Technics sl 7 not loud enough?

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

I'm a new owner of a Technics sl 7, it was a local deal so I had the chance to listen a demo and it sounded good, loud enough with an old amplifier... When I got home and connected to the phono of the Yamaha r-n500, I couldn't hear a thing... I had to put the volume to maximum to hear something... The groundwire of the turntable is connected to the chassis of the amplifier. The amplifier drives a pair of Dynaudio DM 2/7. I read that Yamaha has an MM preamp, the cartridge on the turntable is a technics p22.
I believe is a mismatch of the technical characteristics, I have here the details, maybe the info is there but I don't have the knowledge to find it so maybe someone can help me, please:

Technics EPC P22

Type
moving magnet Output Voltage
2.5 mV Frequency Response
20Hz - 35kHz Tracking Force
1.0 - 1.5g Mass
6g
Channel Separation
22dB Channel Balance
Load Impedance
47k ohms Output Impedance
Stylus
EPS-22ES Stylus Tip
elliptical 0.3 x 0.7mil Cantilever
pure boron pipe Dynamic Compliance
12 x 10-6cm/Dyne Static Compliance
Notes
P Mount

Yamaha r-n 500

Phono MM : 3.5 mV / 47 k-ohms
Réponse en fréquence : CD,etc. (20 Hz–20 kHz / 10 Hz–100 kHz) 0 ± 0.5 dB / 0 ± 1.0 dB
Distorsion harmonique totale (20 Hz–20 kHz) :
- CD, etc. vers Speaker Out : 0,015% (40 W / 8 ohms)
- Phono MM vers Rec Out : 0,025% (3 V)
Ratio Signal/Bruit :
- CD, etc. (200 mV, Entrée Contournée) : 100 dB
- (Réseau IHF-A Network) Phono MM (5 mV, Entrée Contournée) : 87 dB
Amplification
Puissance maximale (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 0,7 % THD) : 105 W + 105 W
Puissance nominale (8 ohms, 20 Hz—20 kHz, 0.04% THD) : 80 W + 80 W
Puissance maximale (JEITA) (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD) : 115 W + 115 W
Puissance dynamique/cn. (8/6/4/2 ohms) : 105 W/125 W/150 W/178 W

The old owner kept saying that I need an analog amplifier.
Changing the cartridge would help?

 

[MajorFubar]

If it worked when you heard it demo'd, it sounds more like the fault is at your end, or with the interconnect cable, which if I remember correctly, is removable. Though of course it's entirely possible a turntable of that vintage has simply just developed a fault. There's no pre-amplification in the SL-7 but the output to its phono sockets is muted when the stylus raises, and if it's somehow stuck on mute, this would manifest itself as the near-silence you describe. I haven't seen the schematics so I don't know whether muting is achieved by a relay or by some other means. If you try all the obvious checks, such as a new interconnect and verifying the phono-input on your amp isn't faulty, the problem could lie with the muting-circuit, or with some other break in the link between the cartridge and the phono-sockets. As always, fault-finding is just a matter of elimination, there's no magic to it.

 

[drummerman]

I use an SL-7 on occasions. A fantastic turntable.

Whilst I have changed the cartridge even the original had no difficulty with either a separate MM phone pre-amp or the one built into my Receiver.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

I will take every option at a time, although I don't believe to be stucked on mute, when I say "I hear something" I mean I can hear it good at max volume, but very slowly... At this volume, the others sources will break down the windows but the turntable is like listening at midnight with someone sleeping in the othe room... If I'm allowed I can post a link to a youtube video. Thanks!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

Reading through the forums I came across on some of your posts, drummerman, and one it says about ordering better RCA leads.. If I have to change them, do you have some suggestions? I know I have to take care of the MM specifications, but other than that? Can't find an RCA interconnector open at the other end, are there any or do I have to open it myself?

 

[drummerman]

That won't solve your problem but yes, it is possible (with great care) and yes, you have to open one.

This is a tricky proceedure. If you are experienced with a solder iron go for it but it is very easy to damage the thin circuit board tracks as the solder points are very (!) close together. To much heat and ... . How do I know? I damaged it myself but managed to repair the track.

It may be worth to take your amplifier to a dealer which sells Turntables to establish whether your stage is kaputt first.

In any case, a super piece of engineering, absolutely solidly built (with the exception of the plastic hooks on the lid, my advise is to push the open/close button in before opening ... .)

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100002228099278]

Stupid question perhaps, but I can see the output voltage is 2.5mV, and your amp needs min. 3.5mV. Isn't it possible that this is the problem?

IMHO changing the cartridge to one with a higher output voltage would help.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

I was also thinking it's more of a technical incompatibility and as I read on the forums regarding the subject, I found that many people had same problem with low output cartridges... so I'm tempted to try a cheap AT entry level like 92ECD with 3.5mV like the amplifier's specifications and see how it works! Thanks, not a stupid question at all!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

Yes, drummerman, I guess it won't solve my problem, I was referring to this procedure more like a bonus; I just saw that you did it and thought it might bring some plus to the performance of the turntable. I'm just preparing in advance my adventure of opening & servicing the turntable and I wouldn't want to ruin it, even if I payed silly money for it, thanks for the advices! But now I fell in the RCA Phono / interconnects debate and I don't know if any cable would do the job, as long as I take care of the MM specifications...

 

[MajorFubar]

Here's another idea. If you're still using the original Technics T4P cartridge and stylus, try removing and refitting both the stylus from the cartridge and the cartridge from the tonearm. It's possible the stylus isn't pushed fully home into the cartridge, which would also give rise to the symptoms. Both stylus and cartridge are a push-fit, but IIRC the cartridge is held in place with a nut on the side of the tonearm. The cartridge is very easy to remove and re-fit with the nut unscrewed, that was one of the principles of the T4P system: easy and quick interchangeabilty.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

Here's another idea. If you're still using the original Technics T4P cartridge and stylus, try removing and refitting both the stylus from the cartridge and the cartridge from the tonearm. It's possible the stylus isn't pushed fully home into the cartridge, which would also give rise to the symptoms. Both stylus and cartridge are a push-fit, but IIRC the cartridge is held in place with a nut on the side of the tonearm. The cartridge is very easy to remove and re-fit with the nut unscrewed, that was one of the principles of the T4P system: easy and quick interchangeabilty.

That was it, great support MajorFubar, thanks a lot! The stylus was not perfectly in place, just a small space between them was enough to drive to this problem. Pushed it back and it sounds just like I heard it at the old owner!

Though when I removed the cartridge and replaced the stylus I noticed some dust and signs of wear over time to the cartridge, I guess it was never changed. After reading this very interesting post: http://www.hifi-advice.com/Turntable-Comparison-Linear-vs-Pivot-review.html
I had from the beginning of purchasing this machine the intention to change the stylus to a Jico one to get the most of the turntable, now that I see the condition of the cartridge I wonder if it's not better to change also the cartridge with a EPC-P540, an AT or something else?

 

[ifor]

I purchased the Jico SAS for mine. Very pleased.

 

[MajorFubar]

That was it, great support MajorFubar, thanks a lot! The stylus was not perfectly in place, just a small space between them was enough to drive to this problem. Pushed it back and it sounds just like I heard it at the old owner!

You're welcome. I'm so glad it was such an easy fix. Enjoy.

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm a big fan of the OMP10 I have in my SL-6. Not as plummy and warm sounding as the original, but IMO in every other respect a much better cartridge: more detail, better seperation. The problem is finding a good OM P-mount cartridge body, I suspect they are NLA new. But if you find one second hand it doesn't matter how shot the styus is because it takes the same stylii as the regular OM catridges, so of course you can follow the same upgrade paths by buying eg Stylus 20.

 

[ifor]

OMP 20, 30 and 40 cartridges are available from William Thakker.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

I purchased the Jico SAS for mine. Very pleased.

Sounds great, with double meaning! But I guess wayyy over my budget! I hope one day to hear one SAS...

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1367058312]

Thanks guys for all your suport, I'll keep in mind the suggestions but unfortunatelly my budget is not very big for this project.. Ortofon sounds very good MajorFubar, but even the OMP10 is around 100 euros, not to mention the OMP20 or 30 ifor suggested... I'll stick with a new Technics one for the beggining and I'll change only the stylus for a Jico one. I'll keep an eye on a good deal for a OMP10 if it appears, meanwhile I'll do a complete service and maybe new & better RCA phono leads.