Star connected plug strips

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

you don’t want to engage by the reply. Have you ever done face to face debating....This one would be a great one

I’ve said before I have an opened mind about things like this but the human race lives on fact and all of the different kinds of mains products are theory only not proven fact because if it was proven then the evidence would be clearly explained by the company’s that make theses products .

i am not dismissing about mains products I just want to understand more to make sense of it all and I think maybe why people are against the subject about any cables as I found that out for my self when I changed my speaker cables to solid core audioquest cables from atlas speaker cables as there is a difference between the 2 cables I can’t explain it but I can prove it .

not really if you think about it black sabbath as if a hi Fi brand said it produces clear clean sound, how do we prove that. We don’t!

I have had a similar experiencing departing from Atlas. There are only two considerations 1) does it give a return 2) is it vfm.

So it means anything else is extraneous. A bit like why should Ronnie O’Sullivan seek to explain how he can make a 147 and cue like a dream with a bolt straight back arm. He doesn’t have to if he can do it...... don’t get sucked into the debate of people who say it makes no sense for want of either not trying, not havin comaptible kit and being people to believe because they profess expertise. That’s the last thing to do in hi fi.

 

[Oldphrt]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

you don’t want to engage by the reply. Have you ever done face to face debating....This one would be a great one

I’ve said before I have an opened mind about things like this but the human race lives on fact and all of the different kinds of mains products are theory only not proven fact because if it was proven then the evidence would be clearly explained by the company’s that make theses products .

i am not dismissing about mains products I just want to understand more to make sense of it all and I think maybe why people are against the subject about any cables as I found that out for my self when I changed my speaker cables to solid core audioquest cables from atlas speaker cables as there is a difference between the 2 cables I can’t explain it but I can prove it .

Speaker cables do make a difference, so that's a bit of a red herring. You need low resistance ones, IOW thick.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You’ve doomed yourself to never being able to ascertain then. A bit like saying I’m never going to x town, because it’s a dump. And you go there and find the positives. But as I say I doubt it’s worth it on a budget Sony,

Unless you've heard my Sony you can't really comment, can you? *scratch_one-s_head* It is only temporary, I've leant out my beefy Yamaha. I have loads of old amps knocking around.

i probably can because I’ve owned loads of Sony stuff, but I’d grant you I probably haven’t tried your device with x different cable. I might be surprised with x different cable. But I doubt it. With ‘Budget sony’ as you put it, is probably not going to discern benefits.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

you don’t want to engage by the reply. Have you ever done face to face debating....This one would be a great one

I’ve said before I have an opened mind about things like this but the human race lives on fact and all of the different kinds of mains products are theory only not proven fact because if it was proven then the evidence would be clearly explained by the company’s that make theses products .

i am not dismissing about mains products I just want to understand more to make sense of it all and I think maybe why people are against the subject about any cables as I found that out for my self when I changed my speaker cables to solid core audioquest cables from atlas speaker cables as there is a difference between the 2 cables I can’t explain it but I can prove it .

Speaker cables do make a difference, so that's a bit of a red herring. You need low resistance ones, IOW thick.

so loads of bass overhang then, if it’s not your thing?

 

[CnoEvil]

My predictions:

- This thread will reach 100 posts

- There will be no agreement (on anything)

- The insults haven't finished yet.

Well there you go...though I agreed with Oldphrt, except he didn't agree that we agreed, so that doesn't count.

Now who'll give me odds on 200 posts.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Also you say ‘in general’ but this isn’t general. It relates to hi Fi and complicated interplay of factors. So an electrical engineer could be dubious, and as Ellis says of the one in the isotek demo, they can’t really expect the result or understand it, but they sure as hell heard it.

 

[Oldphrt]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I can't explain how nonsense catches on, that much is true. I can explain why mains stuff can't make a difference to performance, but you are determined to not try and understand, so there would be no point. You would just say you heard it so there. My error, I should have not bothered trying to educate you. You are the pigeon on the chess board and you win in your own mind.

 

[CnoEvil]

@Quest.

This is why I now seldom get involved.

You are not going to convince anyone who doesn't agree with you; and you are not going to be convinced by them.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I have to agree with Cno I’ve seen meany cable debates on here and not one has anyone agreed it’s like going round in circles 13th and the last thing you want to is get upset about it mate your banging your head against a wall .

i am all for understanding something and I am not dismissing what you trying to say but they will just keep on beating you and the insults will start as they are not interested if it’s true or false about mains power products .

 

[Oldphrt]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I have to agree with Cno I’ve seen meany cable debates on here and not one has anyone agreed it’s like going round in circles 13th and the last thing you want to is get upset about it mate your banging your head against a wall .

i am all for understanding something and I am not dismissing what you trying to say but they will just keep on beating you and the insults will start as they are not interested if it’s true or false about mains power products .

I beat him with facts.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You seek to explain stuff from your empirical technical understanding , which falls by the way side because you have no experience of what’s going on. A scientist who did that would be trodden all over. It would be coming to a conclusion before testing and understanding and analysis.

So you can never seek to present an argument on technicalities for which you clearly do not understand because you’ve no experience to go out and hear. A better way around it for you, would be to get the experience, then come back to yourself and try and explain it. What’s really going on. This is what Stephen Hawking was doing all his life.

If Hawking or Darwin had just said it must be this or x or y, without compromise, we would never have the understanding of our environment.

What tends to happen in science is people make conclusions from what the data shows, and I suspect if 1000 people would have been put through that isotek test, they would allmost all have similar views. Where does that leave you in the above context?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

@Quest.

This is why I now seldom get involved.

You are not going to convince anyone who doesn't agree with you; and you are not going to be convinced by them.

i don’t mind. I am just presenting an argument as I like a debate sometimes. It’s ridiculously easy to see through this point of view of old fart. If he wants to carry on I will.

 

[CnoEvil]

If he wants to carry on I will.

200 posts, here we come. *yahoo*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I have to agree with Cno I’ve seen meany cable debates on here and not one has anyone agreed it’s like going round in circles 13th and the last thing you want to is get upset about it mate your banging your head against a wall .

i am all for understanding something and I am not dismissing what you trying to say but they will just keep on beating you and the insults will start as they are not interested if it’s true or false about mains power products .

I beat him with facts.

no ones a winner because it can’t be explained and you no it people can only go by there experiences of what they have heard by there experiences what more can be said .

 

[Oldphrt]

You seek to explain stuff from your empirical technical understanding , which falls by the way side because you have no experience of what’s going on. A scientist who did that would be trodden all over. It would be coming to a conclusion before testing and understanding and analysis.

So you can never seek to present an argument on technicalities for which you clearly do not understand because you’ve no experience to go out and hear. A better way around it for you, would be to get the experience, then come back to yourself and try and explain it. What’s really going on. This is what Stephen Hawking was doing all his life.

If Hawking or Darwin had just said it must be this or x or y, without compromise, we would never have the understanding of our environment.

What tends to happen in science is people make conclusions from what the data shows, and I suspect if 1000 people would have been put through that isotek test, they would allmost all have similar views. Where does that leave you in the above context?

I'm keen to hear your explanation of how changing anything you care to name on the mains can better the performance of an amplifier usually plugged directly in the wall on the lead that came with it.

 

[CnoEvil]

My error, I should have not bothered trying to educate you.

You are doing a lot of "bothering", for someone who shouldn't have bothered. *unknw*

 

[Oldphrt]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I have to agree with Cno I’ve seen meany cable debates on here and not one has anyone agreed it’s like going round in circles 13th and the last thing you want to is get upset about it mate your banging your head against a wall .

i am all for understanding something and I am not dismissing what you trying to say but they will just keep on beating you and the insults will start as they are not interested if it’s true or false about mains power products .

I beat him with facts.

no ones a winner because it can’t be explained and you no it people can only go by there experiences of what they have heard by there experiences what more can be said .

I can explain it. Whether you understand the explanation is a different matter.

 

[Oldphrt]

My error, I should have not bothered trying to educate you.

You are doing a lot of "bothering", for someone who shouldn't have bothered. *unknw*

I'm still willing to try.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

No but I’m showing the incredible arrogance of this guy because he won’t make any concession as to possibly hearing a difference (or wanting to try and do so), by trying the effect of these proprietary hi Fi cables in a good system. He has reached a view before he has even started. It’s ridiculously easy to present this line of argument therefore.

 

[CnoEvil]

My error, I should have not bothered trying to educate you.

You are doing a lot of "bothering", for someone who shouldn't have bothered. *unknw*

I'm still willing to try.

I can't shake off a strong feeling of deja vu.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

there isn’t because people are all scrambling around trying to explain mains cables stuff both for and against. Why on one system damm all and another comparable, sonething. Depends who you speak too . It will never properly and adequately be explained, as to why it does x or y on any given system, it’s way too complicated, whilst the believers have some wisdom for what’s going on, which I agree with. The naysayers have nothing as they, like you, even deny anything is going on. Don’t you get that. You surely must realise the error of your ways.

I have to agree with Cno I’ve seen meany cable debates on here and not one has anyone agreed it’s like going round in circles 13th and the last thing you want to is get upset about it mate your banging your head against a wall .

i am all for understanding something and I am not dismissing what you trying to say but they will just keep on beating you and the insults will start as they are not interested if it’s true or false about mains power products .

I beat him with facts.

no ones a winner because it can’t be explained and you no it people can only go by there experiences of what they have heard by there experiences what more can be said .

I can explain it. Whether you understand the explanation is a different matter.

then explain it !

Lets hear your side why mains products wouldn’t work I would like to no I am interested then at least that’s a proper debate

 

[Craig M.]

Quest, I think even you know you’re full of ****. No-one sure of themselves would spend so much time and energy trying to convince others.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Usually you start by what is going on for people to hear the change, if any change, which to me is clear and many others. Then you seek to understand and explain that change,

what old fart will do is

hypothesis- mains cables make no difference to changing sound quality

tests - I’m not going to even listen or bother or try

conclusion - mains cables make no difference for x and y technical reason, not related to any of the data (there isn’t any as he hasn’t bothered)

the credibiliy score is about zero.

The point is, even if you can’t explain it in conclusion. You can analyse it being statisticaly significant eg cables do make a differ. The conclusion is then ‘cables do make a difference’

do you understand how this scientific process works,old,fart.

 

[CnoEvil]

No-one sure of themselves would spend so much time and energy trying to convince others.

Well, to be fair, it's not just Quest.