BigH said:
You can also look at the reviews of the A1010, A3010, A1020 and A3020 in WHF if you prefer, they all got 5 stars.
You can also look at the reviews of the A1010, A3010, A1020 and A3020 in WHF if you prefer, they all got 5 stars.
manicm
Well-known member
rendu said:
Which must beg the question: What are they smoking, or have Arcam radically improved their AVR reliability? (I'm not saying their latest ones have not improved but they've had a reputation...). And Arcam AVRs are incredibly expensive, even their entry-level models. And you Spaniards ought to be saving right now
Coming back to AVRs and stereo music reproduction WHF have been impressed by Sony's latest 500 quid model, it could be entirely true that RecordSpot's Onkyo genuinely sounds good, albeit in 'pure audio' mode, but he seems to be generally impressed.
It's the same with my expensive CA751BD player possibly being now outclassed in all respects by much cheaper players.
Also, it's horses for courses really. RecordSpot is happy so kudos to him.
manicm
Well-known member
altruistic.lemon said:
Yes, but if the OP ever decides to dabble in 5.1 he won't be in tears and won't have to lay out more cash on the amp side. And it can always be hidden behind a cabinet.
Like the CD player is dying, I would not be surprised if the dedicated stereo amp also becomes a niche product several years ahead.
Also, which sub-500 quid stereo amp is good looking?? It's only the Marantz that comes to mind. Your CAs and Rotels all look the same. And NAD amps, at any price, are uglier than any AVR amps apart from their own
I am pleased RS that you have found the 818 has exceeded your expectations and that you are very pleased with it. What is important is that you enjoy how it sounds.
I would seriously consider an AVR in the future, even if only used in 2ch mode, because of the extra functionality - Airplay, Wi-Fi, even Bluetooth on the new Onkyo models, plus power to spare and the possibilities for expanding into a 5.1/7.1 etc setup if so inclined.
I even quite like the look of the new Sony AVRs...
I would seriously consider an AVR in the future, even if only used in 2ch mode, because of the extra functionality - Airplay, Wi-Fi, even Bluetooth on the new Onkyo models, plus power to spare and the possibilities for expanding into a 5.1/7.1 etc setup if so inclined.
I even quite like the look of the new Sony AVRs...
rendu said:
I like movies too, but who told you that contemporary AVR amps are solely geared up for movies and nought else? Why are manufacturers like Onkyo and Marantz and others offering network connectivity and onboard music streaming services like Last FM, Spotify or Internet Radio options? Because, to follow your analogy to its logical conclusion, they wouldn't be going anywhere offering those services otherwise if movies were all they were interested in. No, they'd offer Lovefilm, or Netflix, or the like.
rendu said:
Others have mentioned WHF's current 818 review. Here are some others from Hi Fi World's website. Noel Keywood has extensively rated previous Onkyo amps and I subscribe to that title so I've read his reviews over the years and am familiar with Onkyo's pedigree:-
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/av-receivers/39-av-reviews.html
rendu said:
I read that article by coincidence the other day, but the premise is redundant. You could apply the same logic about many of yesterday's amps, speakers, turntables or open-reel decks. You'll also find a load of old dross as well, so there are no absolutes here. Personally, I love Sansui's 700-series amps and think they stack up against anything, but times and needs change.
The author's experience is pretty much neither here nor there. I work as a freelance business analyst and ask questions for a living. Open ones, closed ones, ones that challenge perceptions across a wide range of people. Oh, and I've been listening to audio for about 35 years now, plus another ten on top of that with my mum and dad's old Dansette Viva record player. I've owned a pile of stuff over the last 30 years and so, clearly, I have nothing worth adding to this debate. Clearly. I just question a lot of what is "out there" or is perceived as fact, when really, it's just opinion.
rendu said:
LOL, how many wrong conclusions is it possible for someone to jump to? You have no ideea about me, or made any attempt to do anything but bulldoze what you think of as "reality" to this thread. Sorry, but I ascribe to the theory of "don't believe everything you think". Works for me. Oh, and I've been to a stack of shows over the years, listened to traditional hifi, active systems, analogue, digital and god knows what else. So please don't try and lecture me when you've clearly no idea what you're talking about.
rendu said:
Yes, it's a very good amp. I didn't realise I had "convinced" everyone. I expressed my views, which remain. My opinions now are as they were then, it doesn't offer Master Audio, but it was as close as anything else that delivered all I was after at the time.
rendu said:
Don't let your mouth write a cheque your tail can't cash. Check the web and see how many happy owners of the 8050 there are out there. I think it's listed in the hundreds who have bothered to review the thing or express their opinions on it. The majority of those I read loved it. And yes, I would and do still rate it as "up there" with more expensive amps. However, what people then choose to buy is their issue; I don't spend their money for them and they are responsible for how they do that, not me.
rendu said:
Haha, I'm a bluff am I? Well, better that than spouting the bible on audio and stating some stone age beliefs that are dying out with every passing year. I don't need lectured by some internet troll about what good sound is; got that one covered off nicely thanks - good masterings, good recordings and some great gear to play it on. Shame you can't bring yourself to try out the products you're running down, then I'd have some respect for your views and for you.
richardw42 said:
Yep Richard, I've felt integrated amps lacked what I needed from then for years. With this amp, I can get high quality sound from a variety of sources, onboard DACs, onboard means to biwire thanks to multiple amps, a smart package, build quality that's excellent, get internet access, and much more.
However, for rendu's benefit if no-one else's, I wouldn't have been parting with the money I did if it didn't offer me the sound quality I expect. I don't give two hoots for his opinion, but the logical fallacy he's opted to go for is beyond mirth: why would someone who values good quality sound buy something that didn't offer it and then keep it?!?
rendu said:
Yes, and there's the crux of it. You're not happy with it. But you don't say what you're not happy with beyond spouting the same tired old stuff that audiophiles get fed and buy into. So why would you buy the Onkyo TX-8050? Because I had said it was good? Would you have bought blind? Would you have listened to it first, because rest assured that amp is pretty much an Onkyo AV amp minus the video related functionality.
Here's a tip - you are welcome to your views, but don't tell anyone they're wrong when they've made up theri mind, through a logical and reasoned conclusion that they've reached through their own research and experience. You'll get a far easier time - not least from me, seeing as it's my thread in this case - than you currently are.
matthewpiano said:
Yep, that pretty much sums it up too - nice post Matthew. It's all about enjoying the music for me and I try never to let the equipment get in the way of that. In time, if room and my wants change, I might go down the 5.1 route, but for now, I'm happy with 2 channel. It's done me nicely for a long time and the Tannoys do a fine job of projecting the sound across a wide range. But yes, the amp's excellent and gives me some future-proofing too.
altruistic.lemon said:
As I've stated AL, I want an amp that will deliver good sound to both music and movies as I'll be using it with both. And while it's big, it's a rather sleek looking thing and very black. the pic I posted shows the lower fascia flap open, but I have it shut as the remote is fine. Music, I have no complaints with as my needs - fussy git that I am - are more than met. And what other audiophiles want from their gear is their issue to fix; I simply posted my own views on this fine amp for anyone who might be looking for a user's experience.
rendu said:
Yes, they do and they'r ea guide, but if you buy blind you run the risk. I bought blind this time (as I did with the 8050), but knew that I could return the amp to Richer Sounds within 7 days. I won't be as it gives me what I want, but reviews are just part of the story. I am reminded of a Saxon CD player some years ago that WHF gave 1 star, but Hi Fi World gave 4. Who's right?
rendu said:
So you've derided my buying choices, based on my own conclusions, reasons for buying and wants (not that you know all of them) and you're suggesting that it's not reasonable to think that you're a snob? You may well not be a snob, but you're presaence on this thread to date has been indicative of one.
Was looking at this offer on an email today.....very tempting!!!
I bought a Marantz PM6004 to help with 2 channel music last year, but rarely use my CD player these days. Its on and running the front speakers with tv/blu ray, but wonder if this machine would be a good compromise as a replacement for my denon/marantz combo....especially at this price!!
I bought a Marantz PM6004 to help with 2 channel music last year, but rarely use my CD player these days. Its on and running the front speakers with tv/blu ray, but wonder if this machine would be a good compromise as a replacement for my denon/marantz combo....especially at this price!!
chebby
Well-known member
All right, once more day, the cut and paste avenger is back!
RS, quoting evey single sentence that everyone says does not make you smarter nor does it give you the right on anything. It is only a sign of how pedant you are and reflects your believe of some superiority that you do not have and can not even dream on.
My original comment on this thread was not offensive at all but, I started to get all sort of disrespectful attacks from minute 1. I only showed my surprise about the change you made (because I am heading in the opposite direction after 15 years of AVR experience) then, I mentioned that I may question the 8050 amongst the other options I am currently considering. This is what we use this forums also, to help make decissions based on other people experiences, what is wrong with that? I already have a modern 1400 pound AVR, I know that this is not the sound that I am looking for! Also, it is nearly impossible to test things for some people (I will dedicate a full section a little bit further down).
From the 1 minute after I entered my comment someone entered a comment saying that "my opinion was worthless" when I had not even said anything in particular about either 8050 neither 818. Then you started talking to me in 3rd person (pedant again) quoting me as "our friend". Next to that, replying in very defensive and offensive maner to my original post. Who do you think you are? That is pure harassment, nothing more than that. You are not prepared to hear any oppinion different than yours and anything other than your whole truth becomes "redundant premises". I am tired of guys in forums who start attacking at the first sign of discrepancy and start being disrispectful. Then, of course you started with insults and so on..... the rest of your arguments are gone!
If you do not want me to continue giving you hard time and you can bet that I am not going to stop, start talking like a normal person and we will have dialog.
Regarding the "reduntant premise" that AVRs are not good for music (and you say this with your extensive experience of 5 days with your 1st AVR). Many many many of the fomum members have complained about AVR musicallity over the past decade and those who can, have a separate hi-fi systems in addition to the AVR. I have to agree with you though that "times and needs have changed". We listen to music in a different ways and have different needs. I had to stick with AVRs for 15 years because it is the reallity for me and I have no other choice. This does not mean that the guy in the article is not right about sound. Again, it is very pedant from you and very disrispectful to just get this out of the way with a coment like "old redundant premise". He is completely right but he also starts the article saying "AVRs do not sound bad". What has fundamentally changed is our demanding level in terms of sound, and the references to compare againts with. The new generations (where I am included) are far more interested in features and not so much in sound, there is a compromise. We will continue with the systems as long as the sound is "ok".
To me it has been very frustrating to spend lots of money on AVRs and only get what I consider a "5 start genuine piece of electronic junk" in terms of stereo sound. My experience with all the AVRs that I have owned has been terrible (Onkyo 505, Denon 1602, Onkyo 702, Arcam 280, Yamaha A2010). None of them offered a satisfactory musical performance and I am not talking about comparing to very expensive or high-end systems, that is the sad part. As I mentioned before even the small toy that I use for my computer, the "Sonic T-amp" (http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html) performs more consistent. Everytime I go to a friend´s house who has a normal (even mini hi-fi) system, I come back home saying "why does mine sound so strange"? Everytime I go to visit my parents house and listen to my old "Vieta" , I think, man there is something wrong in today´s hi-fi industry. If you think that this is only me thinking this way or with this bad experiences in AVR you are totally wrong!
Why do I keep it? Simple, it is the best I can have for my budget to meet all my requirements and still have a normal livingroom that my wife will accept; iPod, cinema, FM, subwoofer. I do not have turntable since 15 years and I do not use CDs since 15 years either (another compromise I had to make in terms of SQ ). Basically I am screwed to the junk that AVR industry has to offer me. I know that there could be other potential solutions but very complex. Even my thought about adding the 8050 to the equation would be a nightmare to integrate with the other gear; internet, iPod, remote controls, the harmony, FM, cinema integration, etc.
Testing section........ if you are still alive....
I have seen too many times comments like "you have to test before buying" bla,bla,bla or "before giving an opinion" bla,bla,bla. In a perfect world maybe I could go down the street and test in the shop around the corner and then come back to the forum and give opinions but this is not the case. Let me tell you something about testing:
1 - Many places like where I live there are no hi-fi shops. The closest is 200 Km in Bilbao.
2 - They do not like people going there testing. They only like people going there spending their money.
3 - Even if you can test some.... What exactly are you goint to test and how? It took me 1 month before I configured my current AVR with the rest of my gear to get the best possible sound. Of course I would need to take my speakers, subwoofer, iPod, PS3, ect. Perhaps spend there maybe 1 week with each AVR that I test after I have configured them properly? Then test with all kind of music and of course movies..... This is NOT realistic!!!
You have given before a good example of a CD player that was tested by one magazine and got 1 start and then it got 4 starts with other magazine..... Unfortunately this is the issue with separates.... you can not test them alone... it requires speakers, source, cables, accoustics, etc. Every single test is going to be different.
Ex. your AVR 818 tested by WHF makes a very vage comment about music performace saying that "The Onkyo keeps decent time for a receiver and doesn’t embarrass itself". Definetly all in same line as when they say "it is good for music but, a dedicated amp would do better" (ex. latest sony review).
http://www.whathifi.com/review/onkyo-tx-nr818
More and more people have to rely on magazines and forums to help on the decision making proces because today´s equipment is very complex has lots of functionality and it is nearly impossible to make realistic tests and specally to compare. For the moment I have to rely almost 95 % on testing done by magazine reviews because they have the equipment, the experience, the possibility to compare and the possibility to test. Does this give me perfect results? Definetly not, but I want to think that less bad results than otherwise.
This is a stupid argument and became a non-sense thread. I am really wondering where are the moderators these days. They should have closed this stupid thread already some time ago. Maybe they are on vacation and I do not blame them because it has been a very long winter and I am looking for that as well.
Well, what else can I say man? We can continue arguing forever or we can settle here and, you continue loving your AVR and I continue hating mine and each of us goes to his corner.
It is a beautiful day (at least in Spain) and it is a pitty to waist it like this really.
Come on, let´s make up, give each other some kisses (without toungue) (LOL) and move on. Seriously, we look like 5 year old kids.... By the way, where is the smiley with the white flag?
If you continue with the cut and paste, I am goint to continue... I tell you that....
RS, quoting evey single sentence that everyone says does not make you smarter nor does it give you the right on anything. It is only a sign of how pedant you are and reflects your believe of some superiority that you do not have and can not even dream on.
My original comment on this thread was not offensive at all but, I started to get all sort of disrespectful attacks from minute 1. I only showed my surprise about the change you made (because I am heading in the opposite direction after 15 years of AVR experience) then, I mentioned that I may question the 8050 amongst the other options I am currently considering. This is what we use this forums also, to help make decissions based on other people experiences, what is wrong with that? I already have a modern 1400 pound AVR, I know that this is not the sound that I am looking for! Also, it is nearly impossible to test things for some people (I will dedicate a full section a little bit further down).
From the 1 minute after I entered my comment someone entered a comment saying that "my opinion was worthless" when I had not even said anything in particular about either 8050 neither 818. Then you started talking to me in 3rd person (pedant again) quoting me as "our friend". Next to that, replying in very defensive and offensive maner to my original post. Who do you think you are? That is pure harassment, nothing more than that. You are not prepared to hear any oppinion different than yours and anything other than your whole truth becomes "redundant premises". I am tired of guys in forums who start attacking at the first sign of discrepancy and start being disrispectful. Then, of course you started with insults and so on..... the rest of your arguments are gone!
If you do not want me to continue giving you hard time and you can bet that I am not going to stop, start talking like a normal person and we will have dialog.
Regarding the "reduntant premise" that AVRs are not good for music (and you say this with your extensive experience of 5 days with your 1st AVR). Many many many of the fomum members have complained about AVR musicallity over the past decade and those who can, have a separate hi-fi systems in addition to the AVR. I have to agree with you though that "times and needs have changed". We listen to music in a different ways and have different needs. I had to stick with AVRs for 15 years because it is the reallity for me and I have no other choice. This does not mean that the guy in the article is not right about sound. Again, it is very pedant from you and very disrispectful to just get this out of the way with a coment like "old redundant premise". He is completely right but he also starts the article saying "AVRs do not sound bad". What has fundamentally changed is our demanding level in terms of sound, and the references to compare againts with. The new generations (where I am included) are far more interested in features and not so much in sound, there is a compromise. We will continue with the systems as long as the sound is "ok".
To me it has been very frustrating to spend lots of money on AVRs and only get what I consider a "5 start genuine piece of electronic junk" in terms of stereo sound. My experience with all the AVRs that I have owned has been terrible (Onkyo 505, Denon 1602, Onkyo 702, Arcam 280, Yamaha A2010). None of them offered a satisfactory musical performance and I am not talking about comparing to very expensive or high-end systems, that is the sad part. As I mentioned before even the small toy that I use for my computer, the "Sonic T-amp" (http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html) performs more consistent. Everytime I go to a friend´s house who has a normal (even mini hi-fi) system, I come back home saying "why does mine sound so strange"? Everytime I go to visit my parents house and listen to my old "Vieta" , I think, man there is something wrong in today´s hi-fi industry. If you think that this is only me thinking this way or with this bad experiences in AVR you are totally wrong!
Why do I keep it? Simple, it is the best I can have for my budget to meet all my requirements and still have a normal livingroom that my wife will accept; iPod, cinema, FM, subwoofer. I do not have turntable since 15 years and I do not use CDs since 15 years either (another compromise I had to make in terms of SQ ). Basically I am screwed to the junk that AVR industry has to offer me. I know that there could be other potential solutions but very complex. Even my thought about adding the 8050 to the equation would be a nightmare to integrate with the other gear; internet, iPod, remote controls, the harmony, FM, cinema integration, etc.
Testing section........ if you are still alive....
I have seen too many times comments like "you have to test before buying" bla,bla,bla or "before giving an opinion" bla,bla,bla. In a perfect world maybe I could go down the street and test in the shop around the corner and then come back to the forum and give opinions but this is not the case. Let me tell you something about testing:
1 - Many places like where I live there are no hi-fi shops. The closest is 200 Km in Bilbao.
2 - They do not like people going there testing. They only like people going there spending their money.
3 - Even if you can test some.... What exactly are you goint to test and how? It took me 1 month before I configured my current AVR with the rest of my gear to get the best possible sound. Of course I would need to take my speakers, subwoofer, iPod, PS3, ect. Perhaps spend there maybe 1 week with each AVR that I test after I have configured them properly? Then test with all kind of music and of course movies..... This is NOT realistic!!!
You have given before a good example of a CD player that was tested by one magazine and got 1 start and then it got 4 starts with other magazine..... Unfortunately this is the issue with separates.... you can not test them alone... it requires speakers, source, cables, accoustics, etc. Every single test is going to be different.
Ex. your AVR 818 tested by WHF makes a very vage comment about music performace saying that "The Onkyo keeps decent time for a receiver and doesn’t embarrass itself". Definetly all in same line as when they say "it is good for music but, a dedicated amp would do better" (ex. latest sony review).
http://www.whathifi.com/review/onkyo-tx-nr818
More and more people have to rely on magazines and forums to help on the decision making proces because today´s equipment is very complex has lots of functionality and it is nearly impossible to make realistic tests and specally to compare. For the moment I have to rely almost 95 % on testing done by magazine reviews because they have the equipment, the experience, the possibility to compare and the possibility to test. Does this give me perfect results? Definetly not, but I want to think that less bad results than otherwise.
This is a stupid argument and became a non-sense thread. I am really wondering where are the moderators these days. They should have closed this stupid thread already some time ago. Maybe they are on vacation and I do not blame them because it has been a very long winter and I am looking for that as well.
Well, what else can I say man? We can continue arguing forever or we can settle here and, you continue loving your AVR and I continue hating mine and each of us goes to his corner.
It is a beautiful day (at least in Spain) and it is a pitty to waist it like this really.
Come on, let´s make up, give each other some kisses (without toungue) (LOL) and move on. Seriously, we look like 5 year old kids.... By the way, where is the smiley with the white flag?
If you continue with the cut and paste, I am goint to continue... I tell you that....
At work just now, but....
I use cut and paste as it allows me to focus on a particular point, or several, and won't stop using it in a hurry - it suits my preferred writing style.
You're hacked off that you haven't got a hifi shop nearby, that you haven't found an AV receiver that does it all for you, and some other stuff on top. None of which is my issue. You do seem to be hacked off that I have moved on from my 8050 to the 818 and this is causing you - it would seem - some angst. Again, none of this my issue although I apparently am responsible for people going out and buying the thing. I hope Onkyo will be in touch to forward my cheque, although a bank transfer will be fine.
I made my buying decisions baseed on knowing Onkyo's sound, the brand's commitment to good quality audio, it's sustained performance for its amps over several years now (Hi Fi World reviews are mainly covered by the same guy and they are consistently good). In short, I Was happy to buy blind and am glad I did so.
You need to deal with it, or move on rendu - nothing for me to see or do here but carry on enjoying my purchase.
I use cut and paste as it allows me to focus on a particular point, or several, and won't stop using it in a hurry - it suits my preferred writing style.
You're hacked off that you haven't got a hifi shop nearby, that you haven't found an AV receiver that does it all for you, and some other stuff on top. None of which is my issue. You do seem to be hacked off that I have moved on from my 8050 to the 818 and this is causing you - it would seem - some angst. Again, none of this my issue although I apparently am responsible for people going out and buying the thing. I hope Onkyo will be in touch to forward my cheque, although a bank transfer will be fine.
I made my buying decisions baseed on knowing Onkyo's sound, the brand's commitment to good quality audio, it's sustained performance for its amps over several years now (Hi Fi World reviews are mainly covered by the same guy and they are consistently good). In short, I Was happy to buy blind and am glad I did so.
You need to deal with it, or move on rendu - nothing for me to see or do here but carry on enjoying my purchase.
For what its worth, I used to own an Onkyo TX-SR606 and it was awful for music, really terrible. However I still wanted the 5.1 setup so after a few years I swapped it for a Marantz NR1602 (AVR). The Marantz was better but not as good as how my friends stereo hifi systems sound.
I found that on an AVR you had to leave the Audyssey settings turned on for music as the sound is otherwise really flat and dull.
So, I have recently purchased a stereo amp (Arcam FMJ A18) so that I now have a hifi and AV setup in the same place. It sounds a lot better and having both side-by-side I can say the stereo amp is loads better for music than the AVR.
I would love to be able to do it all from 1 box but I suspect i would need to spend £000s to do it.
I found that on an AVR you had to leave the Audyssey settings turned on for music as the sound is otherwise really flat and dull.
So, I have recently purchased a stereo amp (Arcam FMJ A18) so that I now have a hifi and AV setup in the same place. It sounds a lot better and having both side-by-side I can say the stereo amp is loads better for music than the AVR.
I would love to be able to do it all from 1 box but I suspect i would need to spend £000s to do it.
BigH
Well-known member
RENDO, So you critise cut and paste but in your first post that is what you used.
Just because your AVR sounds not good to you does not mean that all are poor with stereo. Thats like me saying I heard Naim and Cyrus amps but did not like them so then are all amps are rubbish. Really having a go at someone about their opinion on an item which you have not even heard is pretty pointless. I think part of your trouble is timing AVR probably were poor for stereo years ago but now maybe things have changed? Maybe you have set yours up correctly?
Just because your AVR sounds not good to you does not mean that all are poor with stereo. Thats like me saying I heard Naim and Cyrus amps but did not like them so then are all amps are rubbish. Really having a go at someone about their opinion on an item which you have not even heard is pretty pointless. I think part of your trouble is timing AVR probably were poor for stereo years ago but now maybe things have changed? Maybe you have set yours up correctly?
plastic penguin
Well-known member
chebby
Well-known member
I think Rendu makes a few good points very well regarding equipment, dealers, reviews etc.
(Obviously i'm not referring to personal comments between Rendu and RS because that's 'their thing' and is not my business.)
I hope - just for the sake of getting to reread his last post later when I am out having a coffee - that the thread doesn't get stopped.
Some of what Rendu wrote resonates very strongly with me.
Again, not bothered about the squabble / 'last word Larry' stuff.
(Obviously i'm not referring to personal comments between Rendu and RS because that's 'their thing' and is not my business.)
I hope - just for the sake of getting to reread his last post later when I am out having a coffee - that the thread doesn't get stopped.
Some of what Rendu wrote resonates very strongly with me.
Again, not bothered about the squabble / 'last word Larry' stuff.
manicm
Well-known member
Chebby, I think RS is getting a taste of his own medicine, even though I'll side with him here Reminds me of my little arguments with him (and fr0g et al) when I had to stand my ground on my own rips and ears.
But I'm with him here, if he's happy with the Onkyo then so be it. Rendu may have valid points, but surely after his 3rd AV amp he should have known better? He can't blame RS for that! I would agree with him that sometimes dealers leave a bit to be desired though where service is concerned. Also Rendu ignores the possibility that AV amps may have made considerable strides in stereo playback in the last few years, at least at the price RS paid.
Also, RS has bought a pretty recent and high-end machine and I would expect it to play stereo with a modicum of fluency. This argument is not dissimilar to those I had where I asked others not to deride my personal decisions on rips, no matter what 'scientific proof' I may have ignored. RS is simply asking not to be derided on the decision to purchase the Onkyo.
And I can respect that entirely.
Reminds me of my little arguments with him (and fr0g et al) when I had to stand my ground on my own rips and ears.But I'm with him here, if he's happy with the Onkyo then so be it. Rendu may have valid points, but surely after his 3rd AV amp he should have known better? He can't blame RS for that! I would agree with him that sometimes dealers leave a bit to be desired though where service is concerned. Also Rendu ignores the possibility that AV amps may have made considerable strides in stereo playback in the last few years, at least at the price RS paid.
Also, RS has bought a pretty recent and high-end machine and I would expect it to play stereo with a modicum of fluency. This argument is not dissimilar to those I had where I asked others not to deride my personal decisions on rips, no matter what 'scientific proof' I may have ignored. RS is simply asking not to be derided on the decision to purchase the Onkyo.
And I can respect that entirely.
Rendu has a 2012 model Yamaha worth around $1599 when new, so google tells me anyway, so he probably is well aware of the capabilities of modern AV receivers worth decent money.
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