The future of vinyl

[MeanandGreen]

You're cluttering up the thread, you two...(LHC and Mean..)

Totally agree.

I wont be responding to his pig headed insults any more in this thread.

 

[tino]

So the general consensus seems to be that people massively switched to CD because of marketing and hype, and audiophiles have smartened up now and began a vinyl revival as the 'perfect sound forever' drug wore off. Vinyl is clearly the better format for sound quality and sonic immersion, and it's here to stay indefinitely. Also the weak link in a vinyl setup is the TT and the more money and time you invest in it, better your records will sound.

That would be a vinyl lovers 'distorted' summary of events ;-)

 

[tonky]

Give it a rest now - there's no need to use such foul language

tonky

 

[tino]

Double post

 

[Vladimir]

Give it a rest now - there's no need to use such foul language

tonky

You don't seem to mind using it.

 

[tonky]

Like when? That's some comment coming from you! Ridiculous - as and when it suits you

 

[Vladimir]

Like when? That's some comment coming from you! Ridiculous - as and when it suits you

You are one of the worst behaved forum members here. Take your own advice in the future.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Keep it civil please.

I've agreed to just ignore the insults directed towards me as it's a tedious waste of energy to get further involved.

No need for anyone else to start bickering as a result.

 

[tonky]

Pot calling kettle? - except I can't think of any for me

you seem to have taken something somewhere a little personally for some reason. Worst behaved?

Love to see some examples - A bit too much paranoia from you if you respond to a post from me commenting on abusive foul language posting from someone else.

tonky - puzzled mode

 

[Freddy58]

Keep it civil please.

I've agreed to just ignore the insults directed towards me as it's a tedious waste of energy to get further involved.

No need for anyone else to start bickering as a result.

 

[Vladimir]

Pot calling kettle? - except I can't think of any for me

you seem to have taken something somewhere a little personally for some reason. Worst behaved?

Love to see some examples - A bit too much paranoia from you if you respond to a post from me commenting on abusive foul language posting from someone else.

tonky - puzzled mode

Unless I see a scanned diagnosis from a clinic showing that you have memory blackouts, I'll keep bursting your hypocrisy bubbles everytime I see them.

 

[tonky]

True colours shown eh Vlad - keep taking the tablets - don't forget the psychiatric appointments too!

there's a good chap.

tonky (shakes head mode)

 

[Vladimir]

True colours shown eh Vlad - keep taking the tablets - don't forget the psychiatric appointments too!

there's a good chap.

tonky (shakes head mode)

Ouch. You couldn't hold that one in.

Anyway. Back on topic.

 

[Freddy58]

So the general consensus seems to be that people massively switched to CD because of marketing and hype, and audiophiles have smartened up now and began a vinyl revival as the 'perfect sound forever' drug wore off. Vinyl is clearly the better format for sound quality and sonic immersion, and it's here to stay indefinitely. Also the weak link in a vinyl setup is the TT and the more money and time you invest in it, better your records will sound.

Vlad, are you playing a game here?

 

[Andrewjvt]

The point im trying to make and i respect each to their own ways but most english people do not embrace change and look for any excuse not to improve.. - andrewjvt

Hi Andrewjvt - don't quite follow that point - not seen any evidence of this on the forum - explain ? - bit of a narrow viewpoint?               Lots of ridiculous comments from some on this board at times - just another one?

I love modern technology and how it has revolutionised the music listening experience. Lots of choice for everyone - feel free to choose what suits. Vinyl still sounds great ( got rid of mine long ago tho!)  Never bought a download yet either. Internet radio - spotify - cds - streaming off laptop hard drive - all do it for me . Best quality for sure is cd and hard drive streaming - fact! May go for the NAS option in the near future.

cheers tonky

Over the last few months ive read loads of comments aiming at cd play back is better than ripped files in flac on a media center using a dac (im not talking about streaming services).

Points like. Sound quality is better, i prefer to hold the disc in my hand or when i have background music i use the ripped files but when i want to really listen to music i use the cd player(whats the difference?) to even ridiculas ones like its good exercise changing cds. - ive read that as an excuse not to embrace change or in peoples minds the cd player is better than the music file on a laptop.

While i respect everyones different i think the reasons wierd as in my view an excuse as to the fact that some still think that cd player playback is better or superior deep down.

Im just making the point and not judging anyone.

Please dont anyone be sensitive to this.

 

[tonky]

sorry if I misunderstood your pont - no criticism intended from me.

Freddie58 - Call her Moonchild and Epitaph two outstanding tracks from a superb debut album. Greg Lake - outstanding vocalist. Hang on to the Rega Planar.

Vlad - I have a Denon DCD 1550AR - a pre-owned gem.

tonky

 

[Vladimir]

So the general consensus seems to be that people massively switched to CD because of marketing and hype, and audiophiles have smartened up now and began a vinyl revival as the 'perfect sound forever' drug wore off. Vinyl is clearly the better format for sound quality and sonic immersion, and it's here to stay indefinitely. Also the weak link in a vinyl setup is the TT and the more money and time you invest in it, better your records will sound.

Vlad, are you playing a game here?

Is it misleading?

 

[Freddy58]

So the general consensus seems to be that people massively switched to CD because of marketing and hype, and audiophiles have smartened up now and began a vinyl revival as the 'perfect sound forever' drug wore off. Vinyl is clearly the better format for sound quality and sonic immersion, and it's here to stay indefinitely. Also the weak link in a vinyl setup is the TT and the more money and time you invest in it, better your records will sound.

Vlad, are you playing a game here?

Is it misleading?

It seems like you're deliberately overstating, to set up someone for a fall? My apologies if not.

 

[Vladimir]

So the general consensus seems to be that people massively switched to CD because of marketing and hype, and audiophiles have smartened up now and began a vinyl revival as the 'perfect sound forever' drug wore off. Vinyl is clearly the better format for sound quality and sonic immersion, and it's here to stay indefinitely. Also the weak link in a vinyl setup is the TT and the more money and time you invest in it, better your records will sound.

Vlad, are you playing a game here?

Is it misleading?

It seems like you're deliberately overstating, to set up someone for a fall? My apologies if not.

The questions were pretty simple. Why did audiophiles switch from vinyl to CDs, and why they are switching back again to vinyl, all at considerable financial expense. Audiophiles in a broad sense as a niche market.

 

[manicm]

I obviously started out collecting vinyl while about 11 years old, still have our Technics slq 202 deck which still works and believe would blow modern budget decks from Rega/Project into the weeds.

Late teens picked up a cdp and I don't believe things are clear cut. To David from FH I think your generalisation is just not true when you dig in the 90s. I don't believe the Thomas Dolby produced Jordan: The Comeback album by Prefab Sprout in 1990 would sound better on vinyl than on CD. The beautiful and modern production just sees to that.

On the other hand, no pun hand on heart, the original vinyl Dark Side Of The Moon sounds the best, and I've heard all the countless remastered CDs.

Funnily though I think Led Zeppelin IV cd I picked up in 1991 sounds better than the mini LP cd remaster I picked up in 2005. That early CD just sounds great.

For some other reason I've preferred The Seeds Of
Love album on vinyl, and I've had this album on tape, vinyl and cd.

I think a Linn engineer on their forum had a point when he expressed an opinion that older recordings sound better on vinyl and modern ones on digital.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I think a Linn engineer on their forum had a point when he expressed an opinion that older recordings sound better on vinyl and modern ones on digital.

I don't think that's true always, but it's not a bad general rule.

I tend to go for CDs for Electronica and ambient stuff, and anything with a warmth and soul, I try to get on vinyl. Ambient stuff can be warm, but it's creating an atmosphere, one which can be ruined by a lot of pops and clicks, or even occasional ones. Electronic music tends to be digital music, so CDs are probably the natural home for it.

 

[matt49]

I think most were suckered in by the "perfect sound forever" tag line, and the fact you could handle CDs while making a jam sandwich. Everything was going "digital" in the 80s, so this seemed a natural progression for audio. I have to admit I was part of this, being the impressionable teenager I was at the time, but I didn't sell my records. I didn't really buy any in the late 80s, but started buying used vinyl in the early 90s.

Many others were used to using budget turntables that sat on top of towering midi systems, which were just pieces of mass produced plastic - low quality parts and poor geometry, creating wow and flutter and excessive surface noise, and probably wore records out like nobody's business.

A word mentioned a few posts back is spot on - people were taken in by CD's clarity, not necessarily its quality - we already had that quality, but for a lot of people it was just being poorly reproduced on plastic slabs. As turntables have continued to improve, people are now hearing more of how their vinyl should've sounded, and it is better than it ever was. They're realising that background noise isn't necessarily inherent on the record, but is produced by the turntable. There are still many who are buying cheap tat, thinking a turntables is a turntable - i think they are the people who should be questioned as to why they are bothering with such an archaic format.

As already mentioned, vinyl now seems to possess better dynamic range, particularly against recent remastered CDs, but I doubt that accounts for that many as the majority probably aren't even aware of that.

What I don't get is the teenager thing, and that teenagers are only doing it because it's retro and cool. I hear too many stories of teenagers getting into vinyl AFTER hearing someone else's system. I don't get why teenagers would bother with records even if they are considered cool.

The problem is that when people write like this they make it sound like vinyl is for complete snobs and digital is for the great unwashed. There's probably a grain of truth in that.

 

[knaithrover]

Why some say its better to get up and down sticking in cds rather than playing the exact same music files from a media player. Whats the difference?

I use both, but for me I like the 'on', 'open/close' & 'play' of a CD.

No software updates, no wifi connection, no distracting displays to navigate, something to hold in your hand and read as you play the disc.

Any of that what you complain about - thats the point. Do you really hold the cd cover and read it while you listen to music?

The point im trying to make and i respect each to their own ways but most english people do not embrace change and look for any excuse not to improve.

When you put a cd in you are restricted to only that cd. If you just hit random on the media player you never know whats song/artist/genre is going to play so comes a suprise. For me it has increased my enjoyment of listening to music much more than the old fashioned pick it up, put it in, sit down. For me i know we all different - just cant understand the difference. And annoying displays?? Where are they?

Anyway its time to enjoy 500ml of beer

Like I say, I also use an iTunes library as well as CD & Vinyl. I take full of advantage of long and varied playlists played from either my computer or iPod both of which are connected to a DAC and then to my system. It is great having the facility to do that, but if I just want to listen to a particular album I'd rather play the disc.

In playing the disc I don't have to turn on a computer or similar smart device on and wait for it to start up.

Neither do I, my music is stored on a NAS and played using Sonos, both of which are always on. Assuming I've left a queue loaded I can just walk past a Sonos player and hit play and the music is instant. I've never seen a CD player that doesn't take a few seconds to spin up the CD before it starts playing.

There are never ever any updates to wait for, (everything that runs on software has to do this at some point).

Yes, Sonos has updates, but they're never forced and never required before you can play music, so you can wait until a later time when you're doing something else (it's one button press and the system does the rest itself).

It's all down to personal preference.

Personally I have no desire to go down the NAS or Sonos route. I shared a NAS drive with my ex, when we split up I let her keep it as I never used it. I couldn't see the point in streaming my music over wifi when I had music storage devices hard wired to the hifi. I also don't like devices left switched on, it's noisy and wasteful of energy. Plus for safety reasons I don't like stuff on and running in an unattended house.

iTunes doesn't force updates either, but the tango remote app I use must be up to date across all my iOS devices sometimes I have to update a device seperately if it hasn't automatically done so. It's not a huge issue, but it is something that never ever has to be done with physical media.

If I buy a new CD I can open it and play it straight away, I don't have to rip it before I can hear it.

I can see why music storage is a good thing and how it is popular, like I said I do use digital storage myself. My entire physical collection is ripped to iTunes including my vinyl as well as CD collection. I often create playlists and play them no hassle at all.

I don't see why people can't also enjoy playing physical formats alongside storage or streaming formats?

It's like this for me. If I want background music whilst vacuuming, or pottering about, or making dinner etc... I go for a playlist. I can control it from my iPad wherever I am in the house, great! If I want to chill on my sofa with an album and a cup of tea then it's CD or vinyl for me.

Why is it those who only play music via a network feel the need to convert others who don't need nor want converted? What is so wrong with playing a CD?

I watch Netflix, so should I no longer play DVD's or Blu Ray discs?

This isn't aimed at any particular person, but a few of you seem dead against playing a physical format and I can't see why?

I currently use vinyl, cd, stored files via Nas, Tidal, Spotify and my ipod 160gb as sources. How much I use each depends on which room I'm in and how much time I have. Sticking to 1 source limits choice, I like choices

 

[Frank Harvey]

The problem is that when people write like this they make it sound like vinyl is for complete snobs and digital is for the great unwashed. There's probably a grain of truth in that.

Whats "snobby" about describing a piece of mass produced plastic as a piece of mass produced plastic?! If you didn't pick it up from my post, I'm talking about decks like the midi sized turntables that came with (or were available as an option in the 90s) "stacked" mini systems. They really were awful. Even I started out with a piece of plastic - I think it was a JVC QLA110 (from RS - we all start somewhere!). My mate had the QLA220 which was direct drive rather than my belt drive, but for some reason, thought mine sounded slightly better. It sounded really good at the time, but early 80s plastic was nowhere near as bad as they were still pretty well built back then. I moved onto an Ariston Q Deck a few years later. When I refer to modern cheap tat, you can include the Crosleys, a decent modern deck being about £200 up. Hey, there's a Crosley 'hate thread' up - pop over and call them all snobs!

Your comment is like calling someone snobby because they prefer to buy certain foods from M&S because it tastes better. And yes, I buy soup from there, and "Hand Crafted Italian Black Olive Flatbreads" - does that also make me a snob?! I buy some other flatbreads from Poundland. If you're going to try and dig at me, pick on something a little more meaty than that.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I tend to go for CDs for Electronica and ambient stuff, and anything with a warmth and soul, I try to get on vinyl. Ambient stuff can be warm, but it's creating an atmosphere, one which can be ruined by a lot of pops and clicks, or even occasional ones. Electronic music tends to be digital music, so CDs are probably the natural home for it.

Although vinyl can sound silent on some decks when it is looked after, I partially agree here. Quieter electronic stuff I will always get on CD (means I can use it for demo too), but if it's a little more energetic and like it a lot I might also pick up the vinyl (like the Social Network soundtracks). I'm currently listening to an electronic album by Alva Noto, which would probably sound great on vinyl, but it extremely quite in many places, and it's those atmospheric silences you don't want broken by a sudden pop, however small.