The future of vinyl

[tonky]

CDs (ripped to my Zen) comprise most of my listening. I have over 800 CDs, some from CD's launch, right up to now, some of them I've paid £30-40 for due to them being rare. As already mentioned, I will be continuing to buy CDs for a number of reasons.

What I do, say etc etc will have no bearing on what people will and will not buy. I can't talk people into investing in a format they're not interested in, and I don't try to do so. My livelihood isn't dependant on anything/everything that happens here. If it was, I'd be pushing Atmos on everyone - but then most will only see what they want to see.

My "emotional responses" were triggered by some of the baloney that has been posted - apologies, it won't happen again, despite the further baiting that will no doubt continue.

I've said all I need to say in this thread, so I'm going to continue to enjoy my films.

Well, David - I've read and appreciated a fair number of contributions/contributors on this (now somewhat overblown and wrung dry thread) - I couldn't agree more about some of the baloney that has been written. The deliberate baiting and sarcastic retorts. I thought contributors on this site should be above that.

tonky

 

[MeanandGreen]

Treating vinyl format as high fidelity in 2016 is one of the nonsenses that the 'anti-vinyl brigade' objects to. It's not about taking away one's pleasure of using vinyl, but getting the facts straight.

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

The subject of vinyl and high fidelity always causes debate. The physical limitations of the format dictate that it is not high fidelity, in saying that though it doesn't change the fact we need a high fidelity system to play them on and to play them well.

It's all a bit ironic. To play a 'Lo Fi' source we need a Hi Fi to play it on and to play a 'Hi Fi' source we can use a shoddy 10mm mono speaker and stream!

I'm not bashing vinyl either with the 'Lo Fi' tag. I enjoy it (a lot) but I'm not going to deny it's limitations and put on the rose tinted specs.

 

[bigboss]

Especially if you have just got a new CD and you just want to hear it straight away.

 

If you buy CDs from Amazon, you get a digital copy free with it, which you can listen straight away, without even waiting for the CD to be posted to you.

 

[Vladimir]

Treating vinyl format as high fidelity in 2016 is one of the nonsenses that the 'anti-vinyl brigade' objects to. It's not about taking away one's pleasure of using vinyl, but getting the facts straight.

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

The subject of vinyl and high fidelity always causes debate. The physical limitations of the format dictate that it is not high fidelity, in saying that though it doesn't change the fact we need a high fidelity system to play them on and to play them well.

It's all a bit ironic. To play a 'Lo Fi' source we need a Hi Fi to play it on and to play a 'Hi Fi' source we can use a shoddy 10mm mono speaker and stream!

I'm not bashing vinyl either with the 'Lo Fi' tag. I enjoy it (a lot) but I'm not going to deny it's limitations and put on the rose tinted specs.

I 100% agree.

The real big brawls happen when the LP boys tell the CD boys that vinyl is higher fidelity than the Red Book standard, and that digital comes close only when its very high resolution. (think Pono 24/192 or higher as DSD).

 

[MeanandGreen]

I 100% agree.

The real big brawls happen when the LP boys tell the CD boys that vinyl is higher fidelity than the Red Book standard, and that digital comes close only when its very high resolution. (think Pono 24/192 or higher as DSD).

Indeed!

I don't know what it is about Hi Fi and audiophilea that cause all common sence to go out of the window and make people believe in complete twaddle.

 

[Freddy58]

I remember going into Radford HiFi here in Bristol, maybe 20 years ago. They had a Joni Mitchell record playing on a turntable based system. I can't remember what the components were, I wish I could. I have to say, I was completely blown away with the sound. I've never come across before or since a system that 'breathed' in the way that one did. Every guitar string plucked could really be experienced, just as if one was there as it was recorded. Does this mean I'm anti CD? Of course not. I'm merely pointing out that vinyl isn't as bad as some would like to think.

Oh yes, Vlad, you confirmed my suspicions

 

[Vladimir]

I remember going into Radford HiFi here in Bristol, maybe 20 years ago. They had a Joni Mitchell record playing on a turntable based system. I can't remember what the components were, I wish I could. I have to say, I was completely blown away with the sound. I've never come across before or since a system that 'breathed' in the way that one did. Every guitar string plucked could really be experienced, just as if one was there as it was recorded. Does this mean I'm anti CD? Of course not. I'm merely pointing out that vinyl isn't as bad as some would like to think.

Oh yes, Vlad, you confirmed my suspicions

If I had a penny for every audiophile anecdote about female vocal and acoustic guitars sounding like real life, I'd own a vinyl printing business by now. When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

 

[Freddy58]

I remember going into Radford HiFi here in Bristol, maybe 20 years ago. They had a Joni Mitchell record playing on a turntable based system. I can't remember what the components were, I wish I could. I have to say, I was completely blown away with the sound. I've never come across before or since a system that 'breathed' in the way that one did. Every guitar string plucked could really be experienced, just as if one was there as it was recorded. Does this mean I'm anti CD? Of course not. I'm merely pointing out that vinyl isn't as bad as some would like to think.

Oh yes, Vlad, you confirmed my suspicions

If I had a penny for every audiophile anecdote about female vocal and acoustic guitars sounding like real life, I'd own a vinyl printing business by now. When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Hey, I can only convey my experience. If you don't like it, I'm sorry

 

[Vladimir]

I remember going into Radford HiFi here in Bristol, maybe 20 years ago. They had a Joni Mitchell record playing on a turntable based system. I can't remember what the components were, I wish I could. I have to say, I was completely blown away with the sound. I've never come across before or since a system that 'breathed' in the way that one did. Every guitar string plucked could really be experienced, just as if one was there as it was recorded. Does this mean I'm anti CD? Of course not. I'm merely pointing out that vinyl isn't as bad as some would like to think.

Oh yes, Vlad, you confirmed my suspicions

If I had a penny for every audiophile anecdote about female vocal and acoustic guitars sounding like real life, I'd own a vinyl printing business by now. When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Hey, I can only convey my experience. If you don't like it, I'm sorry

It was mentioned several times in the thread that the shortfalls of vinyl are most evident to classical music lovers because of the large dynamic range of that music genre, as well as its congested music information. Plucking guitars and Norah Jones sounds good on anything. Play it through a soundbar or ipod dock, it will sound brilliant.

 

[Freddy58]

Vlad, this thread was only created to try and suck people in. You obviously already had your mind made up.

 

[Freddy58]

Plucking guitars and Norah Jones sounds good on anything. Play it through a soundbar or ipod dock, it will sound brilliant.

I disagree *smile*

 

[Vladimir]

Vlad, this thread was only created to try and suck people in. You obviously already had your mind made up.

My stance is known to the regular posters here and I repeated it throughout the thread. I don't understand what were your expectations.

What are your thoughts about vinyl as a format in the future? Will it grow, linger or will everyone throw their LPs and decks in the trash like when CD arrived? What do you reckon will happen next?

 

[The_Lhc]

+1, Far more anti-CD hatred in this thread IMO. Apparently they're all worthless coasters with no value, which is of absolutely no negative consequence seeing as I don't plan on selling any, and is exactly what I want to hear when I buy them. The best-sounding format is almost immune to degradation and wear and costs pence to buy because collectors aren't interested in it. Wow where's the catch?!

+1 to that!?

I honestly didn't realise how much CD was hated until I found my self having to justify playing them and collecting them to people in this thread.?

 

Now, you're not talking about me here are you? I didn't get back to our conversation from yesterday because after I woke up, went to work and glanced at the thread sometime this afternoon there were over 70 new posts to the thread and I couldn't be bothered to find my way back to it. But if all you took from that discussion was that I don't like CDs then you really weren't listening to a word I was saying.

I buy two formats of music, vinyl and CD (I get the occasional download when they come free with an LP or something), the point is I just don't listen to the CD directly, it just gets ripped, sorted (let's off-road!) and stored in the back room which houses my book library and CD collection (the vinyl lives in the front room). I am entirely format agnostic (although I have no way of playing hi-res downloads, they get down converted to 16-bit). I have three systems: the front room has the main system, proper stereo speakers (albeit getting on a little), separate amp, with a turntable and Sonos Connect as the main sources (I also have a tape deck for some old deleted albums that I just can't get on any other format and I've tried! That doesn't get much use though.). In the dining room I have a converted 1960s radiogram powered by a Sonos Connect:Amp which also has a turntable attached to it, this is generally used for gatherings, either low-level background droning or it can go loud for parties. I wouldn't call it hi-fi but most people seem to find it amusing, which is why I put it together. Finally I have a dreaded mono speaker in the small back room, this is a Sonos play:1 providing incidental noise for when I'm playing pool or darts. At some point I may add a second to create a stereo pair but that'll need some thinking about in terms of where to mount them, power provision etc etc, shouldn't be too difficult though. Incidentally, all three sonos systems read from the same device, back in the front room.

So anti-CD? No, definitely not, anti-CD player? Sure, as a device it's had its day. You can get exactly the same sound, with far more convenience, from a digital streamer.

Lastly I just want to address one thing that Vladimir keeps saying, that vinyl isn't hi-fidelity. Maybe I don't know what hi-fidelity means, all I do know is that the most extraordinary system I've ever heard had a turntable for the source, it was in the Wilson Benesch room at the Bristol hi-fi show a few years ago. Now, I have no idea how much this system cost, the speakers were huge electrostatics, there were enormous mono amps on the floor, cables as thick as a baby's arm and in the middle of it, a turntable, the make and model of which I didn't bother to find out as one look told me it was a system I was never going to own. It was playing, somewhat bizarrely, a Harry Belafonte live album (yeah, I know, wouldn't have been my first choice either). All I can say is this system produced the most holographic, three-dimensional sound I've ever experienced, you couldn't just place the musicians in the room, you could have drawn the shape of the concert hall from the sound you were hearing. It was, to use entirely the WRONG word, unreal.

Now, if that isn't hi-fidelity then I guess I have no interest in hi-fi. Does my system produce that? No, of course not but neither does anyone else's here.

Is vinyl "high resolution" (whatever tf that's supposed to mean, other than marketing bull), no, clearly not, I've certainly never tried to claim otherwise. Hi-fidelity? I'd say so, yes.

 

[Al ears]

Treating vinyl format as high fidelity in 2016 is one of the nonsenses that the 'anti-vinyl brigade' objects to. It's not about taking away one's pleasure of using vinyl, but getting the facts straight.

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

The subject of vinyl and high fidelity always causes debate. The physical limitations of the format dictate that it is not high fidelity, in saying that though it doesn't change the fact we need a high fidelity system to play them on and to play them well.

It's all a bit ironic. To play a 'Lo Fi' source we need a Hi Fi to play it on and to play a 'Hi Fi' source we can use a shoddy 10mm mono speaker and stream!

I'm not bashing vinyl either with the 'Lo Fi' tag. I enjoy it (a lot) but I'm not going to deny it's limitations and put on the rose tinted specs.

Agreed, back in the mists of time, unless you had an expensive tape machine, LP's where about as hi-fir as you could get.

Now I for one got to like the sound even taking into account it's limitations, many of today's streamers / downloaders may not.

It's personal choice and you endeavour to get the sound you like from whichever source you like. It's always been this way, and everyone called it hifi whatever.

 

[MeanandGreen]

My anti CD comment wasn't just in relation to our earlier debate no. I've also been having similar (although not as heated) discussions with other members. You'll notice I was quoting Major in the comment you are referring to and he wasn't just referring to you personally either.

Pehaps I should of used the words 'anti CD playback'. However you want to label it though it still comes down to the fact that it's only your opinion that CD playback is pointless and it's up to others if they want to play them (alongside) using a digital library in whatever form that may be.

Just as you (and I) play vinyl, some people think that's a waste of time too. It's irrelevant because we're still going to keep playing them.

Now I do not wish to get into any further arguments about the CD format. We can all agree that we all use it be it for playback or ripping or both. It's a great format and still a very useful and highly capable source.

I do think I'm owed an apology for your abusive language aimed at myself earlier though. I'm more than willing to bury it and move on. We share the same interests in music and audio so why argue over nonsense?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Genuine question. What in your opinion is the best source for listening to Holst' The Planets, and which specific recording would you recommend?

I'm currently listening to it on vinyl (Cat# ASD269), sounds great to me, a few pops, but I think I could remove those with another clean through the Knosti.

 

[Vladimir]

When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Genuine question. What in your opinion is the best source for listening to Holst' The Planets, and which specific recording would you recommend?

I'm currently listening to it on vinyl (Cat# ASD269), sounds great to me, a few pops, but I think I could remove those with another clean through the Knosti.

Karajan and Previn as my top picks. And the free copy I got from B&W with Davis was good. For vinyl I'd be after this one.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Genuine question. What in your opinion is the best source for listening to Holst' The Planets, and which specific recording would you recommend?

I'm currently listening to it on vinyl (Cat# ASD269), sounds great to me, a few pops, but I think I could remove those with another clean through the Knosti.

Karajan and Previn as my top picks. And the free copy I got from B&W with Davis was good. For vinyl I'd be after this one.

Thanks. I've got 3 recordings on vinyl already, so I'm after a CD just to compare.

 

[Vladimir]

When you have one about Holst's Mars sounding like real performance in a store give me a buzz dude.

Genuine question. What in your opinion is the best source for listening to Holst' The Planets, and which specific recording would you recommend?

I'm currently listening to it on vinyl (Cat# ASD269), sounds great to me, a few pops, but I think I could remove those with another clean through the Knosti.

Karajan and Previn as my top picks. And the free copy I got from B&W with Davis was good. For vinyl I'd be after this one.

Thanks. I've got 3 recordings on vinyl already, so I'm after a CD just to compare.

That would be a cool shootout, AAA vs DDD. Make sure you snap one that is all digital.

 

[iMark]

In the early and mid 1980s Decca made terrific digital recordings of the Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal under Charles Dutoit. They recorded the Planets in 1986, released in 1987.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-The-Planets-Gustav/dp/B0000041S7/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TWCKSSN72BEQ33DTMK4

I'm not the only one who really likes this recording.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5739-best-recording-planets.html

It's available on Spotify and so is the Von Karajan. IMHO the Decca sound from 1987 is quite a bit better than the DG from 1981. The comparison is a bit difficult, because the DG seems to have been remastered at a much louder level.

Another really good one, from 2003, is Colin Davis with the London Symphony Orchestra.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holst-Planets-Gustav/dp/B000063DQJ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453731213&sr=8-2&keywords=Holst+Planets+LSO

 

[Vladimir]

In the early and mid 1980s Decca made terrific digital recordings of the Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal under Charles Dutoit. They recorded the Planets in 1986, released in 1987.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-The-Planets-Gustav/dp/B0000041S7/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TWCKSSN72BEQ33DTMK4

I'm not the only one who really likes this recording.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5739-best-recording-planets.html

It's available on Spotify and so is the Von Karajan. IMHO the Decca sound from 1987 is quite a bit better than the DG from 1981. The comparison is a bit difficult, because the DG seems to have been remastered at a much louder level.

Another really good one, from 2003, is Colin Davis with the London Symphony Orchestra.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holst-Planets-Gustav/dp/B000063DQJ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453731213&sr=8-2&keywords=Holst+Planets+LSO

I must admit I prefer the more bombastic Karajan. *blush*

It's chesty, but there is no real loudness abuse. Clicky

 

[Al ears]

In the early and mid 1980s Decca made terrific digital recordings of the Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal under Charles Dutoit. They recorded the Planets in 1986, released in 1987.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-The-Planets-Gustav/dp/B0000041S7/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TWCKSSN72BEQ33DTMK4

I'm not the only one who really likes this recording.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5739-best-recording-planets.html

It's available on Spotify and so is the Von Karajan. IMHO the Decca sound from 1987 is quite a bit better than the DG from 1981. The comparison is a bit difficult, because the DG seems to have been remastered at a much louder level.

Another really good one, from 2003, is Colin Davis with the London Symphony Orchestra.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holst-Planets-Gustav/dp/B000063DQJ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453731213&sr=8-2&keywords=Holst+Planets+LSO

I must admit I prefer the more bombastic Karajan. *blush*

It's chesty, but there is no real loudness abuse. Clicky

Should bl**dy well hope not on a classical recording.

 

[Covenanter]

In the early and mid 1980s Decca made terrific digital recordings of the Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal under Charles Dutoit. They recorded the Planets in 1986, released in 1987.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-The-Planets-Gustav/dp/B0000041S7/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TWCKSSN72BEQ33DTMK4

I'm not the only one who really likes this recording.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5739-best-recording-planets.html

It's available on Spotify and so is the Von Karajan. IMHO the Decca sound from 1987 is quite a bit better than the DG from 1981. The comparison is a bit difficult, because the DG seems to have been remastered at a much louder level.

Another really good one, from 2003, is Colin Davis with the London Symphony Orchestra.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holst-Planets-Gustav/dp/B000063DQJ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453731213&sr=8-2&keywords=Holst+Planets+LSO

I've had the Dutoit since it was released in 1987 and I've never been moved to buy another version. It won the Gramophone Engineering award when it came out and it is a very fine recording indeed which is matched by the playing.

Chris

 

[Vladimir]

Imagine if tomorrow a company called Elysian Audio invented a speaker technology that is cheap and simple to make, light to transport, easy to operate, small to fit on a shelf, and sounds perfect 100% like the real sound from real life to our biologically limited human hearing. I'm not speaking hearing the sound coming out of the recording studio monitors, I mean perfect grand piano powerfully struming through your body in your living room. I mean perfect sonic hologram that fools our senses and brain.

Almost everyone will buy it, right? Yes. But you and I know it there will be a niche of people who will go on buying the old technology, listening through old dynamic, electrostatic, planar, plasma etc. speakers out of nostalgia, cool factor, collecting antiques... but some will actually say sound is better through these old speakers.

And that is EXACTLY what happened when CD was introduced. Perfect sound forever. With digital we have solved sound storage. But some people still buy tapes and vinyl. And some of them (not all of course) are in denial that this huge event in human history ever happened. Go figure.

What is the future of vinyl? There is no future, only the past to cherish, enjoy and share. Sure, there will be some eccentrics who think vinyl sounds better than digital audio, but they are a really small minority that we can afford to endure.

So I'm kinda done talking vinyl for a while after this thread. Time to explore other things in our beloved hobby.

 

[manicm]

but they are a really small minority that we can afford to endure.

Guess the pomposity will never end.