Sound quality: Streamer with external DAC

[David B]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, and after looking at quite a few existing posts, I couldn't find an answer to my question.

I am considering buying a new streamer, for usability issue with my existing one (such as the possibility to use Plex Amp with the Wiim).

I use a Node 2i with an external RME DAC to play exclusively a FLAC library from a local server.

I am very happy with my overall sound, and my question is: in my context, given that the digital to analogue conversion is handled by the external DAC, are there any noticeable differences, between a Wiim pro or ultra at a reasonable price, or a more pricy device such as the Eversolo DMP-A6 or the Cambridge Audio CXN (V2) which are both famous for their quality of sound, at a higher price point.

My understanding would be that the sound quality and sound stage would come purely from the DAC part of those streamers, and the streaming part being simply the digital reading of a numeric file, I would not expect noticeable difference that would justify investing 1000 euros for a Cambridge, instead of 400 for a Wiim ultra.

I am not considering any other features like screen size, inputs and outputs, app, to value one device or another, as I am well-informed on those differences already.

Does anyone have any direct experience comparing a Wiim and a Cambridge for example, using the same external DAC?

Thank you very much for reading!

 

[Kenneth Fernandes]

the streaming part being simply the digital reading of a numeric file,

>24-Bit 96KHz, AIFF audio format sounds exceptionally great too.

 

[Witterings]

Does anyone have any direct experience comparing a Wiim and a Cambridge for example, using the same external DAC?

I can't directly compare these 2 but I'm now a big believer it mainly comes down to the DAC. I have been extensively testing WiiM's vs Bluesound Nano vs a Chord Qutest DAC I've just bought for the last 5 days.

With a WiiM Pro using my Arcam SA30's DAC and a WiiM Pro Plus using it directly to analogue both sound very similar, the Nano using it's DAC is a step up from there but a WiiM into the Chord Qutest is a step up again.

The main difference is the soundstage, the WiiM both the Pro with my amp's DAC and the Pro Plus it's comparatively narrow and they have some distortion compared to the others and a slight "edge" and everything feels compressed together.
The Nano has a wider soundstage and not so much of an edge and the Chord the widest but also it seperates out every note meaning everything has greater clarity and is especially noticeable with the vocals.

In essence if you're going to continue using your RME DAC, I don't think there'll be a difference and I'd use whichever has the interface you most like.
I've the Nano on trial but beacuse I use Alexa for voice commands and Amazon Music the WiiM integrates with it much better so will take the Nano back.

The only other thing I've seen writen but haven't tried is if you use USB out from your streamer into your DAC it'll use the DAC's clock which may be better than the streamers so may possibly give some sound advantage but others argue the difference wouldn't be something the human ear can detect.

 

[David B]

I can't directly compare these 2 but I'm now a big believer it mainly comes down to the DAC. I have been extensively testing WiiM's vs Bluesound Nano vs a Chord Qutest DAC I've just bought for the last 5 days.

With a WiiM Pro using my Arcam SA30's DAC and a WiiM Pro Plus using it directly to analogue both sound very similar, the Nano using it's DAC is a step up from there but a WiiM into the Chord Qutest is a step up again.

The main difference is the soundstage, the WiiM both the Pro with my amp's DAC and the Pro Plus it's comparatively narrow and they have some distortion compared to the others and a slight "edge" and everything feels compressed together.
The Nano has a wider soundstage and not so much of an edge and the Chord the widest but also it seperates out every note meaning everything has greater clarity and is especially noticeable with the vocals.

In essence if you're going to continue using your RME DAC, I don't think there'll be a difference and I'd use whichever has the interface you most like.
I've the Nano on trial but beacuse I use Alexa for voice commands and Amazon Music the WiiM integrates with it much better so will take the Nano back.

The only other thing I've seen writen but haven't tried is if you use USB out from your streamer into your DAC it'll use the DAC's clock which may be better than the streamers so may possibly give some sound advantage but others argue the difference wouldn't be something the human ear can detect.

Great, thank you so much for sharing your experience!
For me, using the RME instead of the internal Node DAC was a huge step up, particularly in terms of wider sound stage, and clarity.
This is the main reason why I am making my previous assumptions.
Are you happy with the WiiM app too? I have to say that I am not a big fan of the Node app, even though it does the job, and a lot of people seem to say that it is the better option out there, which would be one more reason for me to look for a solution that allows me tu benefit from Plex Amp, instead of the native app.

Thanks again!

 

[Witterings]

Great, thank you so much for sharing your experience!
For me, using the RME instead of the internal Node DAC was a huge step up, particularly in terms of wider sound stage, and clarity.
This is the main reason why I am making my previous assumptions.
Are you happy with the WiiM app too? I have to say that I am not a big fan of the Node app, even though it does the job, and a lot of people seem to say that it is the better option out there, which would be one more reason for me to look for a solution that allows me tu benefit from Plex Amp, instead of the native app.

Thanks again!

Personally I'm not a fan of the BluOs or WiiM's App in comparison to using a streaming service providers App like Amazon Music or Tidal or Qobuz and being able to "cast" from your phone / tablet but I'm not playing many local files. Amazon Music App will cast to a WiiM 24/192 lossless and gapless
I do have Plex and have seen my library in there and it certainly looks better than the BluOs or WiiM's App for playing local files but i don't actually use it .... something that hardly ever gets a mention is RealPlayer which may be worth having a look at as well although I don't know what quality it casts at.

 

[Kutusov]

There is a big diference, yes, even if you are just using it as a digital transport. At least to me it does. I don't know the science behind it but it's a digital signal that in fact it's quite analogue - it's a voltage. So how it goes through a device will have an influence. Galvanic isolations, filter caps etc play a role and power supplies are particularly important with streamers. I use a Volumio Motivo as a transport and to me it sounds clearly better than a DMP-6 I got to try in my system.

Connections between streamer and DAC are also important. I2S seems to be generaly the best, then AES/EBU, then USB and optical is usually poor. Perhaps because a a good I2S connection is easier and cheaper to make than AES, and there's also the nature of IIS that sends the packets and clock info separately.

Another improvement was getting a cheap Netgear switch before the streamer. That's an upgrade you can try for 10 pounds.

I know this stuff is always controversial (what isn't in HIFI), so I'm just telling you my experience and opinion. YMMV.

 

[David B]

There is a big diference, yes, even if you are just using it as a digital transport. At least to me it does. I don't know the science behind it but it's a digital signal that in fact it's quite analogue - it's a voltage. So how it goes through a device will have an influence. Galvanic isolations, filter caps etc play a role and power supplies are particularly important with streamers. I use a Volumio Motivo as a transport and to me it sounds clearly better than a DMP-6 I got to try in my system.

Connections between streamer and DAC are also important. I2S seems to be generaly the best, then AES/EBU, then USB and optical is usually poor. Perhaps because a a good I2S connection is easier and cheaper to make than AES, and there's also the nature of IIS that sends the packets and clock info separately.

Another improvement was getting a cheap Netgear switch before the streamer. That's an upgrade you can try for 10 pounds.

I know this stuff is always controversial (what isn't in HIFI), so I'm just telling you my experience and opinion. YMMV.

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing your opinion. You are making some very interesting points, and I agree that when it comes to streamers, everything seems to be a blend of digital and analogue, and it si difficult to find where to draw the line, which is why I posted my doubts here!
I guess it will come down to testing in the end...
Thanks again