Question Denon F109 + Wharf. E70 to Mu-So or Diamond 12.x + Audiolab 6000A

[pinsonsebastien]

Hi all,

I probably have a very silly question...

I'm using a small Denon Amplifier + Network Reader, coupled to old speakers Wharfedale E70.
I'm mainly streaming musing through AirPlay. I have to say that I enjoy listening to music with this system (rock, pop, classical).

I would like to switch to something more compact , since the Wharfedale E70 are pretty huge speakers.
I'm having a look to systems such as the Naim Mu-So 2. I like the compactness, AirPlay and (hopefully) ease of use (no need for multiple wires, streaming boxes, etc.).

Here comes the silly question: how would this sound compared to my current setup?
I guess that you can't do much against physics and that you'll never get a good stereo sound, or a very wide and full sound from such a small system.
But I might be wrong, and 2020 vs. 1970 might have brought something...

What shall I expect?
Any feedback is most welcome!

Thank you,
Sébastien

 

[Gray]

What shall I expect?

A considerable difference in sound I would have thought.
Only you can say whether you prefer the difference.
Differences can initially sound wrong - it can take a long time to adapt to a new sound.

Your best bet would be to arrange a fairly long home loan - or buy from somewhere with a favourable returns policy.

 

[Symples]

Also consider the Technics SA-C600
Nice and compact and a great sound.
I am using it with a pair of second hand Tannoy Revolution DC6 Expresso speakers.
It's my bedroom system but can easily accommodate my main room of 5x4m square.

Not forgetting a Cambridge Audio Evo75 or Evo 150

There's a few choices out there.

 

[Messiah]

If possible I would certainly try and listen to the Mu-So (and perhaps a comparable costing separates system) and see what you think.

My friend has the original Mu-So and whilst it does sound impressive for its form, I find that it does not come close to a separates system for the same money.

All comes down to what your priorities are really but (as is always the case) I would try and demo a few options if you can.

 

[Gray]

Good advice from the last couple of posts, don't forget the alternative all-in-ones.

If it was me, I'd put up with a few cables and go for separates for the same money.
Those Wharfedales are, as you say, big.
There are plenty of good smaller speakers to choose from.

 

[pinsonsebastien]

A considerable difference in sound I would have thought.
Only you can say whether you prefer the difference.
Differences can initially sound wrong - it can take a long time to adapt to a new sound.

Your best bet would be to arrange a fairly long home loan - or buy from somewhere with a favourable returns policy.

Thank you Gray for your feedback.
I will do as you say and attempt to get one Mu-So 2 and just try one to compare.

I will keep you posted, I'm really wondering how much different it can sound, knowing that it's more or less 20x smaller than my current speakers...

 

[pinsonsebastien]

Also consider the Technics SA-C600
Nice and compact and a great sound.
I am using it with a pair of second hand Tannoy Revolution DC6 Expresso speakers.
It's my bedroom system but can easily accommodate my main room of 5x4m square.

Not forgetting a Cambridge Audio Evo75 or Evo 150

There's a few choices out there.

Hi Symples, if I got it right the Technics SA-C600 is only a network player.
So it would not really solve my "problem" which is mainly to replace my huge speakers by smaller ones / or by an integrated system.
Out of curiosity, what would the SA-C600 bring compared to my current Denon player?

 

[pinsonsebastien]

If possible I would certainly try and listen to the Mu-So (and perhaps a comparable costing separates system) and see what you think.

My friend has the original Mu-So and whilst it does sound impressive for its form, I find that it does not come close to a separates system for the same money.

All comes down to what your priorities are really but (as is always the case) I would try and demo a few options if you can.

Good advice from the last couple of posts, don't forget the alternative all-in-ones.

If it was me, I'd put up with a few cables and go for separates for the same money.
Those Wharfedales are, as you say, big.
There are plenty of good smaller speakers to choose from.

Thank you both for your comments and advice to test also other systems.
I'm considering to test two Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 and compare them to my E70's (on the same system).
What do you think?

 

[Symples]

Hi Symples, if I got it right the Technics SA-C600 is only a network player.
So it would not really solve my "problem" which is mainly to replace my huge speakers by smaller ones / or by an integrated system.
Out of curiosity, what would the SA-C600 bring compared to my current Denon player?

The Technics is a CD playey, FM radio DAB+ radio, Internet radio, streamer (Tidal,Amazon etc)

Or yes... and a 60W (4ohm) amplifier ....

 

[Gray]

I'm considering to test two Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 and compare them to my E70's (on the same system).
What do you think?

Should be good.
Again, I'm sure there will be some big differences. Give any new sound a chance - because a more correct and better sound can initially sound wrong and bad when compared to a sound that you've become very familiar with.....or...... it might just not be right for you.

A friend managed to get some 12.3 floorstanders new for £450 and he's absolutely delighted with the sound (from an old Marantz PM44SE amp)......possibly still bigger speakers than you want though.

Enjoy the trials and let us know how you get on.

 

[leemccann1]

2nd hand kef LS50 wireless 2 or new LSX

 

[pinsonsebastien]

Hi all,

I was able to test today the Diamond 12.2 and must admit that I’m impressed. Compared to my old E70 they certainly sound different, but while I was a bit skeptical at the beginning I ended my session quite convinced.

A few random comments/impressions:
- The E70’s twitters are certainly much better, when listening to the 12.2 it seems that certain frequencies are missing
- The E70’s are much louder, needed to lower the volume from 12 to 8 to sound similar
- The 12.2 surprisingly offered a better sound stage in my opinion, with very nice stereo
- The 12.2 are more precise with better / more distinct bass
- While both did sound great in my opinion, I generally felt more emotions with the 12.2

One problem though: I did this test in a relatively small room (15 square mt), while I’m looking for a solution for a much bigger room (40 square mt). So I should repeat it all I’m afraid…

This makes me wonder how the Diamond 12.3 would sound 🤔🤔🤔

Now I’m waiting for the Mu-So 2!

By the way, which amplifier would you recommend either for the E70 or for the 12.2 / 12.3? It might be interesting to test this part too…

Thank you!

 

[Gray]

This makes me wonder how the Diamond 12.3 would sound 🤔🤔🤔

You need to find out 👍

See if you can arrange to hear an Audiolab 6000A into the 12.3 to see what you think.

If you give an idea of how much you want to spend on an amp, people will come up with some suggestions.

 

[pinsonsebastien]

You need to find out 👍

See if you can arrange to hear an Audiolab 6000A into the 12.3 to see what you think.

If you give an idea of how much you want to spend on an amp, people will come up with some suggestions.

And so I did! Waiting for the 6000A and the 12.3 now, let’s see 😁.

To be fair I did not plan any budget for now, but staying around 1,500€ for the complete system would be good.

Is the WiiM Pro a good option to stream music? I switched to Apple Music recently because it’s pretty convenient, could also consider another streaming service…

(12.3 + 6000A + WiiM would be OK with my budget.)

 

[DCarmi]

Wiim do not support Apple Music natively, so you'd have to use Airplay2 or Chromecast with the associated limitations of each. I suspect Chromecast may be the higher bitrate option.

I've never used Apple Music nor Airplay2 but I believe Airplay2 is limited to 16/44.1KHz. Chromecast being 24/96Khz.

All the streaming services have free trials so you you can test the alternatives.

I am on a free trial of Amazon at the moment using a Wiim Pro. Sound quality seems good to me. Interface is not the best. Use either the Amp's internal DAC or get an external one because the Wiim's DAC is less good, due to its bargain price.

 

[Gray]

And so I did! Waiting for the 6000A and the 12.3 now, let’s see 😁.

Great 👍
I doubt there are a better pair of products for value (when buying new).

Only you can decide whether the combination sounds good to you.
(Should comfortably beat anything with built-in speakers).

 

[pinsonsebastien]

Hi all,

Here’s the update of the day.
I now put back everything in the right room.

I’ve been mainly listening to the 6000A and the 12.3 and I have to say that I loved it. I found that the 12.3 are generally similar to the 12.2 but bring smoother bass and further more separation between middles and trebles.

My feeling for now is that the 12.2 surely bring more for the money. But considering that I’d have to add stands, this is getting closer to the 12.3. So I’d probably end up with the 6000A and the 12.3, but I’m not done with my trials yet!

I could also shortly test the Mu-So 2. First of all I find that it’s a really nice object that fits very well to what I was looking for at first (aesthetically and size-wise). It also surely sounds great, although - as expected - there’s (almost) no stereo effect. I got a lot of troubles with AirPlay which did not help. I will continue to test it over the next few days.

Back to the 6000A, I have to dig a bit more on the WiiM setup. I’m using the analog connection between both, but I guess that it would be better to use the digital connection and use the DAC integrated in the 6000A. Will also check this in the next days.

Thank you all once more for your advice, it’s been great 👍🏻.

Sébastien

 

[plastic penguin]

And so I did! Waiting for the 6000A and the 12.3 now, let’s see 😁.

To be fair I did not plan any budget for now, but staying around 1,500€ for the complete system would be good.

Is the WiiM Pro a good option to stream music? I switched to Apple Music recently because it’s pretty convenient, could also consider another streaming service…

(12.3 + 6000A + WiiM would be OK with my budget.)

Having owned the entry-level E20, they work well with Arcam. I would guess the similar priced Audiolab with whatever speakers will be better.