The future of music and cd

robg1976

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would like you thoughts on the future of music and cd guys. i know downloads are with us to stay, but i remember when i was young recording from the radio, but we still went out and purchased the cd. why because the cd offerd us something more better quality copy and of course the pride of owning the cd. back then they said recording from tape and radio would kill the music industry but the cd or origional offered us more a quality copy, i think the industry has to offer us more to make us purchase the origional cd, i always buy origional cd's and i strugle to find hd and sacd discs online im sure cd will be with us for sometime as vinyl is, but the industry needs to offer us a better product for us to invest in the music rather than the download

what do you guys think
 
T

the record spot

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Depends which downloads you're talking about - Linn and HD Tracks, possibly Norwegian label 2L all offer high resolution formats. HD Tracks has had issues with source files however (read: they've not been using hi-res material so their quality control slipped, customers haven't been fleeced though and the company have quickly stepped up to the plate). DVD-A and SACD are but footnotes in audio history now, for all intents and purposes. You can still get some RCA Living Stereo SACDs off Amazon UK and for good prices too. Snag 'em while you can.
 
A

Anonymous

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robg1976 said:
we still went out and purchased the cd. why because the cd offerd us something more better quality copy and of course the pride of owning the cd.

As noted this was on another thread!

However the CD is no longer better quality, the modern pop CD is compressed, clipped and has no dynamic range or musical interest at all. The modern CD is an object of derison, not pride - thank's to the record companies who have made them no longer worth buying.
 

Frank Harvey

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I always said that I wouldn't be a part of the download scene, as I would always rather own a hard copy. Since then, several albums by artists I've tried to get hold of have only been available via download, and 96/24 downloads have appeared. The latter has changed my thinking, but it'll only be something that becomes routine to me when 96/24 recordings are universally available. It seems the current HD downloads are mostly hi-fi show music, which is great for showing off your system, but a bit pants if you want to hear 'normal' music.
 
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Anonymous

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Cypher said:
I think (legal) downloading is the future. The CD will be gone eventually.........

For Hi-Fi the popular music CD is already dead.
 

Frank Harvey

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I disagree. Streaming may be the way forward, but I would still say more than 50% of those who come in for demos, still have and use CD players. Some of those are buying new CD players, as they're not interested in streaming at all. One guy came in last week, who said he had several thousand CD's - he said that even if he wanted to stream, he can't be bored to spend the time ripping those to hard disk. I don't blame him.
 

chebby

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I disagree. Streaming may be the way forward, but I would still say more than 50% of those who come in for demos, still have and use CD players.

That's because you are a specialist hifi/AV dealer and only see a tiny cross-section of the 'market' walk through your doors.

Having said that, I still buy CDs to rip to iTunes. I'm buying one now.
 

Dan Turner

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Globs said:
However the CD is no longer better quality, the modern pop CD is compressed, clipped and has no dynamic range or musical interest at all. The modern CD is an object of derison, not pride - thank's to the record companies who have made them no longer worth buying.

...but then a compressed version in a lossy format based on the same source material is obviously worse still. So the fact remains that if you like that source material, then 99% of the time the original CD is the highest quality version available, so anyone who cares about quality above all else will buy that, even if the first and only thing they do with it is to rip it.
 
A

Anonymous

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Dan Turner said:
...but then a compressed version in a lossy format based on the same source material is obviously worse still. So the fact remains that if you like that source material, then 99% of the time the original CD is the highest quality version available, so anyone who cares about quality above all else will buy that, even if the first and only thing they do with it is to rip it.

We are fighting over scraps - lets re-aquaint ourselves of a modern pop CD waveform:

tr2_1_pre400_400.png


and the death of dynamic range:

sc_before.png


Makes changing that mains cable rather academic doesn't it ;)

But here we are, most of us listening to that. A sight that brings a shudder to many, but still pushed by the record company execs. DVD sound is pretty good, but the CD is dead for Hi-Fi, killed by the big labels, except for some very rare stuff - Katie Melua for instance. Fine if you like her, sucks if you don't.
 

Dan Turner

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I totally agree with you globs, but my point remains - if that's the music that you happen to like and you want it in as good quality as is available (even if that is still crap), then you are still going to buy the CD, because the download of the 256kbps MP3 or AAC version is going to sound even worse.
 

Dan Turner

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I totally agree with you globs, but my point remains - if that's the music that you happen to like and you want it in as good quality as is available (even if that is still crap), then you are still going to buy the CD, because the download of the 256kbps MP3 or AAC version is going to sound even worse.
 

MajorFubar

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Globs said:
However the CD is no longer better quality, the modern pop CD is compressed, clipped and has no dynamic range or musical interest at all.
Quite, but so is the download of the exact same music. Those of us who bemoan modern brickwalled mastering techniques, which spew-out flat-lined noise with with no dynamic range, are speaking a different language to most youngsters who have no issue with it, either as a download or as a CD.

For me, treasured albums that I'll listen to seriously again and again, I want on CD or LP. The physical entity is part of the experience for me. Disposable background music to chat to, I'm happy to download.
 

Dan Turner

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Globs - i quite agree, but my point remains that no matter how bad the content sounds on a CD these days, the lossily compressed version will sound even worse by virtue of 9/10 of the data having been chucked away.
 

Sizzers

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To my mind the problem lies with the "yoof" of today - and for the past several years and more - being fed what they're given and accepting it.

Cram it it all in a flashy little toy and hey!, isn't this great! McDonalds (fast food) versus Haute Cuisine (a long lasting, enjoyable experience). I know which I prefer.

Covered elsewhere, but what an eff up they made of SACD. You would have thought Sony (and others) would have learnt their lesson from Betamax, but no. Promote the technology and the "wonders" that it can do; all the wonders of "surround" sound (didn't we go there with quadraphonic on vinyl, needing a new amp PLUS a second set of speakers). If they'd have left it as it was promoting fantastically improved music quality and, okay, you've got to buy a new CDP but you'll still get great enjoyment from your existing CD's (compression aside).

Anyway, rant over and going back to Robert Plant.
 
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Anonymous

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Dan Turner said:
Globs - i quite agree, but my point remains that no matter how bad the content sounds on a CD these days, the lossily compressed version will sound even worse by virtue of 9/10 of the data having been chucked away.

I know what you are saying, but you should compare a well mastered 256k mp3 with a poorly mastered CD - the mastering is far far .. far more important than mp3 or CD.

It might be different if the record companies had adopted SACD properly, but as the CD stands I can well understand why people are happy with MP3s. They've just made their core product _too_ shoddy, and many can't tell the difference. It's a form of Stupicide.
 
A

Anonymous

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Dan Turner said:
Globs - i quite agree, but my point remains that no matter how bad the content sounds on a CD these days, the lossily compressed version will sound even worse by virtue of 9/10 of the data having been chucked away.

I know what you are saying, but you should compare a well mastered 256k mp3 with a poorly mastered CD - the mastering is far far .. far more important than mp3 or CD.

It might be different if the record companies had adopted SACD properly, but as the CD stands I can well understand why people are happy with MP3s. They've just made their core product _too_ shoddy, and many can't tell the difference. It's a form of Stupicide.
 

eggontoast

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I still buy everything on cd then rip to FLAC. The massive leap towards downloading means that there is now thousands of cd's available for £1 :) as people ditch there collections.

With regards to modern pop music I don't generally buy any now as if I do I start to listen, get frustrated with the lack of dynamics, distortion and general poor sound quality then switch it off anyway.

The misses brought the Adele cd the other day, while I was ripping it I had a listen to a couple of the tracks and even this sounded poor. I just don't get why an artist would let there music be butchered with such poor mastering.
 

chebby

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I disagree. Streaming may be the way forward, but I would still say more than 50% of those who come in for demos, still have and use CD players. Some of those are buying new CD players, as they're not interested in streaming at all.

"Streaming may be the way forward..." you're kidding right?

A snippet from Clare's Sonos blog...

"What I can offer is some insight into how Sonos goes about its business – a business that has doubled in size for the past two years, and which is aiming for a $250 million turnover this year."

...$250,000,000 and that's just one company devoted to streaming/multi-room hifi.

Put's things in perspective a bit.

Add in all the people using network players, DACs, computers, NAS drives, iPods/iPhones/iPads and other hifi capable phones, MP3 players and tablets (including some that outsell even Apple's equivalent devices), Spotify, iTunes, Amazon, LastFM, internet radio, AirPlay etc.

It's not "the future" or "the way forward" and there is no "maybe". It's here, it's now. The primacy of the stand-alone CD player (in a traditional 'seperates' system) has surely passed.

Even car manufacturers have begun to drop the CD format.

It might become a bit of an inconvience for me one day if CD manufacture falls off the cliff (I like to buy the CD and rip from them) because CD quality downloads may never happen on a large scale nor encompass as much choice as CDs have. I won't miss the players though.
 
As far back as I care to mention people have been asking the same question. In the early 70s when most were starting to buy proper 2-channel set-ups, and we bought our first cassette player, 8 track came on the scene: "How will this change the way we listen to music?" Little did we all know then that 30 years later we're still debating the same issue.

Cds killed the turntable in the early eighties - but it didn't. The way we listen to music will always be an indivdual thing. Some formats go out of fashion for a while...
 

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