Star connected plug strips

[ellisdj]

my View is that the kit of andrewjvt is probably not good enough to hear differences of the isotek blocks Ellis, so another one probably in the camp of not thinking that these devices work simply because his kit probably can’t reveal their benefits. He wouldn’t be the first.

In the isotek demo it would be very easy to choose speakers and amps that make little if no differences, and you’d get a load of people just like andrewjvt.

I dont see it quite like that, I think the lesser quality the box the more likey improvement can be made to it, maybe not who knows - the chaps who are negative on the subject none of them have tried them because there is no point to them. I understand this to a point, but only to a point.

I feel unless my system is perfect and that it couldnt be improved in any way things are worth looking into and trying because unlike sticking fingers in a plug socket or jumping off a bridge it wont kill or even hurt you. Also life is a long time - more than enough time in it to go and listen and try all sorts, surely thats the fun part of this hobby as well.

The kit at Bristol was £1k integrated and I think same for cd player - so decent you would assume. A simple system just 2 components.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I agree to a point ellis but I do think that the better it is the more you can improve it or ruin the sound, Ive found that with the two mains leads.

But when you look at the signatures of the people spouting that this stuff doesn’t make a difference, you often find speakers 15-20 years old, that probably weren’t that great then for the money like nowadays, and well past their acoustic best. Also hardky fantastic amplification. Yet they are still the ‘benchmark’ for forming a view these blocks, cables and conditioners do nothing. Bonkers

My brother in law has my £200 Tannoy Mercury m3s, 21 years old and bought in around 97. I’m sure if I took my pmcs out and put these tannoys in the ability to hear any changes from power cables would be doubtful, lest anywhere near as dramatic as the pmcs.

 

[Oldphrt]

The above is a typical PSU as used in an amplifier. The mains is fed to the transformer that reduces the voltage and isolates the amplifier from the mains. As you can see positive and negative voltage rails are smoothed by electrolytic capacitors to remove all audible traces of the mains waveform. This smooth DC is then used to power the amplifier.

How can anything the mains is fed through affect the quality of the sound of the amplifier when all audible traces of the original waveform have been removed?

 

[jimmy1]

Think i'll start a mains cable company, no work and you get rich *ROFL*

 

[jmjones]

But you are now officially talking tripe, and insulting people. Your previous post is exactly what "expectation bias" is all about. Expecting a cheap system NOT to demonstrate a change? Why not?

I have a system of 20 years of age, service it regularly and know it well. Making a change in it is my method of improving matters, it takes some beating IMO. But you won't find me "lording it" over others.

I've tried interconnects, speaker cables, mains conditioners with very limited success over many years. Even when my system was new, and my hearing was better. Had you considered that?

A car from 20 years ago in good nick is just as good a way of testing tyres as a modern vehicle with its ABS and traction control.

And I'll say it again - If a change is detectable, good for you. If not, fine. I can imagine in some circumstances intereference could be eliminated. Other than that I suggest you stop doing others down to justify your point of view.

 

[Dave_]

But you are now officially talking tripe, and insulting people. Your previous post is exactly what "expectation bias" is all about. Expecting a cheap system NOT to demonstrate a change? Why not?

Now?

He's spouted tripe from the moment he arrived and been an obnoxious troll to boot.

This forum has been diying a death for years now, but that **** is being allowed to drive the final nail in.

Is "holiday" should of been permanent!!!

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Think i'll start a mains cable company, no work and you get rich *ROFL*

you want to have a look at the accounts of some of these firms if you think that. Go on companies house and look at some uk cable firms profit and loss accounts and balance sheets. It’s clearly a struggle. All the tooling, premises costs, insurance, costs of exhibiting at shows, getting stock to dealers, employee costs, problems scaling the business, packaging. It’s endless.

 

[jimmy1]

I'd buy chinese then wrap them to make them look better

 

[ellisdj]

The above is a typical PSU as used in an amplifier. The mains is fed to the transformer that reduces the voltage and isolates the amplifier from the mains. As you can see positive and negative voltage rails are smoothed by electrolytic capacitors to remove all audible traces of the mains waveform. This smooth DC is then used to power the amplifier.

How can anything the mains is fed through affect the quality of the sound of the amplifier when all audible traces of the original waveform have been removed?

So from this assumption all transformers sound the same as well?? And capacitors?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The above is a typical PSU as used in an amplifier. The mains is fed to the transformer that reduces the voltage and isolates the amplifier from the mains. As you can see positive and negative voltage rails are smoothed by electrolytic capacitors to remove all audible traces of the mains waveform. This smooth DC is then used to power the amplifier.

How can anything the mains is fed through affect the quality of the sound of the amplifier when all audible traces of the original waveform have been removed?

So from this assumption all transformers sound the same as well??

totally bonkers. That’s what I was talking about that you can’t transpose general knowledge of electrical principles onto hi-Fi which is more specialist. I do really think a lot of people in his hobby do this,,and it explains why old fart has his views. It would be difficult to understand all the tiny details of what’s going on in amplifiers, if you apply general electrical knowledge.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

But you are now officially talking tripe, and insulting people. Your previous post is exactly what "expectation bias" is all about. Expecting a cheap system NOT to demonstrate a change? Why not?

I have a system of 20 years of age, service it regularly and know it well. Making a change in it is my method of improving matters, it takes some beating IMO. But you won't find me "lording it" over others.

I've tried interconnects, speaker cables, mains conditioners with very limited success over many years. Even when my system was new, and my hearing was better. Had you considered that?

A car from 20 years ago in good nick is just as good a way of testing tyres as a modern vehicle with its ABS and traction control.

And I'll say it again - If a change is detectable, good for you. If not, fine. I can imagine in some circumstances intereference could be eliminated. Other than that I suggest you stop doing others down to justify your point of view.

my point isn’t to put people’s stuff down but it’s a hard reality people in hi Fi regularly don’t admit to. Like the ‘my driving can never be beaten’ thing. And it as much applies to me.... so If I was to come on and say I’ve tried x and y unit which is compared to my kit many more times the quality or price, or however you want to measure it, I’d be mad to say that it’s rubbish because I have a self inflamed view my kit is so good, meaning x or y must not be great. That’s whats going on here.

whether it’s new or not is neither here nor there, but your speakers are from 1995 and they didn’t sell isotek Aquarius units , mentioned by Ellis, then. Also what you can get for same money in 2018 adjusted for inflation is infinetely better nowadays, so whilst you may think your speakers are of a certain quality now related to 20 years ago, I’m sure nowadays similar priced speakers adjusted for inflation, would trounce them. So from that perspective I think it will be easier to tell if these conditioners, or power leads etc make changes, because the kit will be better now, at its price.

Your argumrnt about a car of 20 years ago doesn’t hold true because it doesn’t account the value and what you get nowadays with economies of scale of production we have now. That is market forces driving down price for the same quality. It means a car now of the same price to one in the 90s and inflation adjusted, will have better features, more engine power, etc. It will be much better.

My attitude is you just have to be a realist in all of this stuff, and be objective, not one sidedly subjective. A cheap system won’t reveal a change because it won’t have the transparency, resolving power, realism and dynamic qualities of good hi Fi. That surely is blindingly obvious, just like you can’t expect a CD player for the very very best hi Fi to be better than a budget CD player in a budget system, of budget speakers and amps. Surely you accept that?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Your wrong there actually making assumptions on practice which means you have never attended one of these demos, basing a judgement on a stereo type, its wrong Andy and unfair to assume it.

The demo went like this - bit of chat and explanation - then demonstration of how much noise is on the mains - a lot but not as much as in some places - even saying the mains here is pretty good .  Problem is proven to exist though.

Then this is what happens when you use this product - most noise gone, then this product noise has now nearly all gone - most people sitting there dont even understand what this is but they show it anyway.

Then explanation of this product with its strengths and weakness - then this product and its strengths ands weakness etc.

Then explanation of what going to do - play song - silence change plugs play song again then question - what did you think? 

Answers from people listening as already posted but noone said it didnt make a difference - no one, not even the sceptics that were in the room - also no leading statements, no trying to trick people with a volume change, no selling on the day even - the only advice that was given - go to a dealer and try at home in familiar surroundings with familiar music that was it.  

What they did show was that filtered mains product dont reduce dynamics in any way

There is this chap called Terry that records all the demos on pursuit perfect system on YouTube.

This is the typical type marketing approach I was referring:

https://youtu.be/92eXO7X19B4

Take a look as I smelt bs on that one.

Come on guys we are talking about a freakin extension lead for heaven sake.

For me it's just the same as kids putting racing style wings and stripes on their Vauxhall Corsa.
Makes them feel good but adds zero performance.

 

[jimmy1]

Doesnt the mains transformer in the component convert the electricity anyway?, so the same will come out no matter what you put in

 

[nick8858]

Mentioned I had a headache earlier reading through this disjointed and frankly, largely confusing thread. Its no developed into a migraine!

 

[Andrewjvt]

my View is that the kit of andrewjvt is probably not good enough to hear differences of the isotek blocks Ellis, so another one probably in the camp of not thinking that these devices work simply because his kit probably can’t reveal their benefits. He wouldn’t be the first. 

In the isotek demo it would be very easy to choose speakers and amps that make little if no differences, and you’d get a load of people just like andrewjvt. 

Hegel h360, ATC speakers and benchmark products are not good enough to reveal differences like PMC and Cyrus.
What an embarrassment

Btw I've sold all.of it and only have hc

 

[ellisdj]

Your wrong there actually making assumptions on practice which means you have never attended one of these demos, basing a judgement on a stereo type, its wrong Andy and unfair to assume it.

The demo went like this - bit of chat and explanation - then demonstration of how much noise is on the mains - a lot but not as much as in some places - even saying the mains here is pretty good . Problem is proven to exist though.

Then this is what happens when you use this product - most noise gone, then this product noise has now nearly all gone - most people sitting there dont even understand what this is but they show it anyway.

Then explanation of this product with its strengths and weakness - then this product and its strengths ands weakness etc.

Then explanation of what going to do - play song - silence change plugs play song again then question - what did you think?

Answers from people listening as already posted but noone said it didnt make a difference - no one, not even the sceptics that were in the room - also no leading statements, no trying to trick people with a volume change, no selling on the day even - the only advice that was given - go to a dealer and try at home in familiar surroundings with familiar music that was it.

What they did show was that filtered mains product dont reduce dynamics in any way

There is this chap called Terry that records all the demos on pursuit perfect system on YouTube.

This is the typical type marketing approach I was referring:

https://youtu.be/92eXO7X19B4

Take a look as I smelt bs on that one.

Come on guys we are talking about a freakin extension lead for heaven sake.

For me it's just the same as kids putting racing style wings and stripes on their Vauxhall Corsa. Makes them feel good but adds zero performance.

I dont see why you resorted to getting personal here - you made a set of comments based on a stereo typical ideal and I just said you are wrong and unfair to assume that because that was not the case.

Getting personal is a bit much I dont appreciate it and I dont think its necesary - come and have a listen if you want but leave the personal bit at the door please - genuine offer if you want to?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Your wrong there actually making assumptions on practice which means you have never attended one of these demos, basing a judgement on a stereo type, its wrong Andy and unfair to assume it.

The demo went like this - bit of chat and explanation - then demonstration of how much noise is on the mains - a lot but not as much as in some places - even saying the mains here is pretty good .  Problem is proven to exist though.

Then this is what happens when you use this product - most noise gone, then this product noise has now nearly all gone - most people sitting there dont even understand what this is but they show it anyway.

Then explanation of this product with its strengths and weakness - then this product and its strengths ands weakness etc.

Then explanation of what going to do - play song - silence change plugs play song again then question - what did you think? 

Answers from people listening as already posted but noone said it didnt make a difference - no one, not even the sceptics that were in the room - also no leading statements, no trying to trick people with a volume change, no selling on the day even - the only advice that was given - go to a dealer and try at home in familiar surroundings with familiar music that was it.  

What they did show was that filtered mains product dont reduce dynamics in any way

There is this chap called Terry that records all the demos on pursuit perfect system on YouTube.

This is the typical type marketing approach I was referring:

https://youtu.be/92eXO7X19B4

Take a look as I smelt bs on that one.

Come on guys we are talking about a freakin extension lead for heaven sake.

For me it's just the same as kids putting racing style wings and stripes on their Vauxhall Corsa. Makes them feel good but adds zero performance.

I dont see why you resorted to getting personal here - you made a set of comments based on a stereo typical ideal and I just said you are wrong and unfair to assume that because that was not the case.

Getting personal is a bit much I dont appreciate it and I dont think its necesary - come and have a listen if you want but leave the personal bit at the door please - genuine offer if you want to?

Please advise as I'm lost regards the personal part (that was all well intended tonge in cheek)
Or did my absence of a smiling yellow face confuse you.
Come on man don't take a joke the wrong way
I've made loads of jokes like this with you before and not once have you took it the wrong way.
I thought we were past all that.

 

[ellisdj]

Fair enough if it was a bit of banter, more than thick skinned enough to take banter, relish in it actually - I didnt see it like that sorry - seemed personal using my name like a school teacher

That video didnt come as well as another I filmed at the Indulgence Show - it also wasnt changing anything to do with power - only signal ground.

Try the indulgence video you can hear it clearly in that one

 

[ifor]

My attitude is you just have to be a realist in all of this stuff, and be objective, not one sidedly subjective.

It might be an idea to brush up on your understanding of the words "objective" and "subjective".

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I’d take this with a huge pinch of salt that he can be comparing a £4K Hegel amp to £8k worth of cyrus amplification for the purposes of if conditioning works, plus unknown but old atcs I think, but then start saying that power conditioning doesn’t make any difference on the huge quality of those kudos speakers in your video Ellis, not to mention hugely better quality amplification. more an embarrassment to him I’d think. But he comes across as someone who never tries, so again we probably have the inexperienced talking it down again.

 

[BigH]

Think i'll start a mains cable company, no work and you get rich *ROFL*

you want to have a look at the accounts of some of these firms if you think that. Go on companies house and look at some uk cable firms profit and loss accounts and balance sheets. It’s clearly a struggle. All the tooling, premises costs, insurance, costs of exhibiting at shows, getting stock to dealers, employee costs, problems scaling the business, packaging. It’s endless.

Yes a lot of it marketing and trying to find enough buyers. As you say unless you got a really good system you probably won't hear any difference. As most people don't even have a hifi system then the market is very small.

 

[BigH]

anyone can go to the HiFi show live in Windsor in November this year I think.

Go in to the Sound Fowndations room and listen to a great sounding system being powered off Isotek and Furutech products. It's been seriously great the last 2 years

that's one example

The Bristol Clarity alliance best sound of the show room astin trew and air audio system with the reel to reel tape was being powered from a balanced mains product not sure the name of that one.

Go out to Munich room after room will be out there this year so will film them.

That's 2 off the top of my head + Munich

BigH demo me your system sounding great.

Reminds me of a hifi show when a well know brand forgot to bring their fancy cables so they had to buy the standard cables from B&Q, many people commented on how good those orange cables sounded.

Someone took apart one those fancy cables and found it was a complete con. I hope your videoing technique improves, I can't watch your videos, they are all over the place, maybe you need to buy a tripod?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Exactly and that’s why it’s expensive. Niche market. But ‘Dave down the pub’ just thinks they are trying to con him.

Dave hasn’t actually thought the person demanding the niche product is buying its at its high price, because they see value in it, otherwise the market for the product ain’t there. Dave’s not in the market, as clearly a number aren’t on this thread.

marketing aims to exploit a market which exists, and they’ll have to spend on that too.

 

[ellisdj]

anyone can go to the HiFi show live in Windsor in November this year I think.

Go in to the Sound Fowndations room and listen to a great sounding system being powered off Isotek and Furutech products. It's been seriously great the last 2 years

that's one example

The Bristol Clarity alliance best sound of the show room astin trew and air audio system with the reel to reel tape was being powered from a balanced mains product not sure the name of that one.

Go out to Munich room after room will be out there this year so will film them.

That's 2 off the top of my head + Munich

BigH demo me your system sounding great.

Reminds me of a hifi show when a well know brand forgot to bring their fancy cables so they had to buy the standard cables from B&Q, many people commented on how good those orange cables sounded.

Someone took apart one those fancy cables and found it was a complete con. I hope your videoing technique improves, I can't watch your videos, they are all over the place, maybe you need to buy a tripod?

I dont see the resemblence there, thats bit of a stretch I think. I dont rememeber hearing about that in the last 10 years? When was that?

Genuinely go to the show, its a great show with Great sound in pretty much every room a real cut above and see whats being used and whats not.

I will try and attend one of the normal joe blogs exhibitor shows as thats where someone is most likely to be able to surprise and show me I am wrong. How does that sound?

Maybe dont watch my videos if they are not up to scratch for you, I am doing my best and recently invested about £800 in stabilsation equipment for show videos, which are hard as I have to work around all the people visiting. Maybe watch the other videos that people are creating for them instead.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I’d take this with a huge pinch of salt that he can be comparing a £4K Hegel amp to £8k worth of cyrus amplification for the purposes of if conditioning works, plus unknown but old atcs I think, but then start saying that power conditioning doesn’t make any difference on the huge quality of those kudos speakers in your video Ellis, not to mention hugely better quality amplification. more an embarrassment to him I’d think. But he comes across as someone who never tries, so again we probably have the inexperienced talking it down again. 

So what's the cut off point price wise for the conditioner to work on an amp?

Let us know so we have the formula so we don't waste our time buying conditioners on cheap amps under the £8000 Cyrus cut off point.

How does it work if I have £8000 amp but got large discount?