Taming Treble with Cables?

[JMac]

I've been listening to my system more than usual for the last few days as I've been working from home and one think that I dont like is the treble. It can sound really bright and sharp on some tracks, overly so. I dare say its to do with the amount of silver used in my terminals and internal wiring but I'm willing to see if I can do anything about it. I can use the tone function on my CP-800 to wind it down some but would prefer not to have to.

So for those of you who (unlike me) believe in the effect of interconnets and speaker cable (which I do believe can alter the sound) what would you recommend? Speaker cable is currently QED XT40.

 

[insider9]

I'd suggest looking at room setup. Particularly speaker placement and toe-in. Maybe use grilles too.

There's so many more effective ways of dealing with it than changing cables.

 

[JMac]

I'd suggest looking at room setup. Particularly speaker placement and toe-in. Maybe use grilles too.

There's so many more effective ways of dealing with it than changing cables.

Room setup could be an issue but I'm looking at moving later in the year so would be loathe to spend any money on that at the moment. As the speakers are custom made grills arent available. Toe in is approximately 20 degrees from firing straight down the room. I listen nearfield with the speakers 2m away from me. The toe in has the drivers firing slightly behind me.

 

[insider9]

Try them firing straight with no toe-in at all. That might be the cheapest solution that will solve your issue.

 

[davedotco]

Many of the vdH speaker and interconnect cables use carbon as part of their conductor, in my experience this tends to give a very smooth high frequency presentation, particularly on the interconnects. My experience is of their slightly older models, but since the construction and 'technology' remains the same I would expect similar characteristics from the current crop.

Just a thought. Given that these are kit speakers, why not find a way to knock a dB or so off the tweeter?

 

[CnoEvil]

You could try QED 79 Strand or Van Damme UP LC OFC. On the I/C front, Linn Black from ebay. Van den Hul also have a reputation for not being bright. Linn K20 is another option (Ebay).

 

[ellisdj]

could be freq response related you might have peak somewhere causing the brightness. Very possible.

Messing with toe in might help with this and then you will know - can fix this with Dirac Live or similar.

I think try a good mains conditioning product, XT40 is good cable but you can get much better if you want to try.
Audioquest cable is worth demoing castlerock and oak are both excellent.

Another suggestion is if you have dual or more speaker binding posts swop the brass or whatever they have used for some proper jumpers. Audioquest Jupiter are good.

I don't think it will be the speaker cable that's causing it as I use XT40 for my rear speakers and I don't get any hardness or bright sound at all.

 

[Deleted member 160668]

Interesting thread...

ive just swapped out my QED Silver Anniversary for some cheap as chips multistrand ofc Cable. Sound difference is marked. So much so I swapped it back and forth a few times to check.

I far prefer the cheap cable to the QED!!

Im probably gonna pick up some K20 as it’s inexpensive and has done me well on previous systems.

I shall follow this thread with interest though as I’ve not yet ordered my replacement.

 

[CnoEvil]

ive just swapped out my QED Silver Anniversary for some cheap as chips multistrand ofc Cable. Sound difference is marked. So much so I swapped it back and forth a few times to check.

I far prefer the cheap cable to the QED!!

You are not the first person on here to find that.

I see that the QED XT40 is all copper, whereas the XT400 is Silver Coated....so I don't know if the latter has lost some of the edginess associated with their silver coated stuff.

 

[gasolin]

Those QED speaker cables i have tried sounded harsh in the top, try supra classic 6.0

 

[JMac]

I might start with the Dirac Live and work from there. I've been wanting something resembling a dsp solution for a while now and for the price of a microphone its worth testing. Does anyone know how long the trial lasts for? The advantage is that I can take it with me when I move

 

[insider9]

One month on Mac. However should you contact the and ask for more time they should extend it.

 

[insider9]

Ok for anyone who would like to try Google NYY-J cables. Got mine from TLC. I'd suggest getting 4 core if speakers have LF and HF terminals. Solid core 2.5mm2 works best but be aware these won't bend easily.

I've gone from Chord Odyssey 2 to these.

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok for anyone who would like to try Google NYY-J cables. Got mine from TLC. I'd suggest getting 4 core if speakers have LF and HF terminals. Solid core 2.5mm2 works best but be aware these won't bend easily.

I've gone from Chord Odyssey 2 to these.

....and have you been placebo'd into hearing a difference? If so, can you measure it?

 

[andyjm]

The elephant in the room if you subscribe to the 'cables are really filters and I can adjust the tonal balance of my system by changing cables' school of thought is that no one ever mentions cable length.

Now, as an ex engineer, if I suspend my disbelief about the effect of cables, the point at which I lose track of the argument entirely is around is cable length. Unless cables exhibit some hitherto undiscovered property, doubling the length will double the effect (what ever it is).

Now, perhaps length doesn't need to come into the discussion (why let facts get in the way of a good argument), but as a geniune question to all of those who subscribe to this belief, why does no one mention cable length in these discussions?

 

[Al ears]

The elephant in the room if you subscribe to the 'cables are really filters and I can adjust the tonal balance of my system by changing cables' school of thought is that no one ever mentions cable length.

Now, as an ex engineer, if I suspend my disbelief about the effect of cables, the point at which I lose track of the argument entirely is around is cable length. Unless cables exhibit some hitherto undiscovered property, doubling the length will double the effect (what ever it is).

Now, perhaps length doesn't need to come into the discussion (why let facts get in the way of a good argument), but as a geniune question to all of those who subscribe to this belief, why does no one mention cable length in these discussions?

Probably because people only evaluate cables of a fixed length, certainly when it comes to interconnects but often speaker cable as well. Nobody is going to buy a 10m cable when they only need 2m

 

[plastic penguin]

@JMac

Reading your initial post, you normally don't your kit on a regular basis, otherwise if it was bright you would notice from minute one.

IME cables do sound slightly different tonally, not to the extent of taming bright or harsh presentation.

As I'm not familiar with any of your kit I can't offer advice, other than experimenting with speaker positioning.

 

[JMac]

I suppose I've always noticed it but because I've been listening for shorter durations its been more tolerable.

 

[BigH]

I've been listening to my system more than usual for the last few days as I've been working from home and one think that I dont like is the treble. It can sound really bright and sharp on some tracks, overly so. I dare say its to do with the amount of silver used in my terminals and internal wiring but I'm willing to see if I can do anything about it. I can use the tone function on my CP-800 to wind it down some but would prefer not to have to.

So for those of you who (unlike me) believe in the effect of interconnets and speaker cable (which I do believe can alter the sound) what would you recommend? Speaker cable is currently QED XT40.

Maybe it's the recording? If you tame the treble on those tracks then others which were fine may sound dull.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Try them firing straight with no toe-in at all. That might be the cheapest solution that will solve your issue.

Try this before investing in Dirac Live.

I might start with the Dirac Live and work from there. I've been wanting something resembling a dsp solution for a while now and for the price of a microphone its worth testing. Does anyone know how long the trial lasts for? The advantage is that I can take it with me when I move

I have Dirac Live. From memory the trial lasts 30 days. To get the best results, you should put some effort into optimising the speaker and listening positions before you apply it, although its measurements will certainly help with positioning. I also think that Dirac Live sounds best if you limit it to tidying up the bass. If you run it full range, it does have a tendency to eliminate the character of the speakers and other equipment. This is pretty good evidence that it works as advertised, but with hifi those little colourations are often the reason why we choose one piece of equipment over another.

 

[ellisdj]

How can it mask the character of any kit by improving the freq response at the MLP and improving the impulse response of the speaker?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

How can it mask the character of any kit by improving the freq response at the MLP and improving the impulse response of the speaker?

I am not sure what you mean by MLP here. Main listening position?

Just as an example, if you take two different speakers, one with a flat response and the other with a bit of midrange lift, then generate and apply Dirac filters using the same target curve, the two speakers will sound (and measure) more alike than they did before, at least from the main listening or wherever you placed the microphone. They probably will still not sound exactly alike, as there are other variables in play, but they will sound more alike than they did before.

 

[ellisdj]

Also better translation of sound at the listening positon means your hearing more of the kits true sound.

If bits of kit are designed with a specific freq curve yes you are messing with that - but the room messes with it far far more so it doesnt mean your masking the kits sound with a Dirac curve per say.

I would guess most kit is designed to have a flat freq response - that is a guess but if it is - then no harm is done

 

[ellisdj]

That's speakers not electronics - I actually put what your suggesting here to the test recently reviewing B&W 705 S2 speakers.

In my room they had a freq response kick at about 4khz from memory of about 4db not huge but significant - so in the Dirac target curve adjustment I left it in just in case it was designed to be like that.

The speakers sounded terrible like this - metallic, and not nice at all, it was obvious this was not designed in but if someone had demo'd these speakers in my room they would have thought they sounded poor when actually once corrected they sounded excellent.

I think if once you measure the in room response and if it looks like what the manufacturer intended, if you can get access to that data, then you wont need to apply any correction, but I would assume 99.99% of the time the in room response wont look anything like how it was intended.

The KEF Ref range is a great example - designed to have a freq reponse tolerance of 0.5db from 40hz upwards or somehting simialr - you will need some room to get that at the main listening position

 

[ellisdj]

another thing to factor in is the response you see from Dirac Live has 1/8 smoothing applied - this is a glossier version of the real thing.

Take the graph smoothing away and the result is very different and quite shocking - Insider will atest to that - its eye ball popping out, heart breaking shocking in my experience