The future of vinyl

[MeanandGreen]

Would any of you give two hoots if all your CDs were stolen? They are outdated digital transport, nothing else.

Yes I'd be severely gutted, for several reasons.

1. Every CD I've had from new still look new, including the Jewel cases. Replacing those like for like won't be easy.

2. I have some rare CD's and some imports, again not easily (or cheaply) replaced if they were all to be replaced.

3. It's the format I grew up with, there is some sentimentality to the CD's I've received as gifts. There are memories attached to specific places and times of my life when from when I bought them and who I was with.

4. They are like a catalogue of the soundtrack to my life as I went through my teenage years to my 30's.

5. If my hard drive went bad or my computer was stolen etc... I wouldn't be able to recreate my digital music library any where near as easily.

 

[steve_1979]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

 

[steve_1979]

I buy, I rip, I sell

You do know that's illegal...

Sorry, I meant I buy, I sell. *biggrin*

With some albums on Amazon it cost more for the download than to buy the CD new. But if you buy the CD new it includes a free download.

So buy the CD. Download the music for free. Then when the CD arrives sell it for what you paid because it's still brand new in the plastic wrapper.

Result = Free music download from Amazon.

 

[Vladimir]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

I'm trying to think like a vinyl aficionado. *crazy* Epic FAIL?

 

[steve_1979]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

I'm trying to think like a vinyl aficionado. *crazy*

You've nailed it.

 

[Vladimir]

I buy, I rip, I sell

You do know that's illegal...

Sorry, I meant I buy, I sell. *biggrin*

With some albums on Amazon it cost more for the download than to buy the CD new. But if you buy the CD new it includes a free download.

So buy the CD. Download the music for free. Then when the CD arrives sell it for what you paid because it's still brand new in the plastic wrapper.

Result = Free music download from Amazon.

Or just get anything for free from torrents and save yourself the hassle. If keeping a digital copy means that much.

 

[MeanandGreen]

You're playing a copied file, nothing else. As I said, CDs are only useful as source to copy, keeping and playing the physical media is a pointless exercise.

Yes that copied file had to originate from somewhere though, that's my point. It's an excellent source and it's the most likely source of people's hard drive data. We still rely a lot on the CD. Even if it's just to copy, it still means it's a worthwhile format.

It's only your opinion that keeping it and playing it is pointless. It's not a fact, there is no wrong choice here.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Another benefit highlighted here with the CD is that it's a very cheap way to purchase new music. Often cheaper than downloads and significantly cheaper than new vinyl.

There's a reason for it's price. When it was the new format, it was overpriced, and everyone (including myself) that paid £14.99 for a CD was being ripped off, because almost without exception, those CDs are now worth zilch. Now it's cheap, because you can get the same SQ for free on the internet, and the physical media is still worth zilch.

Why the hell would anyone pay for something you can get for free?

 

[MeanandGreen]

Or just get anything for free from torrents and save yourself the hassle. If keeping a digital copy means that much.

I detest this way of thinking. If we all did that and didn't support the music industry there'd be no music to steal.

 

[Vladimir]

Amazon sells CDs at a loss in order to attract people buying other things in their shop. I thought this is by now a fairly known fact.

 

[Frank Harvey]

There's a big difference.

I'll use the word majority next time.

If you want academic rigour, then give us some evidence for your claim that "most" people who switched from vinyl to CD back in the eighties did so because they were fooled by the advertising.

There's no evidence or proof of any of this, which is why we are discussing it on a forum. If there really was evidence either way, there would be no need for discussion. There's a mass of reasons why people switched, with some applying to some people, not to others.

And come on, with the amount of digs at advertising on these forums? Advertising is evil! Advertising is as advertising does - makes you go out and buy stuff - the next best thing. Curved TVs anyone? Do they still do curved phones?

That's always been one of the main objections to vinyl from people who listen to classical music. It's incontrovertible, isn't it?

As I wasn't into the classical genre at the time, I can't say, I have a few classical CDs which I've purchased in the last few years, and looking to get some more - like sparse electronica, I'll purchase classical on CD as it's not a major genre for me at the moment, plus I can use them for demos. I can rip them to my Zen Mini, saving storage space needed and upkeep....hang on, this is sounding familiar...

I'm not really interested in arguments about the cost of the media.

Maybe you're not, but it was cited as a factor to consider if looking to get into or get back into vinyl.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

You're playing a copied file, nothing else. As I said, CDs are only useful as source to copy, keeping and playing the physical media is a pointless exercise.

Yes that copied file had to originate from somewhere though, that's my point. It's an excellent source and it's the most likely source of people's hard drive data. We still rely a lot on the CD. Even if it's just to copy, it still means it's a worthwhile format.

It's only your opinion that keeping it and playing it is pointless. It's not a fact, there is no wrong choice here.

I think you're proving my point with your defence.

 

[Vladimir]

Or just get anything for free from torrents and save yourself the hassle. If keeping a digital copy means that much.

I detest this way of thinking. If we all did that and didn't support the music industry there'd be no music to steal.

I agree. Which is why I don't use torrents and I pay a monthly subscription for a streaming service.

I don't own a music collection. I think I have 4-5 folders with FLACs for testing speakers, but that's it.

 

[MeanandGreen]

There's a reason for it's price. When it was the new format, it was overpriced, and everyone (including myself) that paid £14.99 for a CD was being ripped off, because almost without exception, those CDs are now worth zilch. Now it's cheap, because you can get the same SQ for free on the internet, and the physical media is still worth zilch.

Why the hell would anyone pay for something you can get for free?

Becuse you want something real to hold in your hand and to say you own it. You want to make a contribution to support the artist who created it. You can sell it on again if you choose. At least the cheap cost now means there is nothing to loose.

You could make the same overpriced arguments about vinyl now. It's way overpriced and is technically inferior to digital so why pay premiums for that now?

It's choice and preference.

 

[tino]

Of course, if you'd looked after your records and cleaned them properly, they'd have played wthout any noise, and would have value. CDs, on the other hand are virtually worthless when they are looked after, and totally worthless when not.

I listen to vinyl and stream Flac files, CDs are a pointless format, other than to rip Flac files from.

Why would I bother cleaning records and styli? What a complete waste of time. Even with the best intentions they would still have a higher noise content than CD and be extremely susceptible to damage and wear. I might as well buy the LP, digitize it, put it back in its sleeve then never play it again. Many years later I 'might' make money from the pristine condition of the LP. I do however agree with your last sentence .... CDs might be considered as a cheaper than download digital transportation device rather than a format to play directly from.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

Isn't Vlad European? You've seen Eurotrash right? Amongst many other things, they love "poop" in all its forms.

 

[MajorFubar]

I've never bought a used CD yet that doesn't play without error, that includes fine surface scratches and smudges.

You're very fortunate, because I've had loads that have had problems due to minor scratches and finger marks.

But it's easy to clean them squirt of Pledge and a microfiber cloth. You can't criticise a car because it drives rubbish with the tyres deflated. Whereas with records it's not quite so easy.

 

[tino]

Analogue vs Digital = Candle light vs Electric bulb.

If the vinyl is mastered from a digital hi-res file does that mean analogue = faux battery powered candle? ;-)

 

[MeanandGreen]

I've never bought a used CD yet that doesn't play without error, that includes fine surface scratches and smudges.

You're very fortunate, because I've had loads that have had problems due to minor scratches and finger marks.

But it's easy to clean them squirt of Pledge and a microfiber cloth. You can't criticise a car because it drives rubbish with the tyres deflated. Whereas with records it's not quite so easy.

Precisely!

CD maintenance is virtualy zero in effort and they have excellent longevity.

 

[iMark]

I'm old enough to remember me and my friends and family adopting CDs. The biggest step obviously was buying a CD player and it took a couple of years for them to come down in price. Almost everyone I knew back then had a reasonable stereo set to which a seperate CD deck could be added. Obviously here in NL Philips (and Sony) did a lot of marketing to push the new format but everyone that heard CDs back then was extremely happy to be able to listen to music without hiss, cracks and pops. A lot of vinyl wasn't very good in those days. The idea of buying a CD that wouldn't deterioate over time was (and is) still very attractive.

My theory is that if the record companies hadn't started messing around with the mastering during the loudness wars, noone in their right mind would even think of switching back from CD to LP. I think the best example is that classical music lovers are not yearning back to LPs with quite a bit of noise. I still play the records I inherited from my parents but if there is a CD of the same recording available, I prefer the CD.

These are great times for people that like CDs. There's a wealth of second hand CDs out there and you hardly ever have to worry about scratches on them. A thirty year old CD will play like new.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Yes I'd be severely gutted, for several reasons.

1. Every CD I've had from new still look new, including the Jewel cases. Replacing those like for like won't be easy.

Apart from every track on them being freely available on the internet.

2. I have some rare CD's and some imports, again not easily (or cheaply) replaced if they were all to be replaced.

Apart from every track on them being freely available on the internet.

3. It's the format I grew up with, there is some sentimentality to the CD's I've received as gifts. There are memories attached to specific places and times of my life when from when I bought them and who I was with.

Really, I can't remember where I bought any CD, and I have no emotional attachment to any of them. My records are loved, possibly more than I love my wife. *biggrin*

4. They are like a catalogue of the soundtrack to my life as I went through my teenage years to my 30's.

And are all freely available on the internet.

5. If my hard drive went bad or my computer was stolen etc... I wouldn't be able to recreate my digital music library any where near as easily.

That's a point, but that's a reason for having as many back ups as possible. I have 3, I'd like more.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Really, I can't remember where I bought any CD, and I have no emotional attachment to any of them. My records are loved, possibly more than I love my wife. *biggrin*

Well you and I differ drastically then. I have memories attached to my music collection. It doesn't matter if the file can be found for free. The file is not physical, it's nothing. You can't see it, you can't touch it. You don't own anything.

I'm centimental by nature, if picking up a CD case can bring back memories of a particular day with a particular person then I place importance on it. No digital file from the net can do that.

Perhaps if you consider how you feel about your records the you may understand how I feel about my CD's.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Analogue vs Digital = Candle light vs Electric bulb.

I actually prefer candle light...

I wonder why candles aren't obsolete? I think you should pop over to a candle forum and tell them they're living in the past with an outdated mode of light, and that electric light is far superior, listing why they shouldn't be using it, extolling the virtues of modern light. You can ask them why candles are so expensive nowadays, and why anyone would even bother when you can buy bulbs from the pound shop.

Hang on, "light bulbs" are becoming obsolete...slowly making way for energy saving light bulbs, and outlasted by candles, which have been around for centuries

 

[Vladimir]

Analogue vs Digital = Candle light vs Electric bulb.

I actually prefer candle light...

I wonder why candles aren't obsolete? I think you should pop over to a candle forum and tell them they're living in the past with an outdated mode of light, and that electric light is far superior, listing why they shouldn't be using it, extolling the virtues of modern light. You can ask them why candles are so expensive nowadays, and why anyone would even bother when you can buy bulbs from the pound shop.

Hang on, "light bulbs" are becoming obsolete...slowly making way for energy saving light bulbs, and outlasted by candles, which have been around for centuries

It's a good analogy, don't you think?

Karajan said these famous words during a Sony CDP presentation. "Everything else is gaslight."

Candle light is pleasant, romantic, iconic etc. Electric bulb is just a convenient source of light and nothing else. But then you start comparing incandescent vs fluorescent.... it never ends. It's a generational and cultural thing. Old vs new. Gemeinschaft vs Gesellschaft. Polyester vs cotton vs wool. This smashed blob of plastic vs that smashed blob of plastic.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I'm old enough to remember me and my friends and family adopting CDs. The biggest step obviously was buying a CD player and it took a couple of years for them to come down in price. Almost everyone I knew back then had a reasonable stereo set to which a seperate CD deck could be added. Obviously here in NL Philips (and Sony) did a lot of marketing to push the new format but everyone that heard CDs back then was extremely happy to be able to listen to music without hiss, cracks and pops. A lot of vinyl wasn't very good in those days. The idea of buying a CD that wouldn't deterioate over time was (and is) still very attractive.

My theory is that if the record companies hadn't started messing around with the mastering during the loudness wars, noone in their right mind would even think of switching back from CD to LP. I think the best example is that classical music lovers are not yearning back to LPs with quite a bit of noise. I still play the records I inherited from my parents but if there is a CD of the same recording available, I prefer the CD.

These are great times for people that like CDs. There's a wealth of second hand CDs out there and you hardly ever have to worry about scratches on them. A thirty year old CD will play like new.

Good post which I think sums it up well.