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Star connected plug strips

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
There has been much hysterical posting on the benefits of 'star connected plug strips' over the last couple of weeks.

Here's why it is all nonsense.

The usual 4 socket plug strip on a trailing lead has a busbar approach to connect the 4 sockets together. The mains cable is fed into one end of the strip and attached to a bent bit of thick solid wire. This bent bit of wire snakes along the strip from socket to socket connecting the spring clips that grip the plug pins when a plug is inserted. There are 3 bits of bent wire, one for all the Live pins, one for all the Neutral pins and one for all the Earth pins. My 'reference' case in point is the Ikea 'KOPPLA' strip which has 4 sockets and a 1.5M trailing lead. A two pack of these socket strips costs £5.00, so effectively £2.50 each (although they can't be bought separately).

A star connected strip still has a trailing lead, but instead of a busbar (the bent bits of wire), each socket on the strip has its own 3 separate lengths of wire (L,N,E) back to the point that trailing lead enters the strip - where all of the wires are connected together at the 'star point'. Titan audio styx strip has this approach, and costs £150.

Why? Why indeed.

The argument, in that there is one, is that a device plugged in at the end of the strip with a busbar will 'steal current' from the other devices plugged into the strip leading to a reduction in audio quality. This problem is avoided when each socket has its own connection back to the 'star point'. Like all good marketing, there is an element of truth to this. Yes, two devices drawing current along the same cable (or busbar) will lead to a greater voltage drop than if they were separate.

But hang on, don't all the devices plugged into the strip share the same 1.5M trailing lead irrespective of whether they have a busbar or their own 8 inch bit of wire in the strip iteslf? ..and don't they all share the same plug and fuse where the trailing lead plugs into the wall? ... and don't they all share the same ring main back to the fuse board? ...and the cable from there to the local distribution point is shared as well?

So the argument is that replacing 8 inches of shared busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable will dwarf all of the voltage drops of the all the other metres and metres of shared conductors on the circuit. Nonsense.

Now there might just be a case if that 8 inch busbar was really thin and weedy wire, the resistance it introduced was significant in relation to the overall loop resistance and the current draw along the strip was very high. It isnt. Ikea (my reference supplier) are a large international organisation. Their strip is rated at 13A, which means you can plug a 13A load into the strip at any point without it catching fire. I think it is safe to assume that Ikea have adequately tested the strip for this current, and therefore we can assume that the busbar is adequately sized to carry 13A from one end of the strip to the other. As it turns out, I have taken an Ikea strip to bits, and the busbar looks to be far thicker than a 13A load would require. My guess is that for manufacturing reasons, a thicker conductor is preferable - easier to form or easier to install. Also worth pointing out that amplifier and source loads are in the order of a few hundred watts (current flows of 1 amp or so) - any voltage drop on the busbar will be minimal.

So, the question is whether replacing 8 inches of shared thick, busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable, given all the metres and metres of shared paths that the supply current takes is audible.

No is the answer.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,232
4
19,195
Which is why I use MK Safety Plugs and Duraplug extensions. I just know (from experience) that they are really well made, and tested/certified to European and British mains standards. (Something often neglected by boutique brands.)

The circular, screw down clamps (in the plugs) connect to the whole length of stripped/exposed copper (rather than just pinching a couple of square millimetres) and never work loose.

The shape of the clamps (slightly concave where they contact the conductors) also means very little copper is exposed to the air. The screw to secure the plug top is ‘captive’ so cannot be lost and the two nylon ‘horns’ that grip the flex are totally secure (and make it virtually impossible pull the flex out by accident).

Brilliantly engineered in every detail. I always keep a few new ones and often replace cheap looking integrated plugs. Probably unecessary but it makes me happy to have proper, colour matched plugs.

I might order a couple of your suggested IKEA extensions and take one apart to compare build quality. (Although my Duraplug ones are extremely tough.)
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
andyjm said:
There has been much hysterical posting on the benefits of 'star connected plug strips' over the last couple of weeks.

Here's why it is all nonsense.

The usual 4 socket plug strip on a trailing lead has a busbar approach to connect the 4 sockets together. The mains cable is fed into one end of the strip and attached to a bent bit of thick solid wire. This bent bit of wire snakes along the strip from socket to socket connecting the spring clips that grip the plug pins when a plug is inserted. There are 3 bits of bent wire, one for all the Live pins, one for all the Neutral pins and one for all the Earth pins. My 'reference' case in point is the Ikea 'KOPPLA' strip which has 4 sockets and a 1.5M trailing lead. A two pack of these socket strips costs £5.00, so effectively £2.50 each (although they can't be bought separately).

A star connected strip still has a trailing lead, but instead of a busbar (the bent bits of wire), each socket on the strip has its own 3 separate lengths of wire (L,N,E) back to the point that trailing lead enters the strip - where all of the wires are connected together at the 'star point'. Titan audio styx strip has this approach, and costs £150.

Why? Why indeed.

The argument, in that there is one, is that a device plugged in at the end of the strip with a busbar will 'steal current' from the other devices plugged into the strip leading to a reduction in audio quality. This problem is avoided when each socket has its own connection back to the 'star point'. Like all good marketing, there is an element of truth to this. Yes, two devices drawing current along the same cable (or busbar) will lead to a greater voltage drop than if they were separate.

But hang on, don't all the devices plugged into the strip share the same 1.5M trailing lead irrespective of whether they have a busbar or their own 8 inch bit of wire in the strip iteslf? ..and don't they all share the same plug and fuse where the trailing lead plugs into the wall? ... and don't they all share the same ring main back to the fuse board? ...and the cable from there to the local distribution point is shared as well?

So the argument is that replacing 8 inches of shared busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable will dwarf all of the voltage drops of the all the other metres and metres of shared conductors on the circuit. Nonsense.

Now there might just be a case if that 8 inch busbar was really thin and weedy wire, the resistance it introduced was significant in relation to the overall loop resistance and the current draw along the strip was very high. It isnt. Ikea (my reference supplier) are a large international organisation. Their strip is rated at 13A, which means you can plug a 13A load into the strip at any point without it catching fire. I think it is safe to assume that Ikea have adequately tested the strip for this current, and therefore we can assume that the busbar is adequately sized to carry 13A from one end of the strip to the other. As it turns out, I have taken an Ikea strip to bits, and the busbar looks to be far thicker than a 13A load would require. My guess is that for manufacturing reasons, a thicker conductor is preferable - easier to form or easier to install. Also worth pointing out that amplifier and source loads are in the order of a few hundred watts (current flows of 1 amp or so) - any voltage drop on the busbar will be minimal.

So, the question is whether replacing 8 inches of shared thick, busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable, given all the metres and metres of shared paths that the supply current takes is audible.

No is the answer.
can we have some pictures and possibly annotations too?

But I think there is so much speculation in many of your points it’s very hard to follow.
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
andyjm said:
There has been much hysterical posting on the benefits of 'star connected plug strips' over the last couple of weeks.

Here's why it is all nonsense.

The usual 4 socket plug strip on a trailing lead has a busbar approach to connect the 4 sockets together. The mains cable is fed into one end of the strip and attached to a bent bit of thick solid wire. This bent bit of wire snakes along the strip from socket to socket connecting the spring clips that grip the plug pins when a plug is inserted. There are 3 bits of bent wire, one for all the Live pins, one for all the Neutral pins and one for all the Earth pins. My 'reference' case in point is the Ikea 'KOPPLA' strip which has 4 sockets and a 1.5M trailing lead. A two pack of these socket strips costs £5.00, so effectively £2.50 each (although they can't be bought separately).

A star connected strip still has a trailing lead, but instead of a busbar (the bent bits of wire), each socket on the strip has its own 3 separate lengths of wire (L,N,E) back to the point that trailing lead enters the strip - where all of the wires are connected together at the 'star point'. Titan audio styx strip has this approach, and costs £150.

Why? Why indeed.

The argument, in that there is one, is that a device plugged in at the end of the strip with a busbar will 'steal current' from the other devices plugged into the strip leading to a reduction in audio quality. This problem is avoided when each socket has its own connection back to the 'star point'. Like all good marketing, there is an element of truth to this. Yes, two devices drawing current along the same cable (or busbar) will lead to a greater voltage drop than if they were separate.

But hang on, don't all the devices plugged into the strip share the same 1.5M trailing lead irrespective of whether they have a busbar or their own 8 inch bit of wire in the strip iteslf? ..and don't they all share the same plug and fuse where the trailing lead plugs into the wall? ... and don't they all share the same ring main back to the fuse board? ...and the cable from there to the local distribution point is shared as well?

So the argument is that replacing 8 inches of shared busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable will dwarf all of the voltage drops of the all the other metres and metres of shared conductors on the circuit. Nonsense.

Now there might just be a case if that 8 inch busbar was really thin and weedy wire, the resistance it introduced was significant in relation to the overall loop resistance and the current draw along the strip was very high. It isnt. Ikea (my reference supplier) are a large international organisation. Their strip is rated at 13A, which means you can plug a 13A load into the strip at any point without it catching fire. I think it is safe to assume that Ikea have adequately tested the strip for this current, and therefore we can assume that the busbar is adequately sized to carry 13A from one end of the strip to the other. As it turns out, I have taken an Ikea strip to bits, and the busbar looks to be far thicker than a 13A load would require. My guess is that for manufacturing reasons, a thicker conductor is preferable - easier to form or easier to install. Also worth pointing out that amplifier and source loads are in the order of a few hundred watts (current flows of 1 amp or so) - any voltage drop on the busbar will be minimal.

So, the question is whether replacing 8 inches of shared thick, busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable, given all the metres and metres of shared paths that the supply current takes is audible.

No is the answer.
you seem to accept the voltage drop so I’d ask what effect is that going to have on the equipment and sound? Anyone care to add.

Secondly the quality of the materials and type of copper used in the star block will have an effect on capacitance and inductance. That’s going to affect the ability to draw transient power, not maxed out fire causing power as you state. . How about the ability of the busbar to oxidise in air. It’s just an exposed plate in the socket whereas the star wired cable has a sheath and won’t oxidise. Using the de oxidising liquids on speaker cables is known to effect oxidation. So do you know the effect that is going to have.

Also how do we know if the block has mains spike and surge protection. Have a look at what this involves with the chokes and mov’s involved. Most power bars now are surge protected, but if the Ikea isn’t it will be a better power bar. I’ve not spoken to one person who says surge protection is good for quality hi Fi.

Your point about sharing the leads is a big myth I’m afraid. See this article https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/

the distance from the wall to the hi Fi is not to be considered as the last few metres along a long chain from the electricity station etc, but the first feet from the component wall. You are using a improper analogy to suit a point. It’s not a flow of water but part of a circuit

it seems to me pretty obvious that if an amplifier is drawing current not up to its maximum level, to the extent anything will catch fire, these transient demands on current are going to be affected in how the current passes through the lead and block as part of an overall circuit of which the amplifier and components are included as well as the leads and power block.

im sorry but your points are not looking at it from the perspective of what it can or will or could achieve, of which you seem not to have had some people’s experience that these leads and blocks make a difference (I’ve no idea your system and whether it’s sensitive to this), so your argument is lacking credibility already, regardless of the view for or against. That’s why some of these debates on forums are often so futile as nobody can ever show the others position.

Also you don’t account effects of using the bar with the power cables and the effects that shielding cables is known to have of the frequency spectrum.
You have no idea what you are talking about. It's gibberish man!
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
andyjm said:
There has been much hysterical posting on the benefits of 'star connected plug strips' over the last couple of weeks.

Here's why it is all nonsense.

The usual 4 socket plug strip on a trailing lead has a busbar approach to connect the 4 sockets together. The mains cable is fed into one end of the strip and attached to a bent bit of thick solid wire. This bent bit of wire snakes along the strip from socket to socket connecting the spring clips that grip the plug pins when a plug is inserted. There are 3 bits of bent wire, one for all the Live pins, one for all the Neutral pins and one for all the Earth pins. My 'reference' case in point is the Ikea 'KOPPLA' strip which has 4 sockets and a 1.5M trailing lead. A two pack of these socket strips costs £5.00, so effectively £2.50 each (although they can't be bought separately).

A star connected strip still has a trailing lead, but instead of a busbar (the bent bits of wire), each socket on the strip has its own 3 separate lengths of wire (L,N,E) back to the point that trailing lead enters the strip - where all of the wires are connected together at the 'star point'. Titan audio styx strip has this approach, and costs £150.

Why? Why indeed.

The argument, in that there is one, is that a device plugged in at the end of the strip with a busbar will 'steal current' from the other devices plugged into the strip leading to a reduction in audio quality. This problem is avoided when each socket has its own connection back to the 'star point'. Like all good marketing, there is an element of truth to this. Yes, two devices drawing current along the same cable (or busbar) will lead to a greater voltage drop than if they were separate.

But hang on, don't all the devices plugged into the strip share the same 1.5M trailing lead irrespective of whether they have a busbar or their own 8 inch bit of wire in the strip iteslf? ..and don't they all share the same plug and fuse where the trailing lead plugs into the wall? ... and don't they all share the same ring main back to the fuse board? ...and the cable from there to the local distribution point is shared as well?

So the argument is that replacing 8 inches of shared busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable will dwarf all of the voltage drops of the all the other metres and metres of shared conductors on the circuit. Nonsense.

Now there might just be a case if that 8 inch busbar was really thin and weedy wire, the resistance it introduced was significant in relation to the overall loop resistance and the current draw along the strip was very high. It isnt. Ikea (my reference supplier) are a large international organisation. Their strip is rated at 13A, which means you can plug a 13A load into the strip at any point without it catching fire. I think it is safe to assume that Ikea have adequately tested the strip for this current, and therefore we can assume that the busbar is adequately sized to carry 13A from one end of the strip to the other. As it turns out, I have taken an Ikea strip to bits, and the busbar looks to be far thicker than a 13A load would require. My guess is that for manufacturing reasons, a thicker conductor is preferable - easier to form or easier to install. Also worth pointing out that amplifier and source loads are in the order of a few hundred watts (current flows of 1 amp or so) - any voltage drop on the busbar will be minimal.

So, the question is whether replacing 8 inches of shared thick, busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable, given all the metres and metres of shared paths that the supply current takes is audible.

No is the answer.
you seem to accept the voltage drop so I’d ask what effect is that going to have on the equipment and sound? Anyone care to add.

Secondly the quality of the materials and type of copper used in the star block will have an effect on capacitance and inductance. That’s going to affect the ability to draw transient power, not maxed out fire causing power as you state. . How about the ability of the busbar to oxidise in air. It’s just an exposed plate in the socket whereas the star wired cable has a sheath and won’t oxidise. Using the de oxidising liquids on speaker cables is known to effect oxidation. So do you know the effect that is going to have.

Also how do we know if the block has mains spike and surge protection. Have a look at what this involves with the chokes and mov’s involved. Most power bars now are surge protected, but if the Ikea isn’t it will be a better power bar. I’ve not spoken to one person who says surge protection is good for quality hi Fi.

Your point about sharing the leads is a big myth I’m afraid. See this article https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/

the distance from the wall to the hi Fi is not to be considered as the last few metres along a long chain from the electricity station etc, but the first feet from the component wall. You are using a improper analogy to suit a point. It’s not a flow of water but part of a circuit

it seems to me pretty obvious that if an amplifier is drawing current not up to its maximum level, to the extent anything will catch fire, these transient demands on current are going to be affected in how the current passes through the lead and block as part of an overall circuit of which the amplifier and components are included as well as the leads and power block.

im sorry but your points are not looking at it from the perspective of what it can or will or could achieve, of which you seem not to have had some people’s experience that these leads and blocks make a difference (I’ve no idea your system and whether it’s sensitive to this), so your argument is lacking credibility already, regardless of the view for or against. That’s why some of these debates on forums are often so futile as nobody can ever show the others position.

Im afraid you’ll just have to accept very good hi Fi can be affected by these things. If

Also you don’t account effects of using the bar with the power cables and the effects that shielding cables is belueved to have of the frequency spectrum, which is another head mess you aren’t going to be able to show, for or against.

Im sorry but most people will not try to think a reason around why it can’t help. It’s unscientifuc and a conspiracy theory. Look at it from both viewpoints. If you want me to do a double blind I hapilly will. I will accept the reason someone may not be able to tell differences is that a hi Fi is simply not good enough, and I’m in that position too with other hi Fi I own. You come from both viewpoints you have more credibility.....
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Man who understands electrical and electronic engineering arguing electrical and electronic engineering with a man who doesn't.

Pointless!

Do not engage with such idiocy, you will feel all the better for it...*dirol*
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
and could the 10 percent be achieved from an Ikea to a dedicated power bar, to complete the point Electro? And why?
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
If a mains lead drops 10% of the mains I would describe it as unsound, but you still wouldn't hear the difference. *blum3*
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
and could the 10 percent be achieved from an Ikea to a dedicated power bar, to complete the point Electro? And why?
No. If it was that resistive it would likely catch fire.
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
Oldphrt said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
and could the 10 percent be achieved from an Ikea to a dedicated power bar, to complete the point Electro? And why?
No. If it was that resistive it would likely catch fire.
Yes the cable would definitely get warm if it was reducing the voltage by 10% !

My point was that the mains performance does have an influence on system performance as we will all find out when the Russians cut of the supply to our gas fired power stations and the UK voltage starts to sag . *shok* *biggrin* .

But that's another thread.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
davedotco said:
Man who understands electrical and electronic engineering arguing electrical and electronic engineering with a man who doesn't.

Pointless!

Do not engage with such idiocy, you will feel all the better for it...*dirol*
my impression is you’ve never owned a good enough hi Fi to be able to form a balanced credible view as to whether hi Fi mains cables, or other types of hi Fi cables, can make a more than positive difference to a hi fi.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
I was in a room with about 50 people on and off doing A/B testing of mains products - old and young, men and women from a classical musician to a man who actually builds power stations for a living 49 of those people heard a difference

1 didnt - well he wouldnt attibute it to the power conditioning - didnt mean he didnt hear it.

Out of 50 people surely 25 as a 50% rule or more wouldnt be able to hear it if it wasnt there. They all said the sound was improved and more enjoyable to listen to.

So if by plugging in a mains conditoner their hifi system is more enjoyable to listen to why would you not?

The IKEA strip sounded horrendous by the way hence my suggestion never to use one if you want truly good sound
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
These are the things they said

less harsh

smoother

richer

more focused and sharper focus

sound opened up

sound started to come out of no where

the sound space seemed more open, more realistic

very obvious improvement in vocals - started to sound more real

Lots more comments - one of the chaps has a Naim system and knew the advice was to plug it straight into the wall - he tried an Isotek Polaris and in his words - "it was amazing, it really was"

In lots of walks of life inc business recommendations have just as much importance as facts and figures - hifi is no different
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
The reason they wouldn’t Ellis is because the system has to be of a sufficient quality and revealing enough to hear these benefits.

So may have different groups :

a) Those who form considered views that the mains bars and cables don’t do anything from technical understanding (which in some ways may be legitimately formed view from technical understanding, as some of andyjm points), but no direct experience. Hence pessimistic view

b) those who form a view from technical views that they do, but have experience they do, and aren’t pessimists.

c) those who form a view which might not be sound (this is where otco will put me,and others no doubt), but have direct experience of benefits, and aren’t pessimists

d) those who could not be bothered with technical understanding but hear benefits. That’s all they need.

e) those who don’t have much understanding of technicality, have never tried or have experience, but are just pessimists on price grounds.

unfortunately group a) say always impress on others they are right, ignoring everyone’s experince. I think this is always ridiculously arrogant, And as you say flies in the face of all those 49 and many thousands more.

the ‘ace card’ is to group a) and e) is always, can you do a double blind, even with no definitive scientific double blind tests.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
davedotco said:
Man who understands electrical and electronic engineering arguing electrical and electronic engineering with a man who doesn't.

Pointless!

Do not engage with such idiocy, you will feel all the better for it...*dirol*
my impression is you’ve never owned a good enough hi Fi to be able to form a balanced credible view as to whether hi Fi mains cables, or other types of hi Fi cables, can make a more than positive difference to a hi fi.
I have noted and discussed some details of my last 'serious' system on a number of occasions on this forum. To recap.

Sources were a SME20A, Koetsu Red T, Wadia 861. Amplification by Audio Research PH1, LS2, D400. Speakers were Martin Logan CLS11z, ATC subwoofers. Cables by van den Hul, Siltech, MIT and Transparent Audio. Mains regeneration by PS Audio, conditioning by Isotek.

I also had a Red Rose system that (mostly) I can not access for legal reasons. One of my pairs of Red Rose speakers are used by an occasional contributer to this forum.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
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0
the cheaper the system components you would think the more important it is. Worse quality of power supply, design and noise rejection built in etc.

But it still makes significant improvement when you spend more per box maybe you need better products at a stage to see improvements over what's already been built in.
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Electro said:
Oldphrt said:
As long as the connection is sound nothing on the mains can influence performance.
A 10% change in line input voltage can make a 20% difference to amplifier output power . *biggrin* *ok*
and could the 10 percent be achieved from an Ikea to a dedicated power bar, to complete the point Electro? And why?
No. If it was that resistive it would likely catch fire.
Yes the cable would definitely get warm if it was reducing the voltage by 10% !

My point was that the mains performance does have an influence on system performance as we will all find out when the Russians cut of the supply to our gas fired power stations and the UK voltage starts to sag . *shok* *biggrin* .

But that's another thread.
Your point is only correct if you constantly use the maximum power output available and the amplifier doesn't have a universal switch mode power supply. Stick your amp on a variac, vary the voltage and listen. 10%? There will be no change. I had an MF A1 and it was quite happy on 150 volts.
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
ellisdj said:
the cheaper the system components you would think the more important it is. Worse quality of power supply, design and noise rejection built in etc.

But it still makes significant improvement when you spend more per box maybe you need better products at a stage to see improvements over what's already been built in.
I'm currently using a budget Sony amp. It is completely silent, so no problem with noise rejection there.
 

Oldphrt

New member
Oct 21, 2016
2
1
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
The reason they wouldn’t Ellis is because the system has to be of a sufficient quality and revealing enough to hear these benefits.

So may have different groups :

a) Those who form considered views that the mains bars and cables don’t do anything from technical understanding (which in some ways may be legitimately formed view from technical understanding, as some of andyjm points), but no direct experience. Hence pessimistic view

b) those who form a view from technical views that they do, but have experience they do, and aren’t pessimists.

c) those who form a view which might not be sound (this is where otco will put me,and others no doubt), but have direct experience of benefits, and aren’t pessimists

d) those who could not be bothered with technical understanding but hear benefits. That’s all they need.

e) those who don’t have much understanding of technicality, have never tried or have experience, but are just pessimists on price grounds.

unfortunately group a) say always impress on others they are right, ignoring everyone’s experince. I think this is always ridiculously arrogant, And as you say flies in the face of all those 49 and many thousands more.

the ‘ace card’ is to group a) and e) is always, can you do a double blind, even with no definitive scientific double blind tests.
Yep, those with knowledge are so arrogant. I recently underwent surgery in hospital, weirdly I never considered that I would know more about it than the doctor that performed the operation, but I expect you would think you do. Maybe try replacing the mains leads on the medical equipment?
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Oldphrt said:
Maybe try replacing the mains leads on the medical equipment?
..or maybe filtering out noise might be of benefit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=S0SNaZ-3_os
 

daveh75

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2008
564
3
18,895
QuestForThe13thNote said:
andyjm said:
There has been much hysterical posting on the benefits of 'star connected plug strips' over the last couple of weeks.

Here's why it is all nonsense.

The usual 4 socket plug strip on a trailing lead has a busbar approach to connect the 4 sockets together. The mains cable is fed into one end of the strip and attached to a bent bit of thick solid wire. This bent bit of wire snakes along the strip from socket to socket connecting the spring clips that grip the plug pins when a plug is inserted. There are 3 bits of bent wire, one for all the Live pins, one for all the Neutral pins and one for all the Earth pins. My 'reference' case in point is the Ikea 'KOPPLA' strip which has 4 sockets and a 1.5M trailing lead. A two pack of these socket strips costs £5.00, so effectively £2.50 each (although they can't be bought separately).

A star connected strip still has a trailing lead, but instead of a busbar (the bent bits of wire), each socket on the strip has its own 3 separate lengths of wire (L,N,E) back to the point that trailing lead enters the strip - where all of the wires are connected together at the 'star point'. Titan audio styx strip has this approach, and costs £150.

Why? Why indeed.

The argument, in that there is one, is that a device plugged in at the end of the strip with a busbar will 'steal current' from the other devices plugged into the strip leading to a reduction in audio quality. This problem is avoided when each socket has its own connection back to the 'star point'. Like all good marketing, there is an element of truth to this. Yes, two devices drawing current along the same cable (or busbar) will lead to a greater voltage drop than if they were separate.

But hang on, don't all the devices plugged into the strip share the same 1.5M trailing lead irrespective of whether they have a busbar or their own 8 inch bit of wire in the strip iteslf? ..and don't they all share the same plug and fuse where the trailing lead plugs into the wall? ... and don't they all share the same ring main back to the fuse board? ...and the cable from there to the local distribution point is shared as well?

So the argument is that replacing 8 inches of shared busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable will dwarf all of the voltage drops of the all the other metres and metres of shared conductors on the circuit. Nonsense.

Now there might just be a case if that 8 inch busbar was really thin and weedy wire, the resistance it introduced was significant in relation to the overall loop resistance and the current draw along the strip was very high. It isnt. Ikea (my reference supplier) are a large international organisation. Their strip is rated at 13A, which means you can plug a 13A load into the strip at any point without it catching fire. I think it is safe to assume that Ikea have adequately tested the strip for this current, and therefore we can assume that the busbar is adequately sized to carry 13A from one end of the strip to the other. As it turns out, I have taken an Ikea strip to bits, and the busbar looks to be far thicker than a 13A load would require. My guess is that for manufacturing reasons, a thicker conductor is preferable - easier to form or easier to install. Also worth pointing out that amplifier and source loads are in the order of a few hundred watts (current flows of 1 amp or so) - any voltage drop on the busbar will be minimal.

So, the question is whether replacing 8 inches of shared thick, busbar with 8 inches of unshared cable, given all the metres and metres of shared paths that the supply current takes is audible.

No is the answer.
can we have some pictures and possibly annotations too?

But I think there is so much speculation in many of your points it’s very hard to follow.
Are you for real?

Andy knows what he's talking about!

The likes of You Ellis and Cno shouldn't be allowed near the internet without supervision, and your posts should be watermarked with a warning that under no circumstances should anyone take advice from any of you EVER...
 

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