The theory goes along the lines of inductance, capacitance, and resistance (I think). Different specs yield different results. What does it matter...buy one if the demo makes a difference to you. If not, you saved some money for 80 or so packets of hob nobs...
I'm doing a comparison between the Nordost Blue Heaven and Chord Chameleon now. The Nordost is very different in sound, even to the point that my lodger has commented on the sound and he's not even really listening! All good fun...
[quote user="fr0g"]
I had a problem recently testing the Beresford DAC. As the output from the DAC was about 1 decibel less than from the CD player...[/quote]
The Beresford is much quieter than my CDP too.
I do believe though that interconnects can make a big difference. But its all in degrees of having a warm-getting-warmer to the extreme of fuzzy sound, and clear to the point of a bright sound... (somewhere in between I think would suit most people).
I would recommend to anyone to buy ten £10 interconnects second hand non-branded, off Ebay or whatever, and test them, rather than spend £100 on one interconnect. There are plenty of very good interconnects for around a tenner which I think are on a par with much more expensive items.
I had a problem recently testing the Beresford DAC. As the output from the DAC was about 1 decibel less than from the CD player...[/quote]
The Beresford is much quieter than my CDP too.
I do believe though that interconnects can make a big difference. But its all in degrees of having a warm-getting-warmer to the extreme of fuzzy sound, and clear to the point of a bright sound... (somewhere in between I think would suit most people).
I would recommend to anyone to buy ten £10 interconnects second hand non-branded, off Ebay or whatever, and test them, rather than spend £100 on one interconnect. There are plenty of very good interconnects for around a tenner which I think are on a par with much more expensive items.
Drummerdave
Well-known member
The cable lie is the biggest, most cynical, most intelligence-insulting, and above all, most fraudulently profitable lie in audio. The lie is that high-priced speaker cables and interconnects sound better than standard run-of-the-mill ones. It is a lie that has been exposed, shamed and refuted over and over again by every genuine authority under the sun, but audiophiles hate authority and the innocents can't distinguish it from self serving charlatanry.
The simple truth is that resistance, inductance and capacitance (R, L & C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies. The signal has no idea if it is being transmitted through cheap or expensive RLC. Yes you have to pay more than rock bottom to avoid reliability problems, 2.5mm2 multi stranded copper speaker cable and good quality phono-to-phono screened coaxial cable will suffice. In fact, in terms of basic electrical performance a nice pair of straightened-out wire coat hangers with the ends scraped is not a whit inferior to a £1000 "high end" cable.
The issue of cable burn-in is even more ludicrous, the cable will sound different after 50 hours because your ears have got used to a different sound, whether good or bad, not because of any change in the cable.
Ultra high priced cables are the biggest scam in consumer electronics the sooner this absurd emphasis on cables and the results they might achieve is stopped the better.
The simple truth is that resistance, inductance and capacitance (R, L & C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies. The signal has no idea if it is being transmitted through cheap or expensive RLC. Yes you have to pay more than rock bottom to avoid reliability problems, 2.5mm2 multi stranded copper speaker cable and good quality phono-to-phono screened coaxial cable will suffice. In fact, in terms of basic electrical performance a nice pair of straightened-out wire coat hangers with the ends scraped is not a whit inferior to a £1000 "high end" cable.
The issue of cable burn-in is even more ludicrous, the cable will sound different after 50 hours because your ears have got used to a different sound, whether good or bad, not because of any change in the cable.
Ultra high priced cables are the biggest scam in consumer electronics the sooner this absurd emphasis on cables and the results they might achieve is stopped the better.
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="Drummerdave"]It is a lie that has been exposed, shamed and refuted over and over again by every genuine authority under the sun[/quote]
I would be delighted to look at these refutals - can you point me to your citations please? I'm a mathematician, I love proofs.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]But audiophiles hate authority[/quote]
No, I quite like it. But that's another story, another forum.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]charlatanry[/quote]
Nice word, can I use it in a meeting later?
I would be delighted to look at these refutals - can you point me to your citations please? I'm a mathematician, I love proofs.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]But audiophiles hate authority[/quote]
No, I quite like it. But that's another story, another forum.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]charlatanry[/quote]
Nice word, can I use it in a meeting later?
Drummerdave, I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. I have half a dozen interconnects lying around and they all make a difference to the quality of sound on my Roksan Kandy set up. In fact I have, over the years, tested what is supposed to be high end cable as well as lesser known items. I bought four different interconnects (when bored one evening) off an established Ebay manufacturer/seller, who claimed various things about them. They're obviously the same cable spec but wrapped in different coloured sheaths, and given fancy names and with different quality plugs (plastic, steel, aluminium and some other type of metal I can't distinguish). But these cables do make a difference in the sound quality - don't ask me how, they just do. And in fact I my Roksan is hooked up by one of them which replaced my Chord Chameleon Silver (I was sucked into that one!!!!). I think the well known manufacturers might have adopted a similar ploy by giving things a fancy name and dressing mutton up as lamb...
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="simonkee"]I think the well known manufacturers might have adopted a similar ploy by giving
things a fancy name and dressing mutton up as lamb...[/quote]
Agreed. Customer, pointing at expensive interconnect - "what's in the box?". Dealer - "margin."
But that's a different argument from "interconnects don't matter".
things a fancy name and dressing mutton up as lamb...[/quote]
Agreed. Customer, pointing at expensive interconnect - "what's in the box?". Dealer - "margin."
But that's a different argument from "interconnects don't matter".
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Mine are wooden. How does that work?[/quote]
Ooooh get you. You'll be saying you use draw-liners next
Ooooh get you. You'll be saying you use draw-liners next
John Duncan
Well-known member
Drummerdave
Well-known member
John Duncan
Well-known member
If you can find me a UK stockist (ie one that doesn't require buyers to pay $28 postage) you're on.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]most intelligence-insulting,[/quote]
Not quite as insulting as downgrading someone audio expeience to the "over used" placebo effect.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]It is a lie that has been exposed [/quote]
I would be interested in reading the scientific paper which conclusively proves this "lie"
[quote user="Drummerdave"]The simple truth is that resistance, inductance and capacitance (R, L & C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies.[/quote]
Is it? Again we need that proof - Comon Drummerdave this should be easy for you to provide? after all there must be so much out there by all these "genuine" authorities having proved it time and time again.
Out of interest what is your qualification?
Not quite as insulting as downgrading someone audio expeience to the "over used" placebo effect.
[quote user="Drummerdave"]It is a lie that has been exposed [/quote]
I would be interested in reading the scientific paper which conclusively proves this "lie"
[quote user="Drummerdave"]The simple truth is that resistance, inductance and capacitance (R, L & C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies.[/quote]
Is it? Again we need that proof - Comon Drummerdave this should be easy for you to provide? after all there must be so much out there by all these "genuine" authorities having proved it time and time again.
Out of interest what is your qualification?
Just to add my twopence-worth to this debate, my rather humble system has definitely benefited from upgrading the cables. I changed the bog-standard freebie interconnects and Gale bi-wire speaker cable to Chord Carnival Silver & Chord Cobra 3 and noticed a stark improvement in all areas; agility, presence and timing all improved and added a much-needed sense of drama to recordings.
Whether or not the very expensive brands make a significant difference I can't say: I'm currently too poor to afford high-end kit (hopefully the five years of Uni will pay off, hehe!!).
Word to yo mamma.
Whether or not the very expensive brands make a significant difference I can't say: I'm currently too poor to afford high-end kit (hopefully the five years of Uni will pay off, hehe!!).
Word to yo mamma.
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="Drummerdave"]The issue of cable burn-in is even more ludicrous, the cable will sound different after 50 hours because your ears have got used to a different sound, whether good or bad, not because of any change in the cable[/quote]
Not according to anticables
Not according to anticables
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
If you can find me a UK stockist (ie one that doesn't require buyers to pay $28 postage) you're on.
[/quote]
$28 postage.....
The mag is the best selling home entertainment magazine in UK! Are you telling me that Account department couldn't even budget for that! They are one of the most talk about cables in hifi forums (well apart from Gotham) although I thought they are not very user friendly at all!
If you can find me a UK stockist (ie one that doesn't require buyers to pay $28 postage) you're on.
[/quote]
The mag is the best selling home entertainment magazine in UK! Are you telling me that Account department couldn't even budget for that! They are one of the most talk about cables in hifi forums (well apart from Gotham) although I thought they are not very user friendly at all!
[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="igglebert"]I'm doing a comparison between the Nordost Blue Heaven and Chord Chameleon now. The Nordost is very different in sound, even to the point that my lodger has commented on the sound and he's not even really listening! All good fun...[/quote]
So are they different in impedance?
I had a problem recently testing the Beresford DAC. As the output from the DAC was about 1 decibel less than from the CD player...
It was immediately obvious, even to my deaf-lugs GF.
Are they really that different?
Did you wire one set up out of phase?
P
If a lodger has commented without serious listening, then I seriously do not believe that they were both wired correctly, or there is a problem with one set of cables.
[/quote]
I have no idea why they sound different but the BH seems to let through less volume of bass and more treble. Don't care about the science; if I can hear a difference then it's irrelevant. I've done the blind tests with a friend and the results were surprising.
Anyway, perhaps we should stop this thread now! lol Been here too many times!
So are they different in impedance?
I had a problem recently testing the Beresford DAC. As the output from the DAC was about 1 decibel less than from the CD player...
It was immediately obvious, even to my deaf-lugs GF.
Are they really that different?
Did you wire one set up out of phase?
PIf a lodger has commented without serious listening, then I seriously do not believe that they were both wired correctly, or there is a problem with one set of cables.
[/quote]
I have no idea why they sound different but the BH seems to let through less volume of bass and more treble. Don't care about the science; if I can hear a difference then it's irrelevant. I've done the blind tests with a friend and the results were surprising.
Anyway, perhaps we should stop this thread now! lol Been here too many times!
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
If you can find me a UK stockist (ie one that doesn't require buyers to pay $28 postage) you're on.
[/quote]
$28 postage.....
The mag is the best selling home entertainment magazine in UK! Are you telling me that Account department couldn't even budget for that! They are one of the most talk about cables in hifi forums (well apart from Gotham) although I thought they are not very user friendly at all!
[/quote]
Of course we could budget for that - I was worried more about the rest of you! We have a house policy of only testing products that are widely available in the UK (either online or in-store).
We also insist that kit that's only sold online is available on a free home trial basis - again, that's not the case with Anticables. Yes, they'll refund your money, but minus $10 'restocking charge', minus postage costs in both directions.
But, as I say, if there's a UK outlet, bring them on!
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
If you can find me a UK stockist (ie one that doesn't require buyers to pay $28 postage) you're on.
[/quote]
The mag is the best selling home entertainment magazine in UK! Are you telling me that Account department couldn't even budget for that! They are one of the most talk about cables in hifi forums (well apart from Gotham) although I thought they are not very user friendly at all!
[/quote]
Of course we could budget for that - I was worried more about the rest of you! We have a house policy of only testing products that are widely available in the UK (either online or in-store).
We also insist that kit that's only sold online is available on a free home trial basis - again, that's not the case with Anticables. Yes, they'll refund your money, but minus $10 'restocking charge', minus postage costs in both directions.
But, as I say, if there's a UK outlet, bring them on!
John Duncan
Well-known member
[quote user="igglebert"]Anyway, perhaps we should stop this thread now! lol Been here too many times![/quote]
Indeed. Hob ***, anyone?
Indeed. Hob ***, anyone?
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Of course we could budget for that - I was worried more about the rest of you! We have a house policy of only testing products that are widely available in the UK (either online or in-store).
[/quote]
Good job I asked then! I thought company was paying Simon Lucas too much
and yes, great reviews policy
Of course we could budget for that - I was worried more about the rest of you! We have a house policy of only testing products that are widely available in the UK (either online or in-store).
[/quote]
Good job I asked then! I thought company was paying Simon Lucas too much
and yes, great reviews policy
[quote user="JohnDuncan"][quote user="igglebert"]Anyway, perhaps we should stop this thread now! lol Been here too many times![/quote]
Indeed. Hob ***, anyone?[/quote]
...not if they've been in any of your drawers! Thank you...
Indeed. Hob ***, anyone?[/quote]
...not if they've been in any of your drawers! Thank you...
John Duncan
Well-known member
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