Speakers to match with a Hegel

[rainsoothe]

said "rich", not "warm" - amazing midrange, also a lot of air thanks to ribbon tweeter. Seriously, give them an audition.

 

[SteveR750]

OK, on my list to investigate, thanks.

 

[SteveR750]

Except I cannot find anyone in the UK selling the Motion 40 / 60. Even the ML site isn't responding to searching England....

 

[Barnaby]

There is one dealer on ML's site if it helps, Absolute Sounds in London, though looking at it, it might be a distributor or something? If you follow the link to dealers on Absolute Sounds website ther are a few dealers selling ML

 

[SteveR750]

If their UK pricing is dollar ex rate consistent, then they are either not quite the level that I'm looking at (on the basis you usually get what you pay for) or they are an absolute steal. Most US retailers are selling the 60s for under £2k at current rates.

 

[SteveR750]

Had an interesting chat with Hegel this morning, refreshingly open about their products; but I was intrigued by their experience of using the H160 to drive some Magicos. It will be interesting to see what they are using at Bristol!

 

[SteveR750]

Had a listen this morning to pmc twenty 24 and 26. Cup was a £4k naim and a supernait, both of which were impressive in their own right.

TThe 24 was nice, but had a slight upper bass bloom that was smearing the double bass notes into madeleine peyroux's voice. Overall though very nice, probably slightly more detailed and smoother than the D18s but not enough to warrant the change.

Next up the 26s. I really liked these, a wider bandwidth, a fantastically tuneful bass, nice open detailed mid. Listening to Back in Black by acdc was a revelation, it's so easy to understand why they are such a great rock band. Crash cymbals so much clearer with a great hard metallic shimmer to them. Cliff Williams bass lines were easy to follow, something I cannot do easily with proacs. A worthwhile upgrade, albeit an expensive one.

So far then, the 26 on my list, 24 crossed off, spendors crossed off. D30R a possibility, but the 26s out muscle them. SCM40 up next. Cannot wait.

 

[CnoEvil]

We await your report with interest.

Make sure you listen to as many speakers as possible, as this often sends you in a direction that you don't expect.

 

[matt49]

Make sure you listen to as many speakers as possible, as this often sends you in a direction that you don't expect.

... which is exactly what happened to me. I'm appending the list of speakers I heard up to a year ago. I was in a similar position: nice new amp (Devialet 170/200), looking for speakers to do it justice. I ended up with Martin Logans, which wasn't what I was expecting at all. And then I realized the amp wasn't right for them, but that's another story ...

ATC SCM20ASLT — horribly dry, unnatural and uninvolving.

Audiovector Si3 Avantgarde Arreté — clean, dynamic, spacious sound.*

Audiovector Si3 Avantgarde — same as above, perhaps less persuasive bass.*

B&W 804D — top end too brittle; impressive but unsubtle.*

Dali Epicon 6 — dynamic, rhythmic, spacious, dramatic.*

Focal 1038be — weird: very fast and spacious but boxy.

Harbeth Monitor 30.1 — very natural.*

Harbeth Super HL5 — magical and spacious.*

KEF Reference 203/2 — correct but a bit lean with vocals.

KEF R900 — OK: warm, a bit too round.

Kudos Super 20 — nicely fast and true.

Marshall Choong FS-1 — fast and very vivid, but a bit boxy.*

Marshall Choong CM-3 — brilliant imaging, but a bit closed in.*

Neat Ultimatum XLS — big sound, not refined.

Paradigm Signature S6 — lovely bottom end, but scratchy and mucky treble.*

PMC GB1i — sweet and fast, but a small sound.

PMC Fact 8 — very fast, bass a bit dislocated.*

PMC twenty.23 — exciting but treble a bit brittle.

Proac D30R — lovely golden sound, but not really accurate.*

Rega RS5 — forced, unnatural, shouty top end.

Sonus faber Cremona Auditor M — ravishingly sweet, fast and tonally true.*

Sonus faber Cremona M — less coherent than the Auditors.*

Sonus faber Olympica I — amazing precision, just a bit too bright: maybe not run in fully?.*

Sonus faber Olympica II — utterly wonderful: natural, sweet, spacious.*

Sonus faber Venere 2.5 — warm and easy to live with, but a bit dark.*

Spendor D7 — horrid; must have been something wrong with this pair.*

Vivid V1.5 — astonishingly fast and dramatic; brilliantly articulate.*

Wilson-Benesch Vertex — great imaging, but slightly sterile.*

* = tried with Devialet 170

 

[Macspur]

... which is exactly what happened to me. I'm appending the list of speakers I heard up to a year ago. I was in a similar position: nice new amp (Devialet 170/200), looking for speakers to do it justice. I ended up with Martin Logans, which wasn't what I was expecting at all. And then I realized the amp wasn't right for them, but that's another story ...

ATC SCM20ASLT — horribly dry, unnatural and uninvolving.

Audiovector Si3 Avantgarde Arreté — clean, dynamic, spacious sound.*

Audiovector Si3 Avantgarde — same as above, perhaps less persuasive bass.*

B&W 804D — top end too brittle; impressive but unsubtle.*

Dali Epicon 6 — dynamic, rhythmic, spacious, dramatic.*

Focal 1038be — weird: very fast and spacious but boxy.

Harbeth Monitor 30.1 — very natural.*

Harbeth Super HL5 — magical and spacious.*

KEF Reference 203/2 — correct but a bit lean with vocals.

KEF R900 — OK: warm, a bit too round.

Kudos Super 20 — nicely fast and true.

Marshall Choong FS-1 — fast and very vivid, but a bit boxy.*

Marshall Choong CM-3 — brilliant imaging, but a bit closed in.*

Neat Ultimatum XLS — big sound, not refined.

Paradigm Signature S6 — lovely bottom end, but scratchy and mucky treble.*

PMC GB1i — sweet and fast, but a small sound.

PMC Fact 8 — very fast, bass a bit dislocated.*

PMC twenty.23 — exciting but treble a bit brittle.

Proac D30R — lovely golden sound, but not really accurate.*

Rega RS5 — forced, unnatural, shouty top end.

Sonus faber Cremona Auditor M — ravishingly sweet, fast and tonally true.*

Sonus faber Cremona M — less coherent than the Auditors.*

Sonus faber Olympica I — amazing precision, just a bit too bright: maybe not run in fully?.*

Sonus faber Olympica II — utterly wonderful: natural, sweet, spacious.*

Sonus faber Venere 2.5 — warm and easy to live with, but a bit dark.*

Spendor D7 — horrid; must have been something wrong with this pair.*

Vivid V1.5 — astonishingly fast and dramatic; brilliantly articulate.*

Wilson-Benesch Vertex — great imaging, but slightly sterile.*

* = tried with Devialet 170

Crikey Matt, didn't realise you listened to quite so many speakers!

I do hope to listen to some Sonus Faber's and SHL5+ sooner rather than later, oh and not forgetting IQ.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[SteveR750]

So how come you didn't buy the harbeths?

I take your point, but I'm starting from the D18 is bloody good. It has to be better from that reference, not an absolute. I can't listen to half that list, and if I could I don't have the patience! The ATC's are key. If I hate them then I know where to go, otherwise it's a search over.

 

[matt49]

Crikey Matt, didn't realise you listened to quite so many speakers!

I do hope to listen to some Sonus Faber's and SHL5+ sooner rather than later, oh and not forgetting IQ.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

I may have missed a couple off the list, Mac. Anyway, it was great fun.

If something on the second hand market really grabs my attention, I might replace the Cremonas. I do like them very much, and they sound far bigger than they have any right to. But there's an itch I need to scratch: some really big speakers with 15" woofers, driven by the Devialet.

So how come you didn't buy the harbeths?

I preferred what the Sf Cremona Auditor Ms do. I was fortunate enough to demo both speakers side by side (along with the Harbeth M30.1s). And then I found a pair of ex-demo Cremonas for the same price as the SHL5s new.

I'd be interested to hear the new SHL5+ though. Apparently the changes to the crossover have altered its balance quite a bit and given it more attack.

 

[Helmut80]

If you were willing to settle for 12" woofers you could always give the Magico Q7 a go

 

[CnoEvil]

Steve, In case it's of any interest, I came across this review where a Hegel power amp was used to power some Ref 1s:

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/807-kef-reference-1-loudspeakers

 

[SteveR750]

Thanks Cno, I'd looked at the Ref 3s but they outside of my budget. I'd miss the bass below 40Hz for sure.

 

[Matt77]

Hi there Steve R750 . Great choice with the Hegel . I recently purchased the H160 . Awsome Amp . I've got the ATC SCM 11's hooked up to it . Great combo. They have amazing Bass /control /midrange etc . so the 40's will be on another level . Your in for a treat lol

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Matt77

Indeed, awesome amp and speakers

and yes SCM40's are another level altoghter. I am listening to H160/curved SCM40's as i write this and this combination is sounding sublime

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Barnaby]

My Hegel arrived yesterday. I'm sitting listening to it now ( through headphones - it's 4.20am !) but so far, I love it. I have it on trial to replace my Supernait (mk 1) and so far seems to suit me much better. What a great amp. Not sure if it will change much in the next fre days. I noticed a steep improvement as it warmed up but I doubt it will need much more running in

 

[SteveR750]

My Hegel arrived yesterday. I'm sitting listening to it now ( through headphones - it's 4.20am !) but so far, I love it. I have it on trial to replace my Supernait (mk 1) and so far seems to suit me much better. What a great amp. Not sure if it will change much in the next fre days. I noticed a steep improvement as it warmed up but I doubt it will need much more running in

Barnaby, the headphone amp is excellent isn't it! I'd be interested to hear your comparison to the supernait, having listened to the supernait 2 which is very impressive, though I suspect an improvemnt over the original. I'd still have the Hegel over the supernait, it's just so clean sounding.

 

[Romulus]

My Hegel arrived yesterday. I'm sitting listening to it now ( through headphones - it's 4.20am !) but so far, I love it. I have it on trial to replace my Supernait (mk 1) and so far seems to suit me much better. What a great amp. Not sure if it will change much in the next fre days. I noticed a steep improvement as it warmed up but I doubt it will need much more running in

Barnaby, the headphone amp is excellent isn't it! I'd be interested to hear your comparison to the supernait, having listened to the supernait 2 which is very impressive, though I suspect an improvemnt over the original. I'd still have the Hegel over the supernait, it's just so clean sounding.

Steve R750 congratulations on you acquiring the Hegel H160 Amplifier. I am very interested in the Hegel H160 and the Naim Supernait 2. I have auditioned the Naim Supernait 2 (via Cd) and liked it. To audition the Hegel H160 I will have to travel a long way. You have heard both amps and could you share your opinion as to how they differ to sound quality in relation to most genres of music? Your thoughts would be most interesting.

 

[SteveR750]

hi Romulus, not an easy call, simply because I have not heard the PMCs being driven by the Hegel, but I can make this judgement that the Hegel + D18 is a much more attractive combination than the Naim + Twenty 24. Given that Hegel is only a couple of hundred ££ over a new Caspian M2, and the two are incomparable. The difference between the Hegel with the D18s is greater than the improvment between a NADC352 and the Caspian M2. I cannot wait to pair them up with the ATCs, as there is so much detail but with great bass control.

Based on what I have heard in the last couple of weeks I'd still go for the Hegel, because I think it's got a more controlled bass and is more dynamic. It's almost twice as powerful, into both 8 and 4 ohms so it's got the current if you need it.

 

[SteveR750]

hi Romulus, not an easy call, simply because I have not heard the PMCs being driven by the Hegel, but I can make this judgement that the Hegel + D18 is a much more attractive combination than the Naim + Twenty 24. Given that Hegel is only a couple of hundred ££ over a new Caspian M2, and the two are incomparable. The difference between the Hegel with the D18s is greater than the improvment between a NADC352 and the Caspian M2. I cannot wait to pair them up with the ATCs, as there is so much detail but with great bass control.

Based on what I have heard in the last couple of weeks I'd still go for the Hegel, because I think it's got a more controlled bass and is more dynamic. It's almost twice as powerful, into both 8 and 4 ohms so it's got the current if you need it.

Icing on the cake is the extremely good headphone amp and built in DAC. Both are good enough not to warrant buying the extra boxes, particularly the headphone amp.

Edit: I'm listeining to the same tracks I played over and over again on Saturday with the PMCs and Naim. Only with the 26s and changing to the more expensive Naim CDP (lord knows the model name, but its the circa £4k one, much better than the cheaper one we started off with) could I really hear the switch from playing the brushes on the snare to the ride cymbal and back again on Madeleine Peyroux's Don't Wait Too Long. it's just as clear with the D18s as I listen to it now, but the imaging is even more solid than the Naim + PMC. To balance it though, the D18s have a somewhat strident top end, and the crash cymbals in ACDC's Shoot To Thrill are a bit of a sibilant mess in comparison with the PMCs, through which they really did crash out beautifully. If the ATC option doesn't work then I shall be taking the Hegel with me into the demo room with the PMCs, then we'll know.

 

[Romulus]

hi Romulus, not an easy call, simply because I have not heard the PMCs being driven by the Hegel, but I can make this judgement that the Hegel + D18 is a much more attractive combination than the Naim + Twenty 24. Given that Hegel is only a couple of hundred ££ over a new Caspian M2, and the two are incomparable. The difference between the Hegel with the D18s is greater than the improvment between a NADC352 and the Caspian M2. I cannot wait to pair them up with the ATCs, as there is so much detail but with great bass control.

Based on what I have heard in the last couple of weeks I'd still go for the Hegel, because I think it's got a more controlled bass and is more dynamic. It's almost twice as powerful, into both 8 and 4 ohms so it's got the current if you need it.

Icing on the cake is the extremely good headphone amp and built in DAC. Both are good enough not to warrant buying the extra boxes, particularly the headphone amp.

Edit: I'm listeining to the same tracks I played over and over again on Saturday with the PMCs and Naim. Only with the 26s and changing to the more expensive Naim CDP (lord knows the model name, but its the circa £4k one, much better than the cheaper one we started off with) could I really hear the switch from playing the brushes on the snare to the ride cymbal and back again on Madeleine Peyroux's Don't Wait Too Long. it's just as clear with the D18s as I listen to it now, but the imaging is even more solid than the Naim + PMC. To balance it though, the D18s have a somewhat strident top end, and the crash cymbals in ACDC's Shoot To Thrill are a bit of a sibilant mess in comparison with the PMCs, through which they really did crash out beautifully. If the ATC option doesn't work then I shall be taking the Hegel with me into the demo room with the PMCs, then we'll know.

Many thanks for your reply. I take it that playing via the Hegel H160 you did not miss the 'PRAT' (pace rhythm and timing) that Naim Audio is famous for?

 

[Romulus]

hi Romulus, not an easy call, simply because I have not heard the PMCs being driven by the Hegel, but I can make this judgement that the Hegel + D18 is a much more attractive combination than the Naim + Twenty 24. Given that Hegel is only a couple of hundred ££ over a new Caspian M2, and the two are incomparable. The difference between the Hegel with the D18s is greater than the improvment between a NADC352 and the Caspian M2. I cannot wait to pair them up with the ATCs, as there is so much detail but with great bass control.

Based on what I have heard in the last couple of weeks I'd still go for the Hegel, because I think it's got a more controlled bass and is more dynamic. It's almost twice as powerful, into both 8 and 4 ohms so it's got the current if you need it.

Icing on the cake is the extremely good headphone amp and built in DAC. Both are good enough not to warrant buying the extra boxes, particularly the headphone amp.

Edit: I'm listeining to the same tracks I played over and over again on Saturday with the PMCs and Naim. Only with the 26s and changing to the more expensive Naim CDP (lord knows the model name, but its the circa £4k one, much better than the cheaper one we started off with) could I really hear the switch from playing the brushes on the snare to the ride cymbal and back again on Madeleine Peyroux's Don't Wait Too Long. it's just as clear with the D18s as I listen to it now, but the imaging is even more solid than the Naim + PMC. To balance it though, the D18s have a somewhat strident top end, and the crash cymbals in ACDC's Shoot To Thrill are a bit of a sibilant mess in comparison with the PMCs, through which they really did crash out beautifully. If the ATC option doesn't work then I shall be taking the Hegel with me into the demo room with the PMCs, then we'll know.

Many thanks for your reply. I take it that playing via the Hegel H160 you did not miss the 'PRAT' (pace rhythm and timing) that Naim Audio is famous for?

 

[SteveR750]

No. I think good kit makes all aspects of the music; tonality, timing etc.

Here is a hi fi+ review, make what you will of it, but I really do think it's a league above the supernait.

And this if you can put up with the comedy google translation.