, but I will once again turn to the first DVD player I bought - a Pioneer in 2002. For movies I wouldn't have known any better cos it sounded real good, when I spinned a CD however I was immediately, completely, comprehensively horrified. It was inferior to my at the time 11 year old Technics CD player which didn't even have a remote, which was used as a quality test mule before I bought it secondhand.

And I didn't need any blind tests whatsoever to come to that conclusion. It was as clear as black and white.