Speakers to match with a Hegel

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi shafesk

Just to clarify i was referring to the presentation of the H160 and H300 amplifiers with regards to speakers. The H160 has a full bodied and rich tone whereas in comparison the H300 approaches from a slightly different angle with a cleaner and precise tone.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SteveR750]

Rick, I'd be intrigued to hear the H160 preamp driving an H30 into the SCM40s.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Steve

Sure

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SteveR750]

And, relax.

Well, I've had the new curvy SCM40s in my house now for just over a week, and have spent hours in their company, more than enough to have really got under their skin so to speak, and find out if it's a love affair that has the staying power. I have concluded, that in the style of a good red, the more you drink of it, the more sublime it becomes, so for me the journey over for time being, this combination of Norwegian electrons and Gloucestershire prize fighter has me absolutely enthralled. I've no idea what the old tweeter was like, but the new one is something else. All of the reviews keep adding caveats about ruthlessly revealing poor recordings, almost suggesting that some of your music collection will be consigned to to the bin as unlistenable, well they're not. It's not a good description of what is really going on; I understand the comments, but it's been poorly explained. Everything sounds good, just that some recordings are excellent, truly excellent, and that you will more easily notice the difference between the two extremes. That is not the same as being unlistenable, harsh, lacking detail/musicality or whatever other audiophile adjective you care to apply.

In practice, cymbals sounds like cymbals; loud, crashy and metallic, that metallic shimmer they seem to possess. They might not have the most extended bass, but it's all there, where it should be and not smearing vocals, or hiding lower mid detail. It's possible of course that an underpowered inferior amp would render them a lot more difficult to listen to, but the combination of the Heg and the ATCs is fabulous, at any volume. Films are a revelation also, I watched Top Gun (as you do) last night on Blu ray, and whilst unsurprisingly the sound of F14s blatting across the sky is something special, it was the musical score that I noticed had changed! Kenny Loggins has never sounded so great, it absolutely thumped out the soundtrack, just like it was supposed to with the subtlety of a jet fighter smashing you between the eyes!

Have to say thanks Rick for helping me out!

 

[Romulus]

And, relax.

Well, I've had the new curvy SCM40s in my house now for just over a week, and have spent hours in their company, more than enough to have really got under their skin so to speak, and find out if it's a love affair that has the staying power. I have concluded, that in the style of a good red, the more you drink of it, the more sublime it becomes, so for me the journey over for time being, this combination of Norwegian electrons and Gloucestershire prize fighter has me absolutely enthralled. I've no idea what the old tweeter was like, but the new one is something else. All of the reviews keep adding caveats about ruthlessly revealing poor recordings, almost suggesting that some of your music collection will be consigned to to the bin as unlistenable, well they're not. It's not a good description of what is really going on; I understand the comments, but it's been poorly explained. Everything sounds good, just that some recordings are excellent, truly excellent, and that you will more easily notice the difference between the two extremes. That is not the same as being unlistenable, harsh, lacking detail/musicality or whatever other audiophile adjective you care to apply.

In practice, cymbals sounds like cymbals; loud, crashy and metallic, that metallic shimmer they seem to possess. They might not have the most extended bass, but it's all there, where it should be and not smearing vocals, or hiding lower mid detail. It's possible of course that an underpowered inferior amp would render them a lot more difficult to listen to, but the combination of the Heg and the ATCs is fabulous, at any volume. Films are a revelation also, I watched Top Gun (as you do) last night on Blu ray, and whilst unsurprisingly the sound of F14s blatting across the sky is something special, it was the musical score that I noticed had changed! Kenny Loggins has never sounded so great, it absolutely thumped out the soundtrack, just like it was supposed to with the subtlety of a jet fighter smashing you between the eyes!

Have to say thanks Rick for helping me out!

Does that mean you have decided to keep the SCM40s and no more auditions of KEF & Monitor Audio speakers?

 

[SteveR750]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

Remember, you are not listening for your benefit, but ours!

 

[Jota180]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

Remember, you are not listening for your benefit, but ours!

and we'll be expecting hourly updates and served cool beers while we read.

 

[DocG]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

Remember, you are not listening for your benefit, but ours!

and we'll be expecting hourly updates and served cool beers while we read.

Aah, cool beers...

 

[SteveR750]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

Remember, you are not listening for your benefit, but ours!

Which is surely the point of a forum, much more helpful than the I'm a smarter engineer than you threads.

Meantime, Cno if you get the chance do listen to these two together. For £5k I doubt there is much that can match the sound,though as ever ymmv as they over t'pond

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes. I might listen to them if I get a chance, the Ref 3s might well be better but at nearly 3x price that would not be surprising. What's worth bearing in mind is that the new system has an RRP difference of about £1k over the previous amp and speakers.

Remember, you are not listening for your benefit, but ours!

Which is surely the point of a forum, much more helpful than the I'm a smarter engineer than you threads.

Meantime, Cno if you get the chance do listen to these two together. For £5k I doubt there is much that can match the sound,though as ever ymmv as they over t'pond

I haven't seen either of these brands being sold in NI....but I do like the sound of the pairing.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Norweigan amp and Gloucestershire speakers a match made in heaven! ( I don't expect many people to get the significance) I really like the ATC brand it's a good old honest brand making products that punch way above there price.

 

[matt49]

Norweigan amp and Gloucestershire speakers a match made in heaven! ( I don't expect many people to get the significance) I really like the ATC brand it's a good old honest brand making products that punch way above there price.

Oh, we know what you mean all right. *yes3*

 

[iQ Speakers]

Only the intellectual. I met an old chap a few days ago who used to build cabinets for ATC good old cottage industry.

 

[SteveR750]

Only the intellectual. I met an old chap a few days ago who used to build cabinets for ATC good old cottage industry.

Ha. I'm sure he must have made mine, from his dining table.

 

[SteveR750]

Norweigan amp and Gloucestershire speakers a match made in heaven! ( I don't expect many people to get the significance) I really like the ATC brand it's a good old honest brand making products that punch way above there price.

Plagiarism, yadder yadder.

 

[SteveR750]

I haven't seen either of these brands being sold in NI....but I do like the sound of the pairing.

Apart from the post about connecting to the centre binding making a difference, this might interest you Cno.

 

[CnoEvil]

I haven't seen either of these brands being sold in NI....but I do like the sound of the pairing.

Apart from the post about connecting to the centre binding making a difference, this might interest you Cno.

Thank you for the link..there certainly seems a lot of love, though Naim doesn't float my boat.

 

[CnoEvil]

Duplicate.

 

[SteveR750]

Randomly listened to this on Spotify whilst working in home office, I've just gone into the other room to check what the cats were doing, and my mother in law answereed the door...to the clapping backbeat sound! I swear it's coming from behind my head!

(Above & Beyond - All Over The World)

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

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_34354971]

I'm listening to the h160 for about 2 weeks now, and from the beginning it had a noticeable sibilance which doesn't seem to wear off with time. The S's and the T's in pretty much every song I'm playing sound emphasized and unpleasant, somethnig I never noticed with the Naim 5si I have.

The amp is connected to a computer via USB. Sources are lossless files (FLAC, APE, etc). Speakers are Spendor s3/5r2.

Things I've tried to no avail:
- changing speaker cables, 4 different ones
- playing through Naim DAC-V1
- playing via Airplay/network
- changing speakers to B&W 685 S2

SteveR750, have you had any experience similar to mine with the h160?
Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_34354971]

-duplicate-

 

[SteveR750]

No, quite the opposite in fact. Where the Roksans were lacking in treble detail / harsh the H160 is ultra smooth, or is with the ATCs anyway. The D18s that I had suffered from sibilance but that was the ProAc tweeter, not the amp. Given how neutral the ATC drivers are, I don't think it's your amp, unless it is not working properly.

I've got mine connected via USB, also playing FLAC and Spotify. Cables are cheap QED XT, the interconnect is an Amazon essentials USB 3.0. The only reason I mention it is because it has gold plated terminals, and I suspect that not all USB ports are assembled equally with the same degree of care. It may or may not help in ensuring a decent electrical contact, but it was only £5

Have you tried putting the Naim back in place, does it obviously disappear?

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_34354971]

Putting the Naim back immediately tames the sibilants, they dissolve in a natural manner, without attracting attention. While with the h160 there's a sharp whistle-like sound, mainly with the S's in vocals.
Same effect is noticable through the headphone output.

(otherwise the sound is a step up from the 5si in terms of resolution, separation and overall enjoyment, as long as there are no vocals involved)

 

[SteveR750]

Putting the Naim back immediately tames the sibilants, they dissolve in a natural manner, without attracting attention. While with the h160 there's a sharp whistle-like sound, mainly with the S's in vocals. Same effect is noticable through the headphone output.

(otherwise the sound is a step up from the 5si in terms of resolution, separation and overall enjoyment, as long as there are no vocals involved)

You have to decide whether a) it's your ears simply not liking the new reality; b) the Hegel is pants, c) the speakers need changing.

I know what I'd do, but that won't help you. My take FWIW - I auditioned the Naim some years ago, against Arcam and Rokasan K2. I bought the K2 (with some Spendor S5e). I thought the Naim was a rather weedy sounding box if I'm honest, the Arcam slow and ponderous. The only amp/speaker combination that was sibilant to my ears was the Caspian M2/Proac D18, and the Hegel only slightly less so. The bizzare part is that Spendors are hardly known for having a distorted and overly harsh treble. If you can, try it with some other speakers, and then decide. If not, then you know the logical conclusion.

EDIT - rereading your post - a "whistling" sound on vocals is not at all what you would expect. Before you do anything rash, get it checked out.