Stereo Subwoofers for budget hifi

[Blackdawn]

Just wondering if anyone here has tried combining stereo bookshelf speakers or floorstanders with stereo subwoofers, instead of a single mono subwoofer?

There must be many people who think they are missing out much of the bottom-end of the sound from music.

Is it possible to do this easily on a light-mid budget? What kind of amps - crossovers are needed - how do you connect and install to get a seamless sound?

Maybe its just easier to go for larger floorstanders that go to lower frequencies?

 

[MakkaPakka]

How much bottom end do you think there is in music? If you look at the frequencies of different instruments there's not a great deal going on in the range that sub-woofers cover. Unless your budget is huge it makes more sense to just buy better speakers. I would treat a sub is a bit of a luxury once everything else is near perfect as they're pretty expensive and will only improve a limited area. Subs also raise issues with placement and room interaction so can easily make things worse.

 

[Blackdawn]

I think, I maybe wrong but don't musical instruments go down to around 28Hz? Also electronic music may go lower I guess. My speakers go down to around 50Hz. Maybe your right, larger speakers are better for integration.

 

[drummerman]

I have used a subwoofer for music for some time with good results.

regards

 

[MakkaPakka]

Chart here:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg

 

[drummerman]

It is not just about how low musical instruments go. A well matched subwoofer will bolster/underpin a maybe lacklustre or badly implemented port output (stand mount or floorstander). You can even try and block/part block ports (and their characteristic time delayed output).

It is in some ways easier to control, more flexible and can help an amplifier to manage its power more efficiently, especially if you have dedicated low frequency control such as in AV receivers.

It can bring what would otherwise seem excessively bright highs in proportion and add scale.

A sub has certain benefits but it all depends on the rest of your system, the matching and last but not least ... your room.

regards

 

[MakkaPakka]

I'm sure you're right - I'm not saying they're not worthwhile but as an example Monitor Audio's bronze sub will set you back £450 and goes to 40Hz.

Lots of nice speakers available for that sort of money.

 

[Blackdawn]

What I'm also asking is whether many people have tried stereo subwoofers (two) and how easy is it to integrate?

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm sure you're right - I'm not saying they're not worthwhile but as an example Monitor Audio's bronze sub will set you back £450 and goes to 40Hz.

Lots of nice speakers available for that sort of money.

it's not just about how low they go, it's about the amount of air their larger drivers can shift in one go. But equally, I don't think subs can ever be used to 'fix' sound which is inherrently bad or lacking. What I'm saying is if you don't like the sound of your speakers then imo a sub won't make you like them.

 

[matt49]

What I'm also asking is whether many people have tried stereo subwoofers (two) and how easy is it to integrate?

I may be wrong, but I suspect you won't get many answers to this specific question. I imagine that of all the people on this forum who've gone down the sub route, only a very small proportion will have stereo subs. This is because bass is (so the theory goes) not directional, or at least much less so than higher frequencies.

Is there some particular reason why you're interested in stereo subs, rather than a single unit?

Matt

 

[drummerman]

it's not just about how low they go, it's about the amount of air their larger drivers can shift in one go. But equally, I don't think subs can ever be used to 'fix' sound which is inherrently bad or lacking. What I'm saying is if you don't like the sound of your speakers then imo a sub won't make you like them.

Mmmh,

AVI 9.1. - Without subwoofer ... didn't like them to much. - With ... I did.

MS20i Pearl's. - Without ... I like them. With ... I like them more.

It's not always the case. My Ushers have enough low frequency to cope without but I choose to block the port and use the sub instead. My MS10i Pearls I use with ports part blocked and no sub.

Room and system dependant but you could say I'm fairly sensitive to time smear.

To the OP, sorry no, never tried twin subs but I could imagine that would also, on occasions, work very well if not better. Something I may have to try.

regards

 

[Peter Kudelstaart]

Well, I don't have floorstanders but I bought a subwoofer because of the acoustics in my attic room. I tried several types of bookshelf speakers and just wasn't satisfied with the sound. My speakers have to be placed on top of my desk so floorstander were out of the question. As I didn't want to spend al lot of money I bought one on the dutch Marktplaats.nl, a kind of ebay but with a lot less hassle. I got myself a very nice Mirage active subwoofer which solved my accoustics problem. As subwoofers are very expensIve I would go second hand if I were you. I bought mine for 60 euros!

Integration was easy because my amp (Marantz PM7003) has a pre out. Just a couple of rca interconnects to connect the subwoofer with my amp and I was ready to adjust the subwoofers output to the sound of mij stereo set. The trick is not to overdo the bass. I am very pleased with my current setup after the addition of my sub. As it turned out this particular type, a canadian brand, was known as a quite musical subwoofer. In my country you can pick up a subwoofer for 60 to 100 euro if you stick with lesser known brands. For a REL or B&W you must be prepaired to pay upwards of 200 euro. In my case the outlay of 60 euro was money well spent.

 

[Blackdawn]

What I'm also asking is whether many people have tried stereo subwoofers (two) and how easy is it to integrate?

I may be wrong, but I suspect you won't get many answers to this specific question. I imagine that of all the people on this forum who've gone down the sub route, only a very small proportion will have stereo subs. This is because bass is (so the theory goes) not directional, or at least much less so than higher frequencies.

Is there some particular reason why you're interested in stereo subs, rather than a single unit?

Matt

Okay thanks Matt, thats what I was thinking. Just seeing if anyone has setup a dual sub system with standmounts/floorstanders in combination.

No, not really any reason. if it was easy to do and integrate, I might have had a go. In the end it makes sense if your going to use a sub to extend both the left and right channel separately. I wonder if you would get a better stereo sound?

 

[Blackdawn]

Well, I don't have floorstanders but I bought a subwoofer because of the acoustics in my attic room. I tried several types of bookshelf speakers and just wasn't satisfied with the sound. My speakers have to be placed on top of my desk so floorstander were out of the question. As I didn't want to spend al lot of money I bought one on the dutch Marktplaats.nl, a kind of ebay but with a lot less hassle. I got myself a very nice Mirage active subwoofer which solved my accoustics problem. As subwoofers are very expensIve I would go second hand if I were you. I bought mine for 60 euros!

Integration was easy because my amp (Marantz PM7003) has a pre out. Just a couple of rca interconnects to connect the subwoofer with my amp and I was ready to adjust the subwoofers output to the sound of mij stereo set. The trick is not to overdo the bass. I am very pleased with my current setup after the addition of my sub. As it turned out this particular type, a canadian brand, was known as a quite musical subwoofer. In my country you can pick up a subwoofer for 60 to 100 euro if you stick with lesser known brands. For a REL or B&W you must be prepaired to pay upwards of 200 euro. In my case the outlay of 60 euro was money well spent.

Thats great, you were lucky with the price.

 

[Blackdawn]

it's not just about how low they go, it's about the amount of air their larger drivers can shift in one go. But equally, I don't think subs can ever be used to 'fix' sound which is inherrently bad or lacking. What I'm saying is if you don't like the sound of your speakers then imo a sub won't make you like them.

Mmmh,

AVI 9.1. - Without subwoofer ... didn't like them to much. - With ... I did.

MS20i Pearl's. - Without ... I like them. With ... I like them more.

It's not always the case. My Ushers have enough low frequency to cope without but I choose to block the port and use the sub instead. My MS10i Pearls I use with ports part blocked and no sub.

Room and system dependant but you could say I'm fairly sensitive to time smear.

To the OP, sorry no, never tried twin subs but I could imagine that would also, on occasions, work very well if not better. Something I may have to try.

regards

Okay, interesting, thanks drummerman

 

[Blackdawn]

I'm sure you're right - I'm not saying they're not worthwhile but as an example Monitor Audio's bronze sub will set you back £450 and goes to 40Hz.

Lots of nice speakers available for that sort of money.

it's not just about how low they go, it's about the amount of air their larger drivers can shift in one go. But equally, I don't think subs can ever be used to 'fix' sound which is inherrently bad or lacking. What I'm saying is if you don't like the sound of your speakers then imo a sub won't make you like them.

Good point. it will probably cause more problems.

 

[fr0g]

I'm sure you're right - I'm not saying they're not worthwhile but as an example Monitor Audio's bronze sub will set you back £450 and goes to 40Hz.

Lots of nice speakers available for that sort of money.

it's not just about how low they go, it's about the amount of air their larger drivers can shift in one go. But equally, I don't think subs can ever be used to 'fix' sound which is inherrently bad or lacking. What I'm saying is if you don't like the sound of your speakers then imo a sub won't make you like them.

IMO this is misleading

A "full range" speaker that goes down to the low 30's or less is essentially a speaker with subs built in.

The idea of a standalone sub is a good one. There is no directionality in the lower frequencies so for most living rooms a single source of the lower frequencies is fine.

You are essentially adding to speakers that are not "full range".

Of course you need a good quality sub.

As for stereo...Not many recordings will take advantage of it, and in most cases it is simply not necessary.

Don't get me wrong, money no object, I would have stereo "subs" whether it be through true full range speakers or 2 subs, but when we use the word "budget", then it's best to spend as much as possible on ONE sub, rather than dividing the money on TWO.

 

[Lo Fi]

I used a decent sub with some monitor audio RX1 speakers and was sarting to think about using stereo subs but then I thought hold on this is costing a fortune. So instead I sold my sub and RX1s and bought some Monitor Audio RX6 speakers. at 50 hz there is only 1 db difference from when I used the sub. So I would not go down that route again.

 

[bigblue235]

I'd also rather have one good sub than two cheaper ones.

As has been said, subs aren't really directional, so you're unlikely to notice a problem with one. With two, you'd possibly have problems with placement and various other things.

I have floorstanders that go fairly low, but they're no substitute for a proper sub.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Modest room & budget then no contest. One good sub. Integration of two is serious! IMO. In a large dedicated room for cinema then maybe

 

[Blackdawn]

Is there a way to add two subs to a modest system easily? I mean what kind of connections & cabling would I have to make to the amp? Would I need two pre outs or two integrated amps with pre outs?

 

[Lo Fi]

My MA RX1s cost £ 400 and my 2 subs and sub amp were going to cost about £ 800 ( making the boxes myself) so there you are £ 1200 total for that you can buy great floor standers giving more or less same performance. Also no integration problems and no extra electronics.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Is there a way to add two subs to a modest system easily? I mean what kind of connections & cabling would I have to make to the amp? Would I need two pre outs or two integrated amps with pre outs?

In one word. No.

 

[lindsayt]

How much bottom end do you think there is in music? If you look at the frequencies of different instruments there's not a great deal going on in the range that sub-woofers cover. Unless your budget is huge it makes more sense to just buy better speakers. I would treat a sub is a bit of a luxury once everything else is near perfect as they're pretty expensive and will only improve a limited area. Subs also raise issues with placement and room interaction so can easily make things worse.

Lots.

Check out wwjd's frequency content charts from Now 38 here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/629542-low-frequency-response-rap-pop-rock-music.html

The most extreme example being Chris Brown's Look at me now which has a lot more content in in the sub-woofer territory of 35 hz than it does in the midrange at 1khz.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I asked this question many years ago. The outcomes were two mainly. Either spend that money on one higher end sub woofer, to give better bass control and lower bass notes.

Or, invest in better, preferably, floor standing stereo speakers.