Taming Treble with Cables?

[Strictly Stereo]

another thing to factor in is the response you see from Dirac Live has 1/8 smoothing applied - this is a glossier version of the real thing.

Take the graph smoothing away and the result is very different and quite shocking - Insider will atest to that - its eye ball popping out, heart breaking shocking in my experience

Good point. I actually prefer to use REW for positioning, most of the time using 1/24 octave smoothing to balance legibility with granularity.

 

[ellisdj]

If your setting up speakers using REW thats good skills

 

[Strictly Stereo]

That's speakers not electronics - I actually put what your suggesting here to the test recently reviewing B&W 705 S2 speakers.

In my room they had a freq response kick at about 4khz from memory of about 4db not huge but significant - so in the Dirac target curve adjustment I left it in just in case it was designed to be like that.

The speakers sounded terrible like this - metallic, and not nice at all, it was obvious this was not designed in but if someone had demo'd these speakers in my room they would have thought they sounded poor when actually once corrected they sounded excellent.

I used speakers in my example, but Dirac is actually compensating for colourations introduced by the DAC, amplifier, speakers and any other downstream components in the playback chain, and of course the room.

I take your point about using Dirac with the 705S2. Every case is different. One of the great features in Dirac Live is its ability to generate multiple filters from the same set of measurements and allow you to quickly switch between them.

I think if once you measure the in room response and if it looks like what the manufacturer intended, if you can get access to that data, then you wont need to apply any correction, but I would assume 99.99% of the time the in room response wont look anything like how it was intended.

The KEF Ref range is a great example - designed to have a freq reponse tolerance of 0.5db from 40hz upwards or somehting simialr - you will need some room to get that at the main listening position

Yes, exactly. I have the Dutch & Dutch 8c here which measures from 30Hz to 20kHz +/-1dB in an anechoic chamber. Obviously, it is not quite this flat in an untreated listening room.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Also better translation of sound at the listening positon means your hearing more of the kits true sound.

If bits of kit are designed with a specific freq curve yes you are messing with that - but the room messes with it far far more so it doesnt mean your masking the kits sound with a Dirac curve per say.

I would guess most kit is designed to have a flat freq response - that is a guess but if it is - then no harm is done

Actually, what you are hearing is more of the music's true sound, by compensating for the effects of the kit and the room. Dirac cannot distinguish between errors introduced by the kit and errors introduced by the room. Granted the room is likely to be the major cause of such errors.

I think it is safe to say that most manufacturers aim for a flat frequency response, but every speaker manufacturer knows that the in room response will be anything but flat.

 

[ellisdj]

Those Dutch and Dutch are interesting designs - in what way do you think Dirac effects the dac, amplifier etc?

Its before all of those in the chain so its just sending a signal same as from a source to the dac then onwards?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

One option which can provide really good results, both objectively via measurements and subjectively via listening, is to use a mixture of EQ and physical room treatment. The combination of Dirac or DSPeaker Anti-Mode from about 250-300Hz down and absorbant acoustic panels at the first reflection points give great results without filling the room with huge bass traps.

 

[ellisdj]

That is not a bad approach but its not a guarantee to the fix the issue I had with the 705S2 which could well be the same problem the op has got in this thread.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Those Dutch and Dutch are interesting designs - in what way do you think Dirac effects the dac, amplifier etc?

Its before all of those in the chain so its just sending a signal same as from a source to the dac then onwards?

Dirac is measuring and correcting for the combined effect of the entire downstream playback chain. By far the biggest factor will be the speaker/room interaction, but in theory, the measurements will also capture any colouration in the DAC, amplifier etc.

In practice, most modern DACs and amplifiers have a very flat response.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

That is not a bad approach but its not a guarantee to the fix the issue I had with the 705S2 which could well be the same problem the op has got in this thread.

Like I said - every case is different. If that 4kHz peak is an issue with the speaker, rather than the room, then physical room treatment will not help. Dirac of course can correct such problems easily.

 

[JMac]

I've had my speakers firing straight down the room before, didnt like it. The soundstage wasnt focused and it just didnt sound 'right'. The slight toe in has helped this but maybe I can try toeing out a little more. All other variables are static I'm afraid. Listening position cant be changed as its my office desk, distance from speakers is constant at approx 2m. I needed a microphone anyway for a recording project (the other half plays in brass bands and wants to record one the rehearsels for something or other..) so the fact that you can trial the dirac is useful.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

I've had my speakers firing straight down the room before, didnt like it. The soundstage wasnt focused and it just didnt sound 'right'. The slight toe in has helped this but maybe I can try toeing out a little more. All other variables are static I'm afraid. Listening position cant be changed as its my office desk, distance from speakers is constant at approx 2m. I needed a microphone anyway for a recording project (the other half plays in brass bands and wants to record one the rehearsels for something or other..) so the fact that you can trial the dirac is useful.

The highest frequencies will tend to radiate out from the front of the speaker in a tight beam, so even a few degrees difference can have a marked effect on the tonal balance at the listening position.

 

[ellisdj]

For dirac you want a UMIK1 really - not sure what this will be like recording audio as you intend to do with it as well and how you would go about it - you might be able to record directly into a phone easier than anything else