Speakers to match with a Hegel

[iceman16]

Hi Steve..I've recently suggest a pair of Focal 1028be. You may want to audition them and they're pretty easy to drive and absolutely room filling. Thers a couple of pairs ex demo from audio-t.. BTW my amp is back from repair/upgrade so you might want to have a listen. Pembroke to Swansea is not too far for a journey.

 

[CnoEvil]

Coming back to this, are the 700s the sweet spot of the range, or do the 900s offer something significant extra?

They offer more scale, which is only of benefit if the room is big enough.

IME. All the R Series offer more scale and impact than you would expect from their size.....and the R700s would more than meet the expectation of most people, which can leave the R900s looking a little expensive (hence why I said the R700s were the "sweetspot").

Also, FWIW. the 205/2 is the sweetspot of the old Reference range (imo) because they are a lot better than the 203/2s and are probably 80% as good as the 207/2s, for 60% of the price.

 

[iceman16]

I have heard the PMC .26 with Chord pre/power though good BUT seems to be on a dry analytical sound . Aswell as the Fact 8, very detailed,clear But a tad lean and lacks emotion IMHO.

 

[SteveR750]

Hi Steve..I've recently suggest a pair of Focal 1028be. You may want to audition them and they're pretty easy to drive and absolutely room filling. Thers a couple of pairs ex demo from audio-t.. BTW my amp is back from repair/upgrade so you might want to have a listen. Pembroke to Swansea is not too far for a journey.

Thaanks for the offer, that might be a good idea. I do know that swansea Audio T has PMC (that's where I listened to them), the 1028be and the Kef 700, and 900 and possibly old ref series.

Either way, I'd need to bring my Hegel. There's a plan forming. I need to ring the shop tomorrow am and see what's possible. I was planning to go to Bristol on Saturday, otherwise that would have been ideal.

 

[SteveR750]

ATCs arrive today, meantime I'll also now have the chance to listen to the Focal 1028be and the PMC 26 on the end of the Hegel, albeit in a different room. I'm also going to listen to the Reference 3 as I suspect the R700/900 simply won't compare to the ATC or 26; whereas the R3 would be a more meaningful upgrade. It should be though, as they are in a different price point from eveything else, but might be worth saving up for....then again, active SCM40s. Sometimes, choice is not a good thing.

 

[Barnaby]

Quick update on my comparison of the Hegel to my Supernait with Hi-Cap2.

What I hear in the Hegel compared to the Naim is a fair bit more of the treble, but that treble is very much smoother and rounded. With Naim there seems less of it but it is more "edgy". The treble was sweetened on the Naim by the addition of a Hi-Cap2 but it still has a tad more edge than the Hegel and there is still less of it.

The Hegel bass is very deep and tight. I did notice a slight "blooming" of bass when I added the HC2 to the Naim amp and while not at all unpleasant, I wasn't sure how "natural" it was. The Hegel has a much tighter and apparently cleaner bass than the S/n on it's own ( without the HC2) and I prefer it to the S/n with HC2.

Which is better is a matter of taste. Some may say the Naim is more "defined" others, might call it "harsh" or "edgy".

Personally, I find the Hegel to be smoother and more refined, and I suspect less fatiguing over the long haul. Time will tell. I have another week of trial left but I'm very likely to keep it.

 

[SteveR750]

Interesting comparison Barnaby. I thought the opposite - I thought the supernait was adding a bit of warmth / veil over the sound and masking some detail, but then it was in different rooms / speakers and source so not really a valid comparison at all. The Hegel has a much smoother top end than my M2, which given the low distortion design target for Hegel is perhaps not surprising. The smoothness is not at the expense of detail, things like being able to hear background conversations on tracks off The Wall for example. One "test" track I use for detail is Chris Rea's Road to Hell. There are some in car radio broadcasts going on, and with each upgrade I've been able to hear more of them, and work out what they are saying. It took the K2 for example to hear the whispered "more bad news"; with the Hegel pretty much all of them are legible.

 

[SteveR750]

Oof!

Cripes!

@"&!

Jeez, these things are good.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sounds promising (so to speak).

 

[dogg5306]

OK guys you convinced me... I'm getting an H160... (currently owning a K2)... it will coupled some B&W CM9...
(I know I know I'll get it demoed at home too... *preved* )

 

[MUSICRAFT]

OK guys you convinced me... I'm getting an H160... (currently owning a K2)... it will coupled some B&W CM9...(I know I know I'll get it demoed at home too... *preved* )

Hi dogg5306

Nice one

your CM9's are in for a treat

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

Oof!

Cripes!

@"&!

Jeez, these things are good.

I thought that was just the sound of you trying to lift them!

 

[JoelSim]

Try some Kudos Steve. They go very loud without sounding strained, and also sound very detailed at low volumes. Then again my amp is a beast.

 

[Barnaby]

Hi Steve

I don't reckon we're saying the opposite really. I can hear lots more in the upper registers with the Hegel and it is smooth and rounded. To my ears and with my system, it seems that the Naim misses some of that but that what is there seems to be emphasised in a less rounded way. It's almost like it gives the appearance of detail by drawing attention to it more.

Mind you as you say source and speakers are different. Also so is the amp - my S/n is a mk 1 and has a HiCap2 added.

Hope you enjoy your quest for speakers. I'm off to listen to some Harbeths next week

 

[Barnaby]

Hi Rick, I'm auditioning some Harbeths soon. Any ideas how they work with the Hegel?

 

[SteveR750]

Oof!

Cripes!

@"&!

Jeez, these things are good.

I thought that was just the sound of you trying to lift them!

Right, where to start...

Indeed Ben, they took an age to unpack, involved 2 of us lifting them out of the UPS van for starters. Unpacking them without damaging them takes some time and thought as well, they are bigger than I remembered too, much wider and heavier than the D18. Did I mention that they were heavy? I nearly frazzled the amp wiring them up (as in forgot to switch it off...d'oh)

Anyhoo, fired up and ready to rock and, er, roll...sort of. I was expecting too be blown out of my chair like a crash test dummy in the Eurofighter test labs, but no, I wasn't. In fact, my initial thoughts were blimey how good the D18s must be; then slowly, notre by note, track by track it dawned on me that I wasn't listening to my hi fi anymore. No more shimmering highs, room thundering bass, it was just a bunch of people playing some music well, some very very well, some a bit shite tbh; but it was if I had climbed inside a room with music in it from somewhere. Did I mention they were heavy? Jesus, they go loud too, very loud as in I doubt my 30W boutique valve amp could keep up loud, so no issues there. I noticed some other odd things (as you do): the cabinets were lively and some, the D18s and the spendors as I recall felt dead and lifeless by comoparison. Then I noticed the huuuge excursion the bass driver was making, and of course it makes sense, they are not ported, so rely on sheer welly to move enough air.

OK to use some more conventional adjectives. Open. Detailed. massively "quick", smooooth as silk in the treble, and oh boy a mid range that makes vocals sound earily real every where in the house! Not just the listening room. I can understand the fuss about that domed mid unit, but this tweeter is soemthing else, it's smoother and more detailed than the ribbon in the ProAcs, let alone the PMC unit.

Above all, I get the reviews that try (and mostly fail) to explain the "when it's good it's fabulous, when it's not it's, well not great" comments. The thing is, they are not "exciting" speakers to listen to, unless the music you choose to play is exciting. Carp recordings are carply recorded but exciting as hell, and I can tell you all my early ACDC CDs sound like I've not heard them since the good old days of the Amstrad Tower, when I first discovered them. That's the best analogy I can think of. They are not really a demo room sparkler, and many people will walk by I suspect, dismissing them for lack of really low bass (they don't have it) and a slightly boring sound, because unless you're in the mood, it often is. Maybe it's the Hegel, maybe as well there is the sense of invincibility, the same emotion when buying a big beefy off roader, you know it can do stuff even if you have no intention of doing it.

Did I mention their weight? They tick the box of LOUD rock n roll spot on, and I can just as easily follow the bass lines of Cliff Williams just as well as I could on the PMCs, and even easier to follow the fingerous dexterity of Sir Entwistle (I'll bet many audiophiles would be amazed if they hadn't seen already, the bass lines to Won't Get Fooled Again. You sure won't hear them on most systems of £2k - £3k per box that's for sure.

What else? I still think the Hegel is a bigger "improvement" from the M2 which is a fine amp under £2k anyway, but it's likely that I could stuff an H12 and a couple of bridged H30s at 1kW apiece and still not worry the ATCs too much.....

At the moment, I seem to find myself firmly convinced and entrenched in the low distortion camp, it's not always that "thrilling", but don't mistake that for being laid back. I read somewhere that these things has such a transient response they were quicker than the legendary Ali. I reckon they are right, the drum "solo" on Shoot To Thrill is like I have never heard before other than someone playing it in front of me whilst I was trying to keep up with the little fill in riffs.

I'm still going to try to listen to the KEFs and the Focals, they will have to be special to be better, and even if they sound "nicer", I'm not sure I'd want them anyway.

 

[SteveR750]

Hi Rick, I'm auditioning some Harbeths soon. Any ideas how they work with the Hegel?

Any of them, but try the Super HL5+ I'll bet it will sound sublime.

I can't go to bed (everyone else has) I've got lost in War of the Worlds, on Spotify. No hi-res malarky here, but what an album.

 

[BenLaw]

*biggrin* S[font="ProximaNova-Semibold, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]tudio Control Monitor![/font]

[font="ProximaNova-Semibold, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]Sounds like you're sold on them to me. I only have the original version, but you've identified many of the qualities with which I'm familiar. [/font]

 

[drummerman]

Hi Steve

I don't reckon we're saying the opposite really. I can hear lots more in the upper registers with the Hegel and it is smooth and rounded. To my ears and with my system, it seems that the Naim misses some of that but that what is there seems to be emphasised in a less rounded way. It's almost like it gives the appearance of detail by drawing attention to it more.

Mind you as you say source and speakers are different. Also so is the amp - my S/n is a mk 1 and has a HiCap2 added.

Hope you enjoy your quest for speakers. I'm off to listen to some Harbeths next week

Never heard a Hegel but Naim's certainly sound slightly rounded off at the top (they are also upper frequency limited by design, its not a wide band amplifier design ... ).

However, from a personal point of view, I do wonder if exactly that is the reason for the subjective musicality of Naim products. - Sound stage and 'air', often a by-product of extended frequency response ranks way down my list of priorities. As a matter of fact, I sometimes find it distracts my listening, taking away from a 'cohesive' whole.

Naim's do the low and middle bit well, driving the beat/music along without the pronounced detail and sound staging most far eastern products do so well.

Maybe it doesn't go with accuracy is everything camp but they also don't sound to 'hifi'.

 

[SteveR750]

Maybe it doesn't go with accuracy is everything camp but they also don't sound to 'hifi'.

I know what you mean. This is the least hi fi sounding system I've owned / listened to. You could almost argue it's ever so slightly underwhelming, but it's a bit like climbing into the speakers.with the music just simply being there. The only irritating distraction is that of the band or musicians themselves, it's not going to make you like music you didn't before, whereas I think a lot of Hi-Fi seems to encourage that. This system isn't going to make you suddenly want to play stuff you don't really like.

 

[CnoEvil]

Maybe it doesn't go with accuracy is everything camp but they also don't sound to 'hifi'.

I know what you mean. This is the least hi fi sounding system I've owned / listened to. You could almost argue it's ever so slightly underwhelming, but it's a bit like climbing into the speakers.with the music just simply being there. The only irritating distraction is that of the band or musicians themselves, it's not going to make you like music you didn't before, whereas I think a lot of Hi-Fi seems to encourage that. This system isn't going to make you suddenly want to play stuff you don't really like.

From what I understand, the new SCM40s have added a "musicality" to the previous model, without losing the insight/detail...not an easy thing to pull off.

IMO. Even though you should try to hear as many speakers as you can, I suspect that you are looking at the New Ref range rather than the R Series.

It looks like you enjoy a very clean, detailed, revealing and acurate sound, that isn't dry, sterile or over-analytical....not always easy to achieve.

Nice review btw.

 

[SteveR750]

Maybe it doesn't go with accuracy is everything camp but they also don't sound to 'hifi'.

I know what you mean. This is the least hi fi sounding system I've owned / listened to. You could almost argue it's ever so slightly underwhelming, but it's a bit like climbing into the speakers.with the music just simply being there. The only irritating distraction is that of the band or musicians themselves, it's not going to make you like music you didn't before, whereas I think a lot of Hi-Fi seems to encourage that. This system isn't going to make you suddenly want to play stuff you don't really like.

From what I understand, the new SCM40s have added a "musicality" to the previous model, without losing the insight/detail...not an easy thing to pull off.

IMO. Even though you should try to hear as many speakers as you can, I suspect that you are looking at the New Ref range rather than the R Series.

It looks like you enjoy a very clean, detailed, revealing and acurate sound, that isn't dry, sterile or over-analytical....not always easy to achieve.

Nice review btw.

Thanks Cno, I was loosely gathering my somewhat obtuse thoughts, no doubt aided by some of Joel's red medicine! Upon further reflection, I'm struck by how difficult and cliched it is to try to review music full stop, in that most of the reviews use phrases like "not sugaring the pill", "ripping into your CDs" "ruthlessly revealing", which all add up to something to be perhaps afraid of; these large ungainly boxes that are going to kick your ears into submission. Well, they don't. Nothing like it, the new tweeter is simply better than the PMC, the midrange is just clearer, louder when it's loud, and not when it's not. I had envisaged "poor" recordings to rip my head off, the way that my old Gibson SG with the 490T and R pups did played through a 30W blues combo I had, no matter what I did it was ear piercingly shrill, and I got rid of both eventually in search of something more pleasant. I've not found anything yet that sounds remotely harsh in my music collection, though no doubt that SG would have hurt as much as it did in reality; but I'd be as bold to say that in fact the ATC sound is the opposite of most reviewers comments are usually interpreted

Spotify, with its allegedly inferior low bit rate compressed files should sound splashy, vague and a bit, well harsh and grainy. Guess what, it doesn't, and most of the new music I listen to sounds as fantastic as any of my FLACS, in fact a lot better than many of them. So, it is most certainly not fatiguing in the slightest bit, and every now and again a track pops up with some pretty special mixing and simply makes you grin stupidly.

I don't for one minute think that they are the best boxes on the planet, but from my experience so far you've got to spend a fair bit to better them, if you want vanilla music, especially loud, vanilla music. I'd expect the new KEFs to be better, noticeably better, but then they are more than twice the price, and to be honest, even money no object, the laws of diminishing returns means it's started to become a box obession, for very little gain, and I'd much rather spend the money on a new Derek Trucks signature SG for my fast-becoming-better-than-his-Dad son!

Sometimes you have to realise that the field you're in is a pretty nice shade of pastel after all, and think about helping the grass grow in someones else's field instead.

 

[CnoEvil]

The "ATC sound" ( a bit like Kef Refs) is simply a reflection of how good the system is that's driving them....and is why I would encourage you to hear the New Refs, even if it's mostly out of curiosity.

 

[SteveR750]

I think so too Cno, and I'm tempted to attach a pair of blades to see what this little Norwegian thing can do.

 

[CnoEvil]

.......and I'm tempted to attach a pair of blades to see what this little Norwegian thing can do.

Good man.