Speaker cable

[Gerrardasnails]

There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

From what I've learnt from Joel's posts in the past, he knows that if he buys cables on eBay, he will be able to sell on at least the same price. An easy way to upgrade is sell a 5m pair of £25 pm cable and buy a 2.5m pair of £40pm.

I get it Joel!

 

[Bodfish]

Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

x10!!

 

[aliEnRIK]

Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

From what I've learnt from Joel's posts in the past, he knows that if he buys cables on eBay, he will be able to sell on at least the same price. An easy way to upgrade is sell a 5m pair of £25 pm cable and buy a 2.5m pair of £40pm.

I get it Joel!

Which 'school boys' are you referring to Gerrard?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

aliEnRIK:
Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

From what I've learnt from Joel's posts in the past, he knows that if he buys cables on eBay, he will be able to sell on at least the same price. An easy way to upgrade is sell a 5m pair of £25 pm cable and buy a 2.5m pair of £40pm.

I get it Joel!

Which 'school boys' are you referring to Gerrard?

Not you Rik.

 

[chebby]

The manufacturers/designers of the following recommend multi-stranded, OFC, copper cable ...

ATC, Harbeth, Monitor Audio, PMC

...not only do they recommend such 'humble' cable - like Van Damme for instance - some of them actually use it in their professional installations (PMC, ATC).

Monitor Audio market their own 'Pureflow' cable that costs about £5 - £6 a metre.

The ATC user guide (I read my friend's copy) just refer to 79 strand OFC copper cable without mentioning a manufacturer.

Alan Shaw of Harbeth actually states his belief that 'fancy' cables are a waste of money.

Rega (in their RS speaker manuals) discourage the use of expensive speakers cables that "claim to use special materials and technologies"

Our own Rick from Musicraft - whose clients include people using £10,000+ Chord/ATC/Naim systems - recommends £7 Masterplug surge protectors from Wilkinsons and an 'anonymous' £3.50 a metre multi-strand copper speaker cable.

He is a dealer. He could easily recommend something costing hundreds of pounds a metre and his customers would not bat an eyelid.

Hopefully I am not the schoolboy Gerrard referred to. (I merely suggested Joel use the cables he already has and that he likes.)

Hopefully the manufacturers, designers (and dealer) I referenced are not 'schoolboys' for daring to suggest competent but inexpensive cables.

I felt silly enough buying 7 metres of Naim cable at £15 a metre but decided to 'play it safe' and go by the book. Given a different system I would probably just opt for a well made multii-strand OFC copper cable of a suitable thickness.

There are at least as many speaker manufacturers and dealers (and users) who will opt for and recommend more 'exotic' cable and they will have their own rationale for why this is better. I doubt though that any will be saying their choice was because users of more humble cable are 'jealous schoolboys' though!

 

[the record spot]

Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

But you slip into the fundamental error here of comparing apples and oranges. I was going to use a similar analogy and it's brilliant you did it for me.

The purpose of the vehicle is to get you from A to B. The other elements, such as the quality of the car, the build, the purpose of the vehicle (a Ferrari being a high end car, the Corsa a general purpose/small family car)...none of this alters the fact that everything you've mentioned is tied in some way to an emotional reaction. Funnier still, the Corsa is the car of choice of the two for urban driving...

Even bigger chuckles over "schoolboy jealousy". You mean I'm dead jealous over Joel and other buyers like him who cough up £195 for a 2.5m cable from Russ Andrews website and I don't...? That's jealousy? I call it good fiscal sense myself. Seriously, if you think it makes a difference to you, your gear or your life, fill your boots. Whatever school of thought you buy into is your call.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

chebby:
The manufacturers/designers of the following recommend multi-stranded, OFC, copper cable ...

ATC, Harbeth, Monitor Audio, PMC

...not only do they recommend such 'humble' cable - like Van Damme for instance - some of them actually use it in their professional installations (PMC, ATC).

Monitor Audio market their own 'Pureflow' cable that costs about £5 - £6 a metre.

The ATC user guide (I read my friend's copy) just refer to 79 strand OFC copper cable without mentioning a manufacturer.

Alan Shaw of Harbeth actually states his belief that 'fancy' cables are a waste of money.

Rega (in their RS speaker manuals) discourage the use of expensive speakers cables that "claim to use special materials and technologies"

Our own Rick from Musicraft - whose clients include people using £10,000+ Chord/ATC/Naim systems - recommends £7 Masterplug surge protectors from Wilkinsons and an 'anonymous' £3.50 a metre multi-strand copper speaker cable.

He is a dealer. He could easily recommend something costing hundreds of pounds a metre and his customers would not bat an eyelid.

Hopefully I am not the schoolboy Gerrard referred to. (I merely suggested Joel use the cables he already has and that he likes.)

Hopefully the manufacturers, designers (and dealer) I referenced are not 'schoolboys' for daring to suggest competent but inexpensive cables.

I felt silly enough buying 7 metres of Naim cable at £15 a metre but decided to 'play it safe' and go by the book. Given a different system I would probably just opt for a well made multii-strand OFC copper cable of a suitable thickness.

There are at least as many speaker manufacturers and dealers (and users) who will opt for and recommend more 'exotic' cable and they will have their own rationale for why this is better. I doubt though that any will be saying their choice was because users of more humble cable are 'jealous schoolboys' though!

No Chebby, you were not one if the schoolboys I was referring to.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

the record spot:Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!

But you slip into the fundamental error here of comparing apples and oranges. I was going to use a similar analogy and it's brilliant you did it for me.

The purpose of the vehicle is to get you from A to B. The other elements, such as the quality of the car, the build, the purpose of the vehicle (a Ferrari being a high end car, the Corsa a general purpose/small family car)...none of this alters the fact that everything you've mentioned is tied in some way to an emotional reaction. Funnier still, the Corsa is the car of choice of the two for urban driving...

Even bigger chuckles over "schoolboy jealousy". You mean I'm dead jealous over Joel and other buyers like him who cough up £195 for a 2.5m cable from Russ Andrews website and I don't...? That's jealousy? I call it good fiscal sense myself. Seriously, if you think it makes a difference to you, your gear or your life, fill your boots. Whatever school of thought you buy into is your call.

I've not mentioned you RS but your reaction there shows that you know that you are jealous. It must be a battle struggling through life trying to convince yourself that really old amps beat any new one and that a big, thick cable sounds the same as any "exotic" one.

You talk of being wise with money; cutting a cable and making new terminations rather than what Joel is going to do is not wise.

 

[Anonymous]

just been reading this trying to spot the "alledged" schoolboy , its not rik , its not trs , its not chebby , i cant see anything that anyone has said that would make them seem like a jealous schoolboy to be honest gerrald

 

[ESP2009]

Now, now, folks play nice!

 

[JoelSim]

the record spot:Gerrardasnails:There is so much school boy jealousy on this forum. When someone has a very good system and has clearly stated in the past that he is a cable believer, why ridicule and propose cheap, bog standard alternatives. If you saw a Ferrari driver, you wouldn't say to him, go and check out the new Corsa it's excellent value for money and drives as fast as the Ferrari in a 30 mph zone!!
But you slip into the fundamental error here of comparing apples and oranges. I was going to use a similar analogy and it's brilliant you did it for me.

The purpose of the vehicle is to get you from A to B. The other elements, such as the quality of the car, the build, the purpose of the vehicle (a Ferrari being a high end car, the Corsa a general purpose/small family car)...none of this alters the fact that everything you've mentioned is tied in some way to an emotional reaction. Funnier still, the Corsa is the car of choice of the two for urban driving...

Even bigger chuckles over "schoolboy jealousy". You mean I'm dead jealous over Joel and other buyers like him who cough up £195 for a 2.5m cable from Russ Andrews website and I don't...? That's jealousy? I call it good fiscal sense myself. Seriously, if you think it makes a difference to you, your gear or your life, fill your boots. Whatever school of thought you buy into is your call.

I won't be buying a cable from the shop. As Gerrard said, I will lose more money cutting and reterminating my cables, or buying new, cheap cables which have no sell-on value than I will buying a second hand pair somewhere.

Blimey.

 

[ESP2009]

As a matter of interest(?) I had, until recently, approx 10m/run of Exposure speaker cable, purchased back in the '80s or '90s. Having tried it on my Marantz > Spendor set-up, I decided it was surplus to requirements. I cut it into roughly 3m lengths and tidied up (though didn't terminate) and sold it on Fleabay. It fetched a quite satisfactory sum in three sales.

So, what's wrong with trimming off the excess, re-terminating, and then selling on what is no longer required? If it is decent cable, it is likely to fetch a fair price. Why bother buying new cable unless you want to try something new and different? Or have I missed the point?

 

[ESP2009]

Strange how the most innocuous posts can start a 'free and frank exchange of views' eh?

 

[Anonymous]

joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

 

[ESP2009]

maxflinn:

joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

Well said, Max. Nice to have you back spreading good will among us.

 

[JoelSim]

As I am moving, I'm looking for shorter cable lengths. When you play with/reterminate pricier cables, they fetch less money when you sell them. Factory terminated is what people want.

 

[the record spot]

JoelSim:I won't be buying a cable from the shop. As Gerrard said, I will lose more money cutting and reterminating my cables, or buying new, cheap cables which have no sell-on value than I will buying a second hand pair somewhere.
Blimey.

Joel, as I said, whatever school of thought you buy into is your call; no need to justify to me how or what you spend your money on. Enjoy them.

 

[ESP2009]

JoelSim:

As I am moving, I'm looking for shorter cable lengths. When you play with/reterminate pricier cables, they fetch less money when you sell them. Factory terminated is what people want.

Fair point. Not something I need to worry over!

Though one of these days I realy must listen to a high quality set-up with matching cables (and then maybe some less pricey equivalents).

 

[the record spot]

Gerrardasnails:
I've not mentioned you RS but your reaction there shows that you know that you are jealous. It must be a battle struggling through life trying to convince yourself that really old amps beat any new one and that a big, thick cable sounds the same as any "exotic" one.

You talk of being wise with money; cutting a cable and making new terminations rather than what Joel is going to do is not wise.

Sentence 1: It will do if that's what you want it to mean.
Sentence 2: Not at all, and if you're going to paraphrase my previous posts, try to manage it with some level of accuracy eh?
Sentence 3: You reference two different things. My "fiscal sense" point is pre-dependent on whether you believe the cable theories out there. If you do, it's a decision on spend, if you don't, it's money best spent elsewhere. No beating up, no big decision, and your post was really just a big wind-up I think...happy to clarify some of it for you, the rest is just baiting and not worth the bother.

 

[Anonymous]

ESP2009:maxflinn:

joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

Well said, Max. Nice to have you back spreading good will among us.

me spreading good will , andrew hailing the word of the lord , and all the recent talk of miracle cables

is this forum the subject of divine intervention

..

 

[JoelSim]

maxflinn:ESP2009:maxflinn:
joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

Well said, Max. Nice to have you back spreading good will among us.

me spreading good will , andrew hailing the word of the lord , and all the recent talk of miracle cables

is this forum the subject of divine intervention

..

Not in my book. My belief in cables is far stronger than my belief in a higher being

 

[ESP2009]

maxflinn:ESP2009:maxflinn:

joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

Well said, Max. Nice to have you back spreading good will among us.

me spreading good will , andrew hailing the word of the lord , and all the recent talk of miracle cables

is this forum the subject of divine intervention

..

It is whatever we make it. However, please don't post crucifix images without due warning - there are some among us who might find such things rather, er, uncomfortable when they come online...after dark.

 

[Anonymous]

actually that photo is very chebbyesque

 

[Gerrardasnails]

maxflinn:just been reading this trying to spot the "alledged" schoolboy , its not rik , its not trs , its not chebby , i cant see anything that anyone has said that would make them seem like a jealous schoolboy to be honest gerrald

I never said TRS wasn't one! Of course he is. Sonofason and Frank Barlow complete the trio!

 

[Anonymous]

ESP2009:maxflinn:ESP2009:maxflinn:

joels system is worth several thousand pounds , i reckon he just wants to try out some high end cable with it , dont see anything wrong with that myself..

edit .. not directing this at anyone .. just saying

Well said, Max. Nice to have you back spreading good will among us.

me spreading good will , andrew hailing the word of the lord , and all the recent talk of miracle cables

is this forum the subject of divine intervention

..

It is whatever we make it. However, please don't post crucifix images without due warning - there are some among us who might find such things rather, er, uncomfortable when they come online...after dark.