Speakers to match with a Hegel

SteveR750

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I've had a few hours with the H160 amp in my system at home, and it's deeply impressive. I expected better control compared to the Roksan, a more extended and controlled bass, and it does do that, but what I had not expected was the step change in detail. Not only detail as in the sense of hearing more instruments, or ebing able to hear double tracked vocals more easily; but the detail that renders the soundstage much more solidly.

The change from the M2 is bigger than I recall from the ATC amp that I demo'd last week, the D18s in my room / system sound much better than the D20R in the demo room, the lack of bass and shoutiness that I was getting has gone. I think that the search for a new amp has for the time being been satisfied, but this process is as ever a continuing journey; and good as the D18s are, they are just not big enough for the room.

I've made a mental note to listen to a pair of ATC SCM40 soon, as I suspect that their transparency and dynamic drive are going to suit my tastes, but this is a stage for later this year, and given the subtle variations in speakers I'm planning to demo a bigger range. As well as the ATC, I really should listen to the newer Spendors, I have fond memories of the S5e that I used to own

Back to the Hegel, the headphone amp output is comparable to the MF M1 amp, and the biggest surprise is the quality of the onboard DAC. It's also very easy to set up - no need to visit a website to download drivers, they are uploaded and installed automatically when you first connect the unit to a PC. There is then a chpoice of output modes: Direct Sound, WASAPI and Kernel Streaming. I've only tried WASAPI so far, which works without any problems playing from J River or from Spotify. To try to quantify the sound improvements, Spotify now sounds better than any FLAC or Hi Res tracks via the M2 in the mid and upper treble, which is normally the most compromised range when using lossy compressed formats. Lossless FLAC off J River is clearly better, and it still amazes me the quality of audio that is available from a properly set up computer as a source. If only it was glitch free (the gizmo app doesn't always want to communicate with the software, but I think that's an Android/Samsung issue), and occasionally I get duplicated albums for no obvious reason.

One of the other big advantages is that it replaces 3 boxes, I don't have much space on my rack, with the DAC already relegated to sitting on the floor next to the rest of the units; so it gets a very positive domestic approval.
 

SteveR750

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Thanks Cno.

Shortlist thus far, and the chance to demo a whole bunch in one go:

ATC SC40, KEF 203/2, PMC OB1i, Spendor D7, outsiders MA PL300 or the 200

Another step up perhaps, if budget was increased:

Kef Reference 3, PMC EB1i, Neat Ultimatum XLi, Kef 205/2, PMC 26
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
Thanks Cno.

Shortlist thus far, and the chance to demo a whole bunch in one go:

ATC SC40, KEF 203/2, PMC OB1i, Spendor D7, outsiders MA PL300 or the 200

Another step up perhaps, if budget was increased:

Kef Reference 3, PMC EB1i, Neat Ultimatum XLi, Kef 205/2, PMC 26

The New and old Refs are quite different. If you like what the R Series do, New Refs will take it up several notches.....nice list though.
 

dim_span

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SteveR750 said:
CnoEvil said:
GamuT

PMC

Kef R Series

ART

Tannoy

Diapason

Harbeth

Cno, interesting list, no ATC?

Bear in mind it's a large room, and often play it at high volumes, no such thing as background music here!

I like older gear .... I've never seen these, but I have read lots about them:

ELECTRO-VOICE PATRICIAN:[/u]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171655356721?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/535/57/Electro-Voice-Patrician-800/

snip:

"The Patrician", was a five-way speaker with a 18" woofer and 12" mid-woofer plus a multicell horn and T10 tweeter, as well as with the parallel-connected 8 inch SP8BT element
 

Electro

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Mar 30, 2011
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SteveR750 said:
Thanks Cno.

Shortlist thus far, and the chance to demo a whole bunch in one go:

ATC SC40, KEF 203/2, PMC OB1i, Spendor D7, outsiders MA PL300 or the 200

Another step up perhaps, if budget was increased:

Kef Reference 3, PMC EB1i, Neat Ultimatum XLi, Kef 205/2, PMC 26

Don't forget the PMC PB1i's, there is an ex demo pair for a good price below .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PMC-PB1i-Loudspeakers-Oak-Ex-display-/161578048696?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item259ecd5cb8

They will fill a large room easily with enormous, powerful large scale music with live music dynamic energy and bass down to 24hz that you feel through your body .

I chose the PB1i's because they they were the only speakers that I could afford that did not dissapoint me when I came back from a live performance !

To get any real improvement over the PB1i you will have to step up to the IB2i .

http://www.whathifi.com/pmc/pb1i/review

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi-fi-plus-pmc-pb1i-floorstanding-loudspeaker/

http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article/pmc-pb1i-signature-pound;7315/9397
 

SteveR750

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Thanks Electro - already on my "watch" list.

Purely from reading reviews, my priority shorter list is the SCM40, the PB1s and the MA PL300 which I have found at nearly half price ex demo (the 200 are also available at nearly half price ex demo).

I've put the OB1s and the D7s on the rear part of the cooker for the time being.
 

Electro

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SteveR750 said:
Thanks Electro - already on my "watch" list.

Purely from reading reviews, my priority shorter list is the SCM40, the PB1s and the MA PL300 which I have found at nearly half price ex demo (the 200 are also available at nearly half price ex demo).

I've put the OB1s and the D7s on the rear part of the cooker for the time being.

This might help , or not *biggrin*

http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/pmc-pure-musical-charm.html
 

JoelSim

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Bloody hell Steve, how big is your room? Does the Hegel not produce enough power? I'm amazed, my Leema/Kudos pairing could shake the walls of an aircraft hanger.

It is therefore a suggestion that you put the Kudos C20 on your audition list. My C2, which is cheaper, doesn't waver at all when the volume goes up to 5. At volume 6 the police would turn up, the foundations would start crumbling, the girl downstairs would break in with a kitchen knife in her hand (even if she was out) and my ears would start bleeding.

If I ever feel the need to upgrade I would probably look at these first.

Or perhaps if you really want to upgrade the Kudos Titan T88. Whoosh.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
I found the Spendors to be a bit too polite, although I've not heard the latest incarnations, though the D7 looks interesting. It's difficult to find a less than stellar review anywhere of the SCM40s, I think the control of the Hegel would work well with them. The dark horse(s) are the Monitor Audio PL200, these have a similar sonic transparency and speed that the ATC's possess, so I should really listen to them too. The only issue with the ATCs is the lack of sensitivity, and a lowish impedance. The Hegel can almost double in power into 4 ohms, but it's not a kilowatt, and a big room needs a bit of voltage to fill it.
 
Hi SteveR750

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the performance of the H160
regular_smile.gif


All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
JoelSim said:
Bloody hell Steve, how big is your room? Does the Hegel not produce enough power? I'm amazed, my Leema/Kudos pairing could shake the walls of an aircraft hanger.

It is therefore a suggestion that you put the Kudos C20 on your audition list. My C2, which is cheaper, doesn't waver at all when the volume goes up to 5. At volume 6 the police would turn up, the foundations would start crumbling, the girl downstairs would break in with a kitchen knife in her hand (even if she was out) and my ears would start bleeding.

If I ever feel the need to upgrade I would probably look at these first.

Or perhaps if you really want to upgrade the Kudos Titan T88. Whoosh.

The amp is definitely not the problem!. The D18s only have a 165mm single bass/mid, it's always going to struggle at high volumes for extended periods. A bigger pair of floorstanders will give a more extended bottom end, and handle the higher volumes with greater ease.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Electro said:
SteveR750 said:
Thanks Electro - already on my "watch" list.

Purely from reading reviews, my priority shorter list is the SCM40, the PB1s and the MA PL300 which I have found at nearly half price ex demo (the 200 are also available at nearly half price ex demo).

I've put the OB1s and the D7s on the rear part of the cooker for the time being.

This might help , or not *biggrin*

(I had to delete the link, it wouldn't pass the spam filter)

Although that's comparing the PMC to the older ATCs. The new SCM40s appear to be significantly improved from the reviews I've read. I'm pretty sure could metaphorically thrash them within an inch of their power limit and they'd be fine. I'm pretty sure the Hegel would have no problems driving them hard either; 250W into a 4 ohm load isn't surprising given the size of the transformer in it.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
HFC review of the H160 here

I think they miss the point slightly with an onboard DAC - yes there is an argument that it restricts your choice as tech moves, but that assumes that there is some huge pace of DAC development, there isn't. Most of them sound pretty similar within a fairly wide price band. Despite that, even without a DAC, at around £2k I think few SS amps will better it, and few of its competitors have inbuilt DACs.

Back to the speaker conundrum, after a bit of experimentation of speaker positioning has helped somewhat. I have to say, the ProAcs sounds stunning. Part of the issue is that the sound is now so free of harshness that it's easy to play it louder than you realise. I'm having to recalibrate my ears in that respect, and at moderate / mid levels it's so alive, the level of detail and sound staging is quite staggering.

I'm pretty sure it would require a significant amount of £££ to warrant an upgrade.
 

matt49

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SteveR750 said:
I'm pretty sure it would require a significant amount of £££ to warrant an upgrade.

In which case, I'd be thinking of saving up my pennies for a bigger upgrade further down the road. It would also have the benefit of giving you more time to find the speakers that are right for you.

Matt
 

lpv

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For same money ( and since you like the sound of ATC and you looking for speakers now anyway) I would get SCM40 actives and forget... true, you've got pre amp and dac in your Hegel but you did have DacMagic before..

anyway... in the amp category any Hegel product is at the moment one of the best available and good value too.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
MUSICRAFT said:
Hi SteveR750

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the performance of the H160

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks Rick, great service, and many thanks for your help!

lpv said:
For same money ( and since you like the sound of ATC and you looking for speakers now anyway) I would get SCM40 actives and forget... true, you've got pre amp and dac in your Hegel but you did have DacMagic before..

anyway... in the amp category any Hegel product is at the moment one of the best available and good value too.

That is at the back of my mind, but I wasn't ready to chuck it all out and start again. The DACmagic isn't up to feeding active 40s, I suspect a Hegel HD12 in front of them would be more like it. Using the H160 pre-out might not be the most effective ££ solution.
 

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