Macspur said:
Thanks Mac. Yes, I've been thinking the AMS 35i might be going too far, so I've decided to go with the IA4.
Thanks Mac. Yes, I've been thinking the AMS 35i might be going too far, so I've decided to go with the IA4.
Roby
Well-known member
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
- 10
- 18,545
Singslinger said:
Well well well...
It's truly a hard question
Tu me if you compare in Belgium the normal retail price of the AMS is 7500 & an the AI4 5500.
I really enjoyed the demo of the sugden an it isteally not far behind. At full price I'm not shure AMS would have been my choice an even if I had the feeling it was slightly better in each department. An in this case the price difference is arround 25%
But In admit the limited budget at the time was a factor sertenly because I was seriously strugling with the amount of money I was going to spend more than with the money it self.
But at the time if I didn't have the discount on my ams I would have chosen the Sugden it's a beautifull amp natural detailed fresh with a superb vocal an bass capacity an if you ever thinking about changing your speakers give proarc a shot I heard the sugden with D18 wich was amazing my guess is D28 will be mind blowing....
Considering the source during the demo was a Cambridge Azure 650 cdp there is certenly room for improvment there.
So to be honest not shur how to compare AMS & AI4 30% is overrated IMO I would say 20% more or less.
In what I heart solid stat amps my ranking would be
M6I (I heard nothing better under 5500€)
AI4 (nothing better under 7500€)
AMS35i (nothing better under dreamy expensive ;-) )
Oké this is really personal but I Tested quite a few amps in the last 2years but those are the amp's I think about when I demo an an compare stuff, because they made me forget the analitical part we can have an just made meenjoy music an forget the rest.
But like I said personal an it depend of the budget an what you're prepared tospend of course.
So my opinion if the sugden is you're budget limit it's almost a blind pushase...
Enjoy you music
(AMS is better I agree Ceno I know why I bought it ;-) but not worth duble the price)
Many thanks Roby for sharing your experiences and analysis.
To be perfectly honest, I could stretch my budget to the M35i but since I have already heard the Sugden driving my Spendors and am happy with the sound, I think I better stick with it.
I could then use the extra $ saved to upgrade the source and cables and maybe even get better stands for the speakers.
Cheers!
To be perfectly honest, I could stretch my budget to the M35i but since I have already heard the Sugden driving my Spendors and am happy with the sound, I think I better stick with it.
I could then use the extra $ saved to upgrade the source and cables and maybe even get better stands for the speakers.
Cheers!
Roby said:
It's certainly not worth double.
I put 30 to 33% for two reasons:
- IMO. It sounds better in every department. Bass is noticeably better and the mid range is a little more natural and less well lit.
- The 35i doubles its power into 4 Ohms (70W), and again into 2 Ohms; whereas the Sugden only gives about 45W into 4 Ohms. This means the MF will handle difficult speaker loads more easily due to the extra current available.
I'm not having a go, but clarifying the logic behind my thinking.
Have you considered naim pre powers singslinger. Having owned a naim integrated in the past i can tell you that the pre powers are less in your face and certainly better at low level late night listening. I cant say whether this will be true of the more expensive pre powers (thinking nac 202 nap 200 ) as i have not heard them but was certainly true going from a nait 5i to my current amps.
Roby
Well-known member
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
- 10
- 18,545
CnoEvil said:Roby said:
It's certainly not worth double.
I put 30 to 33% for two reasons:
- IMO. It sounds better in every department. Bass is noticeably better and the mid range is a little more natural and less well lit.
- The 35i doubles its power into 4 Ohms (70W), and again into 2 Ohms; whereas the Sugden only gives about 45W into 4 Ohms. This means the MF will handle difficult speaker loads more easily due to the extra current available.
I'm not having a go, but clarifying the logic behind my thinking.
Thans that explains it
I agree with you whan you say the AMS have just this little bit more in every department an Alex can back me up here
It's actualy one of the first things I said to him during the Sugden demo.
How you put this in digit's it's hard an provably personal
I mean meybe I still take the money part to much in consideration compared to the sound department... (shame on me)
But I can find my self in what you say here.
Roby said:Thans that explains it
I agree with you whan you say the AMS have just this little bit more in every department an Alex can back me up here
It's actualy one of the first things I said to him during the Sugden demo.
How you put this in digit's it's hard an provably personal
I mean meybe I still take the money part to much in consideration compared to the sound department... (shame on me)
But I can find my self in what you say here.
It is very personal. Sometimes it takes living with a piece of kit for a month to realize just how good it is ie. In the very subtle ways that may have gone unnoticed in the audition.
There is also the fact that, as your system gets better and better, the differences can be magnified.
I suspect, that if after listening to the Avalons for a month with your new TT, and you then inserted the Sugden, you would realize the full extent of the difference.
As has been said many times, a system is about balance, not just in terms of sound, but also in terms of cost. I suspected you had caught the bug and really wanted to push the envelope, which is why I suggested the better amp, which would then keep up with the extraordinary pace of change.
There is also the fact that you've happened to hook up with the wrong person, if your aim was to avoid temptation!!
Singslinger said:
I did home demo a used (not in particularly good condition) AMS earlier in the year, just to satisfy my curiosity after reading so much about it and like I said, a superb amp.
However, I decided against the change from Sugden for a few reasons... yes, the SQ is excellent, but in my small listening room it would have been a case of overkill, plus I didn't find it as good for low level listening, but if you like your music loud and crashing over you it's fantastic.
The other thing was, although the IA-4 runs pretty warm, you can almost cook your fry up on the 35I!
Overall, I didn't feel the step up in SQ warrented the extra expense.
Not wishing to spend your money for you, but Roby was quite correct about the ProAcs, they are an excellent match for Sugden, although I found Harbeth to be even better.
Cheers
Mac
malthus80 said:
Hi Malthus80 - yes I agree with you but in my case space does not permit, which is why I'm aiming for the best possible integrated I can find.
Actually, for 18 years I used a Naim NAC 82, 2 Hicaps and 2 NAP 135 monoblocks into a pair of ProAc Response 1 SCs. Brilliant sound but since I moved to a smaller house, I sold the lot and bought a SuperNait. Unfortunately, the sound isn't quite to my taste, hence my decision to switch to a Class A amp, which then led to the debate above about the Sugden and the MF AMS 35i.
iceman16 said:Hi Singslinger, If you're happy with the Sugden-Spendor combo, I may suggest go for it
Yes I agree.
ray:Brief update - the IA4 has arrived.
Initial impressions based on listening over the past three days can be summed up in one word - magnificent! Loads of power yet with detail and finesse - even at low levels.
Vastly different (and IMO, better) than the SuperNait, though to be fair, it is about 50% more expensive. To my ears, a perfect match for the Spendor Classic series.
To all those who replied to this thread especially Macspur, CnoEvil, Roby & Gregvet - many thanks. All I can say is that the class A sound has me hooked, probably for life! :dance: :cheers:
Initial impressions based on listening over the past three days can be summed up in one word - magnificent! Loads of power yet with detail and finesse - even at low levels.
Vastly different (and IMO, better) than the SuperNait, though to be fair, it is about 50% more expensive. To my ears, a perfect match for the Spendor Classic series.
To all those who replied to this thread especially Macspur, CnoEvil, Roby & Gregvet - many thanks. All I can say is that the class A sound has me hooked, probably for life! :dance: :cheers:
Singslinger said:
You are more than welcome.
Glad you are sorted and happy.
:beer: :beer: :beer:
Cno
Native_bon
Well-known member
- Nov 26, 2008
- 182
- 5
- 18,595
a few months ago I was looking for a new system. I demoed a pair of Spendor A5 with Sugden A21SE and a similar cd player from Sugden, probably the same series. It happened in Singapore at Electrades. I can only tell you that this combo gave the sweetest sound of everything else I tried
Go give it a try. I know you have different speakers but the A5 are not easy to drive.sugden did a very good job driving them with ease. The clarity and powerful.sound at low volume was the most impresive. Room filling.
never tried with Naim but hope my little experience with sugden can help. It was the first time I learned that amount of watts is not that important. If in Singapore go to Adelphi at Electrades. Very nice persons, can bring your own music etc. offers are negotiable too
Go give it a try. I know you have different speakers but the A5 are not easy to drive.sugden did a very good job driving them with ease. The clarity and powerful.sound at low volume was the most impresive. Room filling.
never tried with Naim but hope my little experience with sugden can help. It was the first time I learned that amount of watts is not that important. If in Singapore go to Adelphi at Electrades. Very nice persons, can bring your own music etc. offers are negotiable too
Native_bon
Well-known member
- Nov 26, 2008
- 182
- 5
- 18,595
I did once have a listen to a Sugden amp, & liked the sound very much but not really thought of doing another demo ever since then. I may have to have another listen now if I still feel the same about the sound. I once listened to a MF class A AMP, but did not like the sound.. If was just very powerful, but brash & harsh sounding. It could well be the speakers there were paired with.
Singslinger said:
Excellent!
So glad for you... the pleasure is all mine, just knowing I've helped a fellow HiFi enthusiast achieve the SQ they're looking for.
As Cno once told me... "once you've tasted Class A, it's very hard to find anything else that hits that sweet spot"
It's still early days for the amp, it will only get better and better!
Keep in touch.
Mac
Macspur said:
Yes, class A has something extra about it, a fullness and body that isn't present elsewhere. A bit like an iron fist in a velvet glove, is the best I can describe it.
Anyway thanks again and yes, will keep posting!:cheers:
Similar threads
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram