Star connected plug strips

[Oldphrt]

Gazzips system uses a P10 Power Regenerator from PS Audio and I would be able to demonstrate to him the benefits of other mains products and power cables with a demo same as I have Dirac Live, PC audio and Acoustic treatments galore . I havent yet because I have spent enough of his money and he has a baby on the way after all.

Does he live in a third world country or use a generator? If not there is no benefit.

 

[CnoEvil]

My predictions:

- This thread will reach 100 posts

- There will be no agreement (on anything)

- The insults haven't finished yet.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I bet you listened and decided and if someone told you your speakers measure poorly will you think they sound bad all of a sudden?

Isotek demonstrate their products reduce noise on the mains, they demonstrate the problem is there to begin with.

They then demonstrate how the products affect sound quality and the only way to do this is to play music and let people listen. There is no other way to assess sound quality other than listening I am aware of?

This is all pure marketing bullsh*t. Show punters that there is a problem, even though it has absolutely no effect on the performance of the product, and then show that your product removes that problem... ta-da, salvation and rescue. All marketing ploys are based on fear and doubt principles, you've only got to look at the ads on TV to see that in evidence.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

 

[Oldphrt]

Cheeseboy. No i tell you what I wouldn’t claim that....say I went to specsavers as a doddery old man and had a hearing test which found I needed a hearing aid. I came back for a new aid, which a doctor told me would give better sound. In fact it was an identical hearing aid. Being told it was better I might be biased and start hearing it better, because it’s come from someone who reasonable people would trust - a doctor. That’s really trickery, and this bias has been found to happen with hearing aids. It happens in alternative medicines too. But how on earth can I have that same trust for Dave the hi fi salesman. I’d be an idiot if I did. I so want to make my own mind up, that’s all that matters. Don’t you get this or do you just get sold stuff.

Say you went to a mains cable demo as a clueless young man and heard a difference in mains wires which you bought for a tidy sum. You came back with a new lead which a demo persuaded you would give better sound. In fact it was an identically performing cable.

 

[Oldphrt]

My predictions:

- This thread will reach 100 posts

- There will be no agreement (on anything)

- The insults haven't finished yet.

Just fact from me.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I’ve never bought anything from a show of that type of experience, as I always try it at home first old fart. But I’d agree with you different cables can perform differently on different systems and in fact I’ve found that. So it’s never wise to transpose an experience of a cable in one system being good, as to being good on the home owned system.

Thats why I’m actually giving two mains cables back as explained, as they don’t suit what I want.

 

[ellisdj]

I bet you listened and decided and if someone told you your speakers measure poorly will you think they sound bad all of a sudden?

Isotek demonstrate their products reduce noise on the mains, they demonstrate the problem is there to begin with.

They then demonstrate how the products affect sound quality and the only way to do this is to play music and let people listen. There is no other way to assess sound quality other than listening I am aware of?

This is all pure marketing bullsh*t. Show punters that there is a problem, even though it has absolutely no effect on the performance of the product, and then show that your product removes that problem... ta-da, salvation and rescue. All marketing ploys are based on fear and doubt principles, you've only got to look at the ads on TV to see that in evidence.

Thats exactly what they do? I just said that in the post

Demonstrate the problem noise on the mains - easy to do

demonstrate their products fix the problem i.e. no more noise once using them - easy to do

then show how the products make a system sound - play music with and without them easy to do - all bases covered there if you ask me no sales BS at all - just a demo covering everything that anyone can experience if they attend. Simple as it gets actually.

 

[Oldphrt]

I’ve never bought anything from a show of that type of experience, as I always try it at home first old fart. But I’d agree with you different cables can perform differently on different systems and in fact I’ve found that. So it’s never wise to transpose an experience of a cable in one system being good, as to being good on the home owned system.

Thats why I’m actually giving two mains cables back as explained, as they don’t suit what I want.

If you had a clue you wouldn't have bothered trying them, which is the point I'm repeatedly trying to make.

 

[Oldphrt]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired. I forgive your childish insults, by the way.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen.

These firms are only in business to make money out of gullible folk.

The OP is an electrical engineer... I know who I'd rather believe.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

 

[Oldphrt]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

 

[CnoEvil]

Just fact from me.

We agree on 2 things:

"Experience always beats google. "

"Have you tried it? If you haven't how do you know?"

*unknw*

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen.

These firms are only in business to make money out of gullible folk.

The OP is an electrical engineer... I know who I'd rather believe.

see my post hash 87 on my electrical engineer friend and chord epic. You don’t believe others.....work it out for yourself and give it a go. I heard benefits on your pmc model centre speaker when I had it in a home cinema system.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

you don’t want to engage by the reply. Have you ever done face to face debating....This one would be a great one

 

[Deleted member 108165]

see my post hash 87 on my electrical engineer friend and chord epic. You don’t believe others.....work it out for yourself and give it a go. I heard benefits on your pmc model centre speaker when I had it in a home cinema system.

I experimented with speaker cables and interconnects and I found naff-all difference, as such cables ended there for me, I just buy for assured quality now. But as I've said before I don't have a 20K system or golden ears.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

But Doug, because you have experiences you concede others might not, that’s a good attitude and one I share as I think I will always base things on my own tests and experience and realise views are system dependent too.

 

[Oldphrt]

Just fact from me.

We agree on 2 things:

"Experience always beats google. "

"Have you tried it? If you haven't how do you know?"

*unknw*

Some things you need to try, some things you don't. I don't need to try sticking my fingers in a light socket or changing a mains wire because I know the result.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

They don’t rig demos. If you are inquisitive enough you can look around the back and see what it’s connected up too.

But I’d wouldn’t bother Ellis, these people are not to be persuaded.

At the end of the day there are plenty of systems that get benefits at a certain level. My theory is using power bars and conditioners in many systems just don’t cut it, and I own some of these systems, and other systems that do very much benefit being Very well engineered. Can you imagine a power bar for my chrome cast audio???

For example old fart is running a ‘budget sony’. I’ve got ‘budget Sony’ and it makes damm all differnence putting budget power bars and conditioners on some of these devices.

You just have to be totally objective and experienced of the cables, and powerbars, with no ego attached to how good you think your system is. I suspect some pursuing these arguments have never tried too, or just think the system is much better than it is, such that if a powerbar or conditioner etc doesn’t cut it in their system, they look to the conditioner not cutting it rather than thinking that a conditioner may work in another system. I think it’s bloody sad, because these firms rely on employment of people, and if this diatribe of stuff gets put on the Internet, the gullible start believing it. That particularly gets my goat with these debates.

It can make ****** all difference on anything, as long as the mains is connected. No change in sound quality is possible. How many more times do you have to be told before it sinks in? Good grief, you are so annoying.

we have to be told as our experiences are set by those who profess to know more about things then we do. Plain, undignified, unapologetic...... wtf??

Always listen to experts my child. Don't remain ignorant all your life.

seems to me you are the ignorant one as you have no experience. You might as well get yourself off to a show out of curisosity and sit in a isotek test. You’d probably be the one who ellis mentioned had probably heard a change, but was adamant they were not hearing it.

You probably aren’t even any expert, as an ‘expert’ would be open to views. A scientist can’t deny a persons experience, they have to adequately explain it. You might be an electrical engineer and not have sufficient experience to know why these changes happen. If there is a sufficient enough people who believe on benefits and hear them, then ‘Dave down the pub’ isn’t gonna change their views if they are told what to think. Dave will simply be laughed at.

How about if Dave used to repair the equipment? That's what I did before I retired.

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen, and just because you are a repairer, hi fi shop owner, manufacturer etc, it still may not qualify you to say why x is the case on a power bar, and mains cables. Surely you must appreciate how many things are going on to potentially cause this - different cable, different system, different amount of rfi. The possibilities are endless to work out the interplay of factors that cause heard benefits say in the isotek test.

I sent the original post to an electrical engineering friend who said he thought a lot of what andyjm said was making sense. He has always said he is dubious cables made any difference but when I recommended chord epic, because he has an identical system to me, he came back saying it gave him an extra 10percent performance. He is no nearer explaining it than me, or anyone else. And frankly why care?

Your thinking is like thinking that because my mate is an evolutionary biologist, anything he says about evolution is true to the extent that I must believe everything he says. Of course not. You make your mind up on experiences, intelligence, what’s likely and common sense. Nobody can tell me we emerged from a different evolutionary line, because a lot of what is written like on the origin of species, makes perfect sense, you’ve got experience. Surely you apply your own thinking and experience. How on earth can you apply thinking to something you have no experience if you’ve never heard what these devices do on great systems.

You've been had young man. Learn.

you don’t want to engage by the reply. Have you ever done face to face debating....This one would be a great one

I’ve said before I have an opened mind about things like this but the human race lives on fact and all of the different kinds of mains products are theory only not proven fact because if it was proven then the evidence would be clearly explained by the company’s that make theses products .

i am not dismissing about mains products I just want to understand more to make sense of it all and I think maybe why people are against the subject about any cables as I found that out for my self when I changed my speaker cables to solid core audioquest cables from atlas speaker cables as there is a difference between the 2 cables I can’t explain it but I can prove it .

 

[CnoEvil]

Some things you need to try, some things you don't.

We agree again...now that must be a record (preferablycleaned with distilled water). *biggrin*

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You’ve doomed yourself to never being able to ascertain then. A bit like saying I’m never going to x town, because it’s a dump. And you go there and find the positives. But as I say I doubt it’s worth it on a budget Sony,

 

[Oldphrt]

there is often no definitive full understanding of why these things happen,

In general there is a very full understanding of how electronics works and clamping your hands over your ears and shouting la la la doesn't change that. But please, don't just take my word for it. Ask any expert about your mains nonsense. See if they can convince you. Not Ellis.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not Ellis.

Damn!

 

[Oldphrt]

You’ve doomed yourself to never being able to ascertain then. A bit like saying I’m never going to x town, because it’s a dump. And you go there and find the positives. But as I say I doubt it’s worth it on a budget Sony,

Unless you've heard my Sony you can't really comment, can you? *scratch_one-s_head* It is only temporary, I've leant out my beefy Yamaha. I have loads of old amps knocking around.