The future of vinyl

[Frank Harvey]

It's a good analogy, don't you think?

Yeah, pretty good

Karajan said these famous words during a Sony CDP presentation. "Everything else is gaslight."

The more energetic higher frequencies of early CD was probably better suited to his failing ears

And do we trust what David Beckham says about a razor, or underpants? (Oh, I forgot, they don't allow him to talk in adverts). You get my point

 

[matt49]

I'll use the word majority next time.

And I'll take that as an attempt at humour.

It seems to me that one factor in the (very limited) vinyl renaissance is the advent of streaming and other sources of music on the web. I suspect some people feel that music has become devalued by being so ubiquitous and easy to access. And some people may feel that playing music from a computer robs it of a sense of occasion.

Vinyl compensates for these 'losses'. It appeals to people's nostalgia for a time when music was harder to come by, and it has a sense of theatre about it.

Of course, some people have stuck with vinyl through the CD years, in many cases because they believe it sounds nicer or better. And no doubt some people are also returning to vinyl for those reasons, in the same way as some people think that a digital signal can be represented by stair steps or that CD can't reproduce the full audible range of sound perfectly.

 

[MajorFubar]

You can all get misty-eyed about vinyl all you like with your multi thousand pound record players but for Mr Average in 1983 who had a Matsui midi system, CDs gave him a sound quality like he'd never had before. It wasn't a marketing gimmick. I don't know why the sales of vinyl have increased year on year for the past ten years. But I know it's probably not because of their sound quality. Not because I think records sound rubbish, far from it, but because unless someone can prove they're mainly being bought by audiophiles, then the majory of people buying them aren't buying them for their sound.

 

[Vladimir]

It's a good analogy, don't you think?

Yeah, pretty good

Karajan said these famous words during a Sony CDP presentation. "Everything else is gaslight."

The more energetic higher frequencies of early CD was probably better suited to his failing ears

And do we trust what David Beckham says about a razor, or underpants? (Oh, I forgot, they don't allow him to talk in adverts). You get my point

He is known for endorsing two inovative products in hi-fi, namely the CD format and Acoustic Research AR-3a (acoustic suspension, dome tweeter). Both products are deemed as huge milestones for reproduction of classical music at home. At first you think he is another uninterested celebrity that endorsed anything for a paycheck, but you have to admit, he only endorsed two and the man knew how to pick.

Of course, I understand your argument will be that he is just part of the marketing hype that suckered in everyone and the success of his endorsed products are nothing but self fulfilled prophecies.

Interestingly, today luddites consider the two biggest downturns in hi-fi to be the huge success of AR (and other low efficiency speakers due to this) and the switch from vinyl to CD. If I was a flatearth I would hate Karajan with all my guts.

 

[tonky]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

I hope he likes cream on his strawberries *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

Music from vinyl records is like a tasty strawberry covered with dog poo. You keep cleaning and cleaning it to get just to the strawberry and nothing else. Music from CDs is like dog poo smeared with strawberries. The more you clean it, worse it gets.

WTF are you waffling on about? *wacko*

I hope he likes cream on his strawberries *biggrin*

I'm glad some enjoy scatological humour. It's a dying art.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I think the best example is that classical music lovers are not yearning back to LPs with quite a bit of noise..

I don't quite understand your point, but if you're saying classical lovers are not buying records, I'd beg to differ, some classical records are fetching stupendous amounts of money. I'm talking over a grand sometimes.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm glad some enjoy scatological humour. It's a dying art.

Is it being killed by modern day foul mouthedness and blatant sarcasm?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

These are great times for people that like CDs.

Absolutely.

There's a wealth of second hand CDs out there and you hardly ever have to worry about scratches on them. A thirty year old CD will play like new.

I'd like to know where you lot buy your CDs from, because my experience differs greatly to yours. Very often when I look at CDs at Car Boots and Charity Shops, the discs look like they been skated on by tiny mice, I've even found what looks like someones dinner on some.

Just like vinyl, when CDs are not looked after they will not last, but unlike vinyl, CDs that have been abused just will not play, sticking, and freezing regularly.

 

[Covenanter]

It seems to me from some of the posts here that vinyl is now a religion.

Chris

 

[Frank Harvey]

Not really, it's just the anti-vinyl brigade trying to demean those who enjoy it. Who gives a monkeys? No one really.

 

[tonky]

Advert on TV - De Agostini (collectors gold magazine!) - Classical Jazz Collection - 180g vinyl 33 and a third! ONLY 4.99£ -

well it makes a change from the throwaway CDs we used to get in the Sunday papers- still have a stack waiting to be thrown out from my garage.

tonky - (useless/pointless nostalgia mode)

 

[expat_mike]

CD maintenance is virtualy zero in effort and they have excellent longevity.

In the early years of CDs, there were frequent scare stories that the internal silvered layer would deteriorate over time, and that the max lifetime of a CD would be only 10 years, and then it would need to be replaced.

Luckily these scare stories have proved wrong.

 

[Vladimir]

Not really, it's just the anti-vinyl brigade trying to demean those who enjoy it. Who gives a monkeys? No one really.

Any chance this anti-vinyl brigade happens to be the same anti-cable, anti-valve, anti-reviews etc?

 

[tonky]

Leave my auntie out of this - she loves her vinyl!

tonky (with strawberries and cream*biggrin*)

 

[Frank Harvey]

Any chance this anti-vinyl brigade happens to be the same anti-cable, anti-valve, anti-reviews etc?

Pass, but it's just as boring. People who want it will buy it, people who won't, won't. People on here trying to change people's minds round to their own way of thinking are doing exactly what advertisements do. The discussion is about "the future of vinyl", not about the supposedly pathetic reasons why 'fools' still buy and listen to it (which is basically the direction the conversation headed some while back now).

What is the future of vinyl? Have there been any real and sensible answers to this? If so, they're buried on some page long ago. Let's have less of the veiled, and also not so subtle, attacks on people who still use this medium, and those who are choosing to go back to it. My opinion is that it'll continue to grow for now, but still remain relatively niche. It'll still survive alongside streaming options for many people, probably still being produced when CDs no longer are. I've already outlined numerous possible reasons as to why people are going back to it.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

well i still buy CDs i like CDs and i would cry if someone stole my collection of CDs i have had CDs right from the start when CDs first came out i think CDs are very good and its going to be a long time before something new comes out that's better then CDs in quality ( loudness war ) which i think will never change

 

[Vladimir]

Any chance this anti-vinyl brigade happens to be the same anti-cable, anti-valve, anti-reviews etc?

Pass, but it's just as boring. People who want it will buy it, people who won't, won't. People on here trying to change people's minds round to their own way of thinking are doing exactly what advertisements do. The discussion is about "the future of vinyl", not about the supposedly pathetic reasons why 'fools' still buy and listen to it (which is basically the direction the conversation headed some while back now).

What is the future of vinyl? Have there been any real and sensible answers to this? If so, they're buried on some page long ago. Let's have less of the veiled, and also not so subtle, attacks on people who still use this medium, and those who are choosing to go back to it. My opinion is that it'll continue to grow for now, but still remain relatively niche. It'll still survive alongside streaming options for many people, probably still being produced when CDs no longer are. I've already outlined numerous possible reasons as to why people are going back to it.

I understand.

Pro-vinyl brigade is saying people got fooled into switching to CDs during the 80s. The anti-vinyl brigade is saying people are being fooled today into switching to vinyl.

If the pro-vinyl brigade is right, vinyl will continue to exists indefinitely in this audiophile niche market. If the anti-vinyl brigade is right, this is all a trend and will eventually evaporate by the change of generations or by introduction of some other hype.

Don't worry Harvey, we are spot on topic.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Any chance this anti-vinyl brigade happens to be the same anti-cable, anti-valve, anti-reviews etc?

Pass, but it's just as boring. People who want it will buy it, people who won't, won't. People on here trying to change people's minds round to their own way of thinking are doing exactly what advertisements do. The discussion is about "the future of vinyl", not about the supposedly pathetic reasons why 'fools' still buy and listen to it (which is basically the direction the conversation headed some while back now).

What is the future of vinyl? Have there been any real and sensible answers to this? If so, they're buried on some page long ago. Let's have less of the veiled, and also not so subtle, attacks on people who still use this medium, and those who are choosing to go back to it. My opinion is that it'll continue to grow for now, but still remain relatively niche. It'll still survive alongside streaming options for many people, probably still being produced when CDs no longer are. I've already outlined numerous possible reasons as to why people are going back to it.

I understand.

Pro-vinyl brigade is saying people got fooled into switching to CDs during the 80s. The anti-vinyl brigade is saying people are being fooled today into switching to vinyl.

If the pro-vinyl brigade is right, vinyl will continue to exists indefinitely in this audiophile niche market. If the anti-vinyl brigade is right, this is all a trend and will eventually evaporate by the change of generations or by introduction of some other hype.

Don't worry Harvey, we are spot on topic.

well no one makes people switch to vinyl its a choice there is no issues doing all the format's i am at the age where i have had vinyl , CDs , mini disc , tape , downloads , streaming its my choice to use any of this formats no one fooled to use them . companys will still make vinyl , CDs or company's offering stream , downloading service's if people carry on buying this format's but vinyl i would say is a niche market where people my age would go back to it though there choice as i think its an age thing with some people . now with the young people of today that were not born when vinyl was common place i would say that maybe they buy vinyl as its a cool thing like there friends do .

 

[manicm]

Ultimately I think this argument is pointless because currently every format has validity, regardless of technical merit.

I want a working turntable simply because my father has some records, classical and otherwise, that were never ever released on CD, others will have different reasons, all valid.

I also have a good reason to keep a cd player and my CDs - e.g. Amazon UK don't even have Hounds Of Love on CD. Luckily I have one, and screw anyone completely that I can just get it on Spotify or Tidal or whatever. I do value my CD collection, I paid good money for them, they may be worthless plastic superficially, but they contain music I treasure, to play and rip as I please.

I'll rip it all someday and pack it in suitcases gathering dust, but I don't think I'll ever dispose of them.

My advice? If you're even fleetingly interested in obtaining an album in any physical format get it right now. Just like Netflix are shedding some shows, you'll never know when and what music Spotify et al will start shedding. You just don't know.

 

[Covenanter]

I don't think there are many people who are "anti-vinyl". As Vlad suggests there are people like me who are "anti-nonsense". I suspect that were buying contemporary "pop" music I might be into vinyl because, as I read on this forum, so much "pop" music is heavily compressed on CD and other digital media and the vinyl versions do not suffer from this. However, it is a fact that vinyl carries a very heavy price in terms of its inherent weaknesses as a medium. That may well be a trade-off that is worth making for some people and it is their choice. There is no such trade-off with "classical" recordings as they generally don't suffer from compression issues and I cannot see any argument for "classical" music lovers using vinyl unless they have a legacy collection, which some do.

Chris

 

[manicm]

I don't think there are many people who are "anti-vinyl".  As Vlad suggests there are people like me who are "anti-nonsense".  I suspect that were buying contemporary "pop" music I might be into vinyl because, as I read on this forum, so much "pop" music is heavily compressed on CD and other digital media and the vinyl versions do not suffer from this.  However, it is a fact that vinyl carries a very heavy price in terms of its inherent weaknesses as a medium.  That may well be a trade-off that is worth making for some people and it is their choice.  There is no such trade-off with "classical" recordings as they generally don't suffer from compression issues and I cannot see any argument for "classical" music lovers using vinyl unless they have a legacy collection, which some do.

Chris

'Anti-nonsense' is a very loose term, and seems to be rolling out old chestnuts again. My wife's young cousin wants to get into valve hifi now. And I'll bet valves will be another fad or 'nonsense' like the vinyl revival.

You can be 'anti-nonsense' all you want but you won't persuade some very rich, foolish, but also otherwise very educated and intelligent people like my wife's cousin.

As I warned Vladimir, be careful to mix intellect and hifi.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Again, why the jibes?!

 

[Covenanter]

I don't think there are many people who are "anti-vinyl". As Vlad suggests there are people like me who are "anti-nonsense". I suspect that were buying contemporary "pop" music I might be into vinyl because, as I read on this forum, so much "pop" music is heavily compressed on CD and other digital media and the vinyl versions do not suffer from this. However, it is a fact that vinyl carries a very heavy price in terms of its inherent weaknesses as a medium. That may well be a trade-off that is worth making for some people and it is their choice. There is no such trade-off with "classical" recordings as they generally don't suffer from compression issues and I cannot see any argument for "classical" music lovers using vinyl unless they have a legacy collection, which some do.

Chris

'Anti-nonsense' is a very loose term, and seems to be rolling out old chestnuts again. My wife's young cousin wants to get into valve hifi now. And I'll bet valves will be another fad or 'nonsense' like the vinyl revival.

You can be 'anti-nonsense' all you want but you won't persuade some very rich, foolish, but also otherwise very educated and intelligent people like my wife's cousin.

As I warned Vladimir, be careful to mix intellect and hifi.

Of course people can't always be persuaded. However, it is IMO worth countering some of the nonsense that is posted. It is a forum after all and forums are for discussing issues!

Chris

 

[manicm]

No jibes, and the audiophiles will know best technically (being sincere here), I'm just averse to buzzwords in the soup of the day.