sonos sound quality

[admin_exported]

All,

For some time now I've been considering making the jump into streaming. I already have a NAS with my CDs ripped in flac. Three systems in particular interest me

1) Sonos - like the idea of being able to easily extend it into other rooms, and it seems to be keeping at the leading edge - see the recent support for Spotify as as example

2) the linn sneaky ds. I think the major drawback for me is the need for Twonky on the NAS - my NAS isn't that great and i'm pretty sure i can't install twonky on it. Getting a new nas seems daft, and pushes the price up further.

3) the cyrus streamer. If they ever finish it I have a cyrus amp, and i absolutely love the sound of the cd players. However, i have small kids and that disk loading mechanism is a disaster waiting to happen. So their streamer would be good, but not if it has the same nas/server requirements as the linn.

What worries me a little with Sonos is that all the reviews on here largely focus on how easy it is to setup and use. Although that's important to me, what i really care about is how good it sounds. I heard the sneaky when i bought my amp and i thought it sounded fantastic. They played me one of the 24bit studio master recordings, and i think it's the first time i've ever stood in a hifi shop with my mouth hanging open in disbelief.

Now i know sound quality is as subjective as it gets, and what really matters is what i think when i go listen to it, but i wanted to get the thoughts of people on this forum, many of whom have extensive streaming setups. I'm not averse to the idea of adding a dac (eg. arcams rdac) in the future if that would significantly improve the sound quality.

Current System: arcam alpha8 cd player, cyrus 8vs2 amp, B&W602.

Thanks.

 

[Dan Turner]

Hi,

I think the analogue output of a Sonos ZP90 zoneplayer would be very competetive against your current CD player, but you can improve it significantly by connecting it to a separate DAC. I'm very happy with mine. Too much time has passed and my system changed too much to be able to claim this as a direct comparison, but the last CD player I had was an Arcam CD37 and I found lossless files on my MacBook via A Cambridge DAC-Magic to better that (slightly and not in all areas, but just about, on balance). In my new system I found that the Sonos connected to the DAC in my amp betters the MacBook when playing back the same files - not hugely, but it's definitely noticeable and worthwhile.

I say go for it, the whole Sonos experience is fantastic and it's sounds great.

 

[scene]

I have ripped my CDs losslessly using iTunes (Apple Lossless). My experience is that the Sonos ZP90 connected via analogue to my AVR250 is not quite as good as playing the CD on my DV79, when connected via phono. I would say my DV79 is a pretty good CD player. When playing the same CD over coaxial from the DV79 to the AVR250, the results are pretty much the same. This doesn't surprise me as both the DV79 and AVR250 use the same Wolfson DACs.

However, when I play the the files on the Sonos through optical to the AVR250, the sound quality is getting on indistinguishable to the DV79, with the caveat that there might be a tad more bass (more listening required). I haven't tried a coaxial lead yet for this yet, as I only have one, and can't really make side-by-side comparisons.

EDIT: I can't comment on whether 24-bit sound would sound even better, as I don't have any available source files.

 

[daveh75]

scene:EDIT: I can't comment on whether 24-bit sound would sound even better, as I don't have any available source files.Didn't think that Sonos supported 24-bit audio?

 

[Dan Turner]

No, I don't think it does either, meant to mention that.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, i think you're right. I only mentioned that as a partial reason for my interest in streaming.

Thanks to all for the comments. My cd player is a bit ancient these days, so i wouldn't be surprised if newer kit sounds better (although newer isn't always better!). Obviously I'll have to trundle along to the shop and give it a listen, but the fact that people are on here and happy with the sound gives me some reassurance.

 

[scene]

daveh75:scene:EDIT: I can't comment on whether 24-bit sound would sound even better, as I don't have any available source files.Didn't think that Sonos supported 24-bit audio?

No, it can't. I was alluding to the OP, in that I haven't heard any 24 bit audio, so can't comment on it. Wasn't implying sonos did 24 bit. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Anonymous]

Sonos and external entry DAC (CA, MF, ArcamR) sounds pretty good as a source with FLACs, and 320 kps MP4s are OK. As mentioned no support for 24bit files, but most music isn't currently 24bit, and when it is I am sure Sonos will change their code to suit.

Sonos only do the one thing, whereas Linn et al have had to quite rapidly change their business model to catch up with their migrating customers. My view is that Sneaky, Naim streaming networked boxes etc are all good, but not that good so as to justify the huge price premiums over their far more-experienced competition in the digital networked music world.

I like Sonos system and would have gone for them had i not committed to Squeezebox systems (which do have added advantage of 24bit file support). The Sonos networking experience is best and it is easy to set up and manage. My view is that the hi fi manufacturers just do not have the same depth of experience in TCP/IP packet-switched ethernet networking, and this may lead to frustrations in setting up and running a home network. Home networking probably causes biggest headache to the lay man - and this applies equally in the Apple and PC world - when moving to computer audio, and probably computer-based networked video looking slightly ahead.

Sonos do very well in this area (as does Logictech) and for good reason: they are expereinced, their product is very robust and very well supported, plus their is a huge global on line community for support and FAQsfor Sonos and Logitech.

And yes some 24 bit files recordings (eg from B&W club) really are quite special on the Squeezebox.

 

[Dan Turner]

And if Sonos isn't high-end enough for you then google 'Audiocom' - they have a range of packages for upgrading internal power and clock components. Seriously considering this for mine!

 

[scene]

Dan Turner:And if Sonos isn't high-end enough for you then google 'Audiocom' - they have a range of packages for upgrading internal power and clock components. Seriously considering this for mine!
That's a pretty serious set of modifications! Just jack up the casing, and slot in new innards. Not sure if I'd be happy doing this myself... Though they do look like they'd take the Sonos to a whole new level.

 

[Anonymous]

Been doing some more reading up, and it seems like the Linn hardware *might* work without me having to install Twonky on the NAS because my NAS provides some level on DLNA support. I've mailed Linn for confirmation. That would reduce one of my objections to going the Linn route.

The Audiocom stuff is interesting, although i hate to think what you do if you screw it up...

 

[Pete Shields]

I'm really pleased with my ZP90 & Dacmagic combo playing back ripped FLAC files. Can't tell much difference between that and my Cyrus 6xp Cd player. Tend to rip any new Cd's and use the Sonos these days. Now with Spotify support, I'd recommend Sonos wholeheartedly.

 

[manicm]

By all accounts Linn DS is leagues ahead of Sonos and Squeezebox et al in terms of sound quality, assuming it's a wired solution as Linn recommends in the strongest terms. And of-course Linn DS has full 24bit/192khz file support from their cheapest Sneaky upwards.

I agree that Sonos is in wireless terms leagues ahead of anyone else - but I think its lack of higher resolution files is the caveat. I would without a doubt think that it simply would not cope as well with larger, higher resolution files.

Andrew Everard's blog on the WD homeplugs today has only confirmed for me that digital wireless solutions are still in their infancy (I don't want to compromise sound quality. no matter how minutely). And systems like Linn are too much hassle for me. Naim as well - they're not pretending anymore their streaming products perform as well wirelessly.

All of which takes me back to the humble iPod and dock to hifi. Or the Arcam Solo Neo which one can attach a USB drive too - but the Neo does not support hi-res files at all.

I'd love and save up for the Olive O3HD - if it sounds good. *nudge nudge* *wink wink* WHF.

 

[The_Lhc]

manicm:By all accounts Linn DS is leagues ahead of Sonos and Squeezebox et al in terms of sound quality,

Adding a suitably expensive DAC to Sonos or Squeezebox would solve that problem.

assuming it's a wired solution as Linn recommends in the strongest terms.

I don't think they recommend it for sound quality terms as it doesn't make any difference. It's more likely to be for bandwidth considerations when dealing with uncompressed or high bit-rate files.

I agree that Sonos is in wireless terms leagues ahead of anyone else - but I think its lack of higher resolution files is the caveat. I would without a doubt think that it simply would not cope as well with larger, higher resolution files.

Not cope as well? Sonos won't cope higher resolution files at all.

Andrew Everard's blog on the WD homeplugs today has only confirmed for me that digital wireless solutions are still in their infancy (I don't want to compromise sound quality. no matter how minutely).

It's not a sound-quality issue, it's a bandwidth/interference issue.

 

[manicm]

the_lhc:manicm:By all accounts Linn DS is leagues ahead of Sonos and Squeezebox et al in terms of sound quality, Adding a suitably expensive DAC to Sonos or Squeezebox would solve that problem. assuming it's a wired solution as Linn recommends in the strongest terms. I don't think they recommend it for sound quality terms as it doesn't make any difference. It's more likely to be for bandwidth considerations when dealing with uncompressed or high bit-rate files. I agree that Sonos is in wireless terms leagues ahead of anyone else - but I think its lack of higher resolution files is the caveat. I would without a doubt think that it simply would not cope as well with larger, higher resolution files. Not cope as well? Sonos won't cope higher resolution files at all. Andrew Everard's blog on the WD homeplugs today has only confirmed for me that digital wireless solutions are still in their infancy (I don't want to compromise sound quality. no matter how minutely). It's not a sound-quality issue, it's a bandwidth/interference issue.

1. 'Adding a suitably expensive DAC to Sonos or Squeezebox would solve that problem.' - possibly, but still no hi-res, and instead of adding a really expensive DAC for Sonos mainly, one should then seriously consider moving up the Linn DS chain like the Majik DS.

2. ' It's more likely to be for bandwidth considerations when dealing with uncompressed or high bit-rate files.' - this was my point in the first place - which was Sonos does not support hi-res possibly for wireless bandwidth issues etc.

3. 'It's not a sound-quality issue, it's a bandwidth/interference issue.' - whatever, in any event this or any other issue causes the homeplug on the same hifi power line to compromise audio quality - as Andrew admitted.

4. I find Sonos + DAC very tempting - I'm in no way belittling it - just cautioning others not to dismiss higher end streamers like Naim or Linn out of preconceptions.

 

[The_Lhc]

manicm:
the_lhc:manicm:By all accounts Linn DS is leagues ahead of Sonos and Squeezebox et al in terms of sound quality, Adding a suitably expensive DAC to Sonos or Squeezebox would solve that problem. assuming it's a wired solution as Linn recommends in the strongest terms. I don't think they recommend it for sound quality terms as it doesn't make any difference. It's more likely to be for bandwidth considerations when dealing with uncompressed or high bit-rate files. I agree that Sonos is in wireless terms leagues ahead of anyone else - but I think its lack of higher resolution files is the caveat. I would without a doubt think that it simply would not cope as well with larger, higher resolution files. Not cope as well? Sonos won't cope higher resolution files at all. Andrew Everard's blog on the WD homeplugs today has only confirmed for me that digital wireless solutions are still in their infancy (I don't want to compromise sound quality. no matter how minutely). It's not a sound-quality issue, it's a bandwidth/interference issue.

1. 'Adding a suitably expensive DAC to Sonos or Squeezebox would solve that problem.' - possibly, but still no hi-res, and instead of adding a really expensive DAC for Sonos mainly, one should then seriously consider moving up the Linn DS chain like the Majik DS.

My point was comparing the SQ of a £300 Zoneplayer with something costing 3 or more times as much is a little unfair.

3. 'It's not a sound-quality issue, it's a bandwidth/interference issue.' - whatever, in any event this or any other issue causes the homeplug on the same hifi power line to compromise audio quality - as Andrew admitted.

You don't need to use homeplugs to have a wired network though, I'm not.

4. I find Sonos + DAC very tempting - I'm in no way belittling it - just cautioning others not to dismiss higher end streamers like Naim or Linn out of preconceptions.

The only reason I'd dismiss them is cost. Oh and having to configure twonky or something for them to work.

Other than that I'd love to have a 24-bit option, as I don't have one right now.

 

[bigboss]

You can get a modded Sonos ZP90 if you're after better sound quality. Not sure how good it is though.

EDIT: Sorry, I can see that this has already been mentioned.........must learn to read the entire thread rather than jump straight to page 2!

 

[Anonymous]

Well it looks like my NAS is just too cheap and nasty to do work with the Linn DS players. So that means replacing it with something like one of the QNAP enclosures (i can retain the disks) and that means more cash One of the users on the linn forum responded that they'd tried it and it didn't work. I suppose they might be somebody who works for qnap

I think i'm just going to have go give it a listen. I agree with other comments here that it's not a fair fight to put a £300 sonos zone player up against a £1000 linn ds, so i'll try to even the fight by playing the sonos through a good quality dac. If/when i get around to it i'll post my thoughts on here. I find it frustrating that the linn can't see files on a fileshare (that's all the nas is, in the end) but such is life.

 

[brendonw]

Which NAS have you got ?

 

[manicm]

In no way was I comparing Linn to Sonos. I was just pondering the pros and cons of different solutions. I think some misread my point about an expensive DAC (600+) to Sonos (or Squeezebox) in which case one then should consider a solution like Linn.

 

[Anonymous]

@brendonw, it's an LG N2R1 or something like that. It serves it's current purpose well enough, and if i play flac files through my pc using foobar2000 it's just fine. But i don't want to have to turn the pc on every time i want to play music, so i'd like to have something that can just read the files straight from the NAS.

A QNAP enclosure will set me back another 250 or so, so it's not earth shattering but i'd prefer not to I'd rather spend the money on something else. But if the linn sounds better than sonos+decent dac, then it might be worth it.

 

[The_Lhc]

Your NAS should work with Sonos mightyredchris, as it provides CIFS/SMB shares.

Doesn't help you with the Linn obviously but...

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it certainly seems like sonos is compatible with a much wider range of hardware/config than Linn. I guess if you're forking out for one of the top-end Linn DS players then shoving on an extra couple of hundred quid for the right NAS isn't going to make much difference.

I think the Sonos+DAC is the front runner, but i'm in no particular rush to buy, and it seems like the penny has dropped with an increasing number of manufacturers out there - new DACs are popping up all over the place, and the new Audiolab CD player looks like it tried to cover both bases by having a transport and a usb input... I think i'm probably going to hang on a little while longer yet and see what happens in the run up to Christmas. And then maybe Santa will treat me

 

[manicm]

Don't forget forthcoming network players from Marantz, Yamaha and Cambridge Audio.

 

[Anonymous]

was in my very good local hifi dealer recently, and discussed my options with him (was literally passing by, so only had time for a quick chat, not a proper audition). This dealership sells linn, cyrus and sonos amongst many other brands. His quote was effectively (i forget the exact words) 'we can make sonos sound as good or better than any of the linn ds players by adding better and better dacs to the zp90'. Obviously there will be people who will debate that, and i'm not really trying to get into that argument because it's completely subjective, but i thought it was an interesting comment and worth passing on.