Star connected plug strips

[cheeseboy]

Always worth dragging the old Audio woo checklist out as Quest and Ellis seem to be ticking a few of these boxes at the moment

You claim that an

( ) audible
( ) measurable
( ) hypothetical

improvement in sound quality can be attained by:

( ) upsampling
( ) increasing word size
( ) vibration dampening
( ) bi-wiring
( ) replacing the external power supply
( ) using a different lossless format
( ) decompressing on the server
( ) removing bits of metal from skull
( ) using ethernet instead of wireless
( ) inverting phase
( ) installing bigger connectors
( ) installing Black Gate caps
( ) installing ByBee filters
( ) installing hospital-grade AC jacks
( ) defragmenting the hard disk
( ) running older firmware

Your idea will not work. Specifically, it fails to account for:

( ) the placebo effect
( ) your ears honestly aren't that good
( ) your idea has already been thoroughly disproved
( ) modern DACs upsample anyway
( ) those products are pure snake oil
( ) lossless formats, by definition, are lossless
( ) those measurements are bogus
( ) sound travels much slower than you think
( ) electric signals travel much faster than you think
( ) that's not how binary arithmetic works
( ) that's not how TCP/IP works
( ) the Nyquist theorem
( ) the can't polish a turd theorem
( ) bits are bits

Your subsequent arguments will probably appeal in desperation to such esoterica as:

( ) jitter
( ) EMI
( ) thermal noise
( ) existentialism
( ) cosmic rays
( ) Your audio equipment isn't good enough to allow you to detect the difference.

And you will then change the subject to:

( ) theories are not the same as facts
( ) measurements don't tell everything
( ) not everyone is subject to the placebo effect
( ) blind testing is dumb
( ) you can't prove what I can't hear
( ) science isn't everything

Rather than engage in this tired discussion, I suggest exploring the following factors which are more likely to improve sound quality in your situation:

( ) room acoustics
( ) source material
( ) type of speakers
( ) speaker placement
( ) crossover points
( ) equalization
( ) Q-tips

Feel free to add any to the list.

 

[cheeseboy]

The likes of You Ellis and Cno shouldn't be allowed near the internet without supervision, and your posts should be watermarked with a warning that under no circumstances should anyone take advice from any of you EVER...

I'm going to defend CNo here, in his posts that I've read he never claims anything, just that if you want to try it, and if you like it then so be it, preferably from a company that will trial or give money back. He's neve tried to re-write the laws of physics or tried to claim anything like that, or even tried to tell those who know what they are talking about that they are wrong and thusly looking like a fool. As for others, well that's another story

 

[Oldphrt]

Maybe try replacing the mains leads on the medical equipment?

..or maybe filtering out noise might be of benefit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=S0SNaZ-3_os

I would doubt it. All of the noise filtering required will surely be built into the equipment.

 

[ellisdj]

I filmed person and person after person after person hear the difference over a whole day. As I say something around 50 people not an insignificant number.

Half of those people didn't have any mains products some did.

Then I filmed their comments on the sound which all aligned with each other.

Unless they all spoke outside how could that many different people all hear the same thing??

But they did and they all said it improved the sound no-one said no change or worse sound no-one

 

[CnoEvil]

Maybe try replacing the mains leads on the medical equipment?

..or maybe filtering out noise might be of benefit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=S0SNaZ-3_os

I would doubt it. All of the noise filtering required will surely be built into the equipment.

The Truth is Out There.

 

[MajorFubar]

The reason they wouldn’t Ellis is because the system has to be of a sufficient quality and revealing enough to hear these benefits.

Ah the old hackneyed 'your system isn't good enough to hear the differences'. I was wondering how far we'd get into this thread before someone wheeled that one out. And here is where I turn off.

 

[daveh75]

The likes of You Ellis and Cno shouldn't be allowed near the internet without supervision, and your posts should be watermarked with a warning that under no circumstances should anyone take advice from any of you EVER...

I'm going to defend CNo here, in his posts that I've read he never claims anything, just that if you want to try it, and if you like it then so be it, preferably from a company that will trial or give money back. He's neve tried to re-write the laws of physics or tried to claim anything like that, or even tried to tell those who know what they are talking about that they are wrong and thusly looking like a fool. As for others, well that's another story

He's helped perpetuate myths, introduced ******** products and ******** evidence usually in the form of marketing spiel over the years, he may not be as bad as the others, but if even one single person has bought into bs he's helped perpetuate then he should be ashamed of himself afaiac...

 

[Oldphrt]

I filmed person and person after person after person hear the difference over a whole day. As I say something around 50 people not an insignificant number.

Half of those people didn't have any mains products some did.

Then I filmed their comments on the sound which all aligned with each other.

Unless they all spoke outside how could that many different people all hear the same thing??

But they did and they all said it improved the sound no-one said no change or worse sound no-one

What improved the sound? Your argument is akin to a religious one.

 

[ellisdj]

various mains conditioners / regenerator at different qualyities

says the man who nearly operated on himself as he knew more than the doctor. like sound you can know all you want all that matters is the end result which is easily demonstratable from where I am sitting

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm going to defend CNo here, in his posts that I've read he never claims anything, just that if you want to try it, and if you like it then so be it, preferably from a company that will trial or give money back. He's neve tried to re-write the laws of physics or tried to claim anything like that, or even tried to tell those who know what they are talking about that they are wrong and thusly looking like a fool.

Thank you Sir....that about sums it up.

 

[cheeseboy]

Unless they all spoke outside how could that many different people all hear the same thing??

there could be a whole raft of reasons why.

Do you have any proof they demo wasn't rigged for example? There's one reason why.

It *is* possible to get multiple people to experience the same effect, even if it is because of a trick of the mind.

Please don't eqaute the fact that because multiple say it happened means it actually happened in real world sense. I've seen the placebo effect fool entire rooms full of people before. It's nothing new.

 

[ellisdj]

I watched the whole demo every time and filmed it it's hard to trick people by plugging something in and unplugging it which is what the demo was.

why does it have to be a trick many people did the demo and all of them I spoke to the majority all heard a difference. bearing in mind the demos were small groups on the hour so someone in group 1 was hours before group 6 for example.

The chap who builds power stations for a living sadly I didn't get him on camera we spoke while I was shooting some B roll time lapse. I was very interested in his opinion as he surely knows a thing or 2 about power. His son is an acoustic engineer I had a good chat with him as well not nearly for long enough which is a shame would have loved to have discussed some topics with him.

 

[cheeseboy]

I watched the whole demo every time and filmed it it's hard to trick people by plugging something in and unplugging it which is what the demo was.

why does it have to be a trick many people did the demo and all of them I spoke to the majority all heard a difference. bearing in mind the demos were small groups on the hour so someone in group 1 was hours before group 6 for example.

it doesn't have to be a trick, but you posed the question of why did people hear a difference, and posed a hypothetical that it could have been rigged. Now you have no proof that it was not rigged. Therefore, my hypothetical situation that the demo was rigged is just as valid as yours that everybody heard a difference because of the cables. This works both ways, that's what I'm trying to say. Heck, even apple have rigged demos before for example - https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/297190

The chap who builds power stations for a living sadly I didn't get him on camera we spoke while I was shooting some B roll time lapse. I was very interested in his opinion as he surely knows a thing or 2 about power. His son is an acoustic engineer I had a good chat with him as well not nearly for long enough which is a shame would have loved to have discussed some topics with him.

I agree it would have been interesting to see what they had to say.

If people don't think that they can be fooled, then please look in to things such as the Mcgurk effect, the tritone paradox or the shepard scale. These are scientfic tests that prove that your brains audio processing can be fooled and are repeatable easily. Note how that none of these cable companies have ever been able to produce any actual studies to back up their claims, which should tell you something from the off, however, organisation such as the AES have been able to prove the opposite. I find it odd that those companies selling such products would not be rushing to back up what they say and prove all these "naysayers" wrong.

 

[Oldphrt]

I watched the whole demo every time and filmed it it's hard to trick people by plugging something in and unplugging it which is what the demo was.

why does it have to be a trick many people did the demo and all of them I spoke to the majority all heard a difference.

That's why it has to be a trick. No difference is possible.

 

[CnoEvil]

...except on cable threads. Thumb screws and the rack would be too good for the lot of us.

 

[Pedro]

 

...except on cable threads. Thumb screws and the rack would be too good for the lot of us.

Yes, it's just sad when people trust science.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

 

[ellisdj]

when you unplug something with one cable and plug it into something else how can that be a trick.

10 people all sitting there less than a few metres away in a semi circle around the system with a handsome man standing there filming you in 4k. How can you trick that? If you could you wouldn't work in HiFi

The trick is to play music and let people listen and see for themselves with the advice go and try at home.

One chap in the whole day said he couldn't hear a difference but actually he said he didn't know the music well enough to say categorically what was what. That's fair enough. everyone else I spoke to said they heard differences maybe a few didn't and didn't say anything but a lot of people nodded in agreement even if they didn't say anything.
One chap who uses an Ikea strip couldn't believe the difference. He kindly spoke on camera for me it was a real shock to him.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I’m sorry Ellis but your camera must be rigged too. Lol.

When the argument is lost, they start reverting to conspiracy theories, bias, referring to double blind tests. Lots of cards up their sleaves. Most intelligent reasonable people just don’t buy it. A bit like someone telling someone else 9/11 was rigged by the US government.

 

[Pedro]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Pray, show us some scientific evidence.

 

[Craig M.]

I’m baffled as to why the industry don’t use Audio diff maker to prove their claims, would bypass all the guff and show beyond doubt how their magic products work. Actually I’m not baffled at all.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ellis do you have any contact with some of theses people like Audioquest is there a way Ellis you can ask the question about proof I understand you have heard the proof for your self .

but a lot of us have never been to a hifi show to find out if there is a difference in sound so is there a way in getting into contact to find out .?

as I am sure it would interest people on here and including myself

Obviously theses companies would have a white paper or some sort of documents of the testing process involved in this .

 

[Oldphrt]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

 

[Oldphrt]

Ellis do you have any contact with some of theses people like Audioquest is there a way Ellis you can ask the question about proof I understand you have heard the proof for your self .

but a lot of us have never been to a hifi show to find out if there is a difference in sound so is there a way in getting into contact to find out .?

as I am sure it would interest people on here and including myself

Obviously theses companies would have a white paper or some sort of documents of the testing process involved in this .

You don't need to attend a hifi show to know that mains stuff doesn't affect performance. You only need to know how things work.

 

[Craig M.]

How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in?

It won’t. It’s called disconfirmation bias. The more his ideas and beliefs are challenged and debunked, the more entrenched his views will become and the more effort he’ll put into refuting facts.