Should I upgrade my pioneer bdp-lx71 bluray player

[buzz_lightclick]

So if I did decide to upgrade, is the Marantz 7007 the way forward in terms of just pure picture quality? Is the daddy player?

Ellisdj would say so, Gel preferred the Oppo 103. It's probably better to demo yourself if possible.

 

[ellisdj]

I would suggest - first thing to do - get the TV calibrated!!! - that's essential and will bring more picture benefits than buying a new player or doing anything else Only then would I look to buy a new player - as I said you dont have to spend the fortune on the 7007. Had it not met my expectation it would have gone straight back - its honestly been the opposite. The Oppo's are highly regarded - so you should consider as well However my system is a bit different to most in terms of setup - sound decoding is done by the player in my setup and the picture is separated from the sound early in the chain to prevent either being affected by the other

Quick addition - if you put 2 stills up from 2 different blu ray players then it may be hard to really see the differences the better players have over the lesser good. I dont know I have not tried it.

Its when the film is playing that the differences to me become very clear - how well the player has a grip on things - how clear things stay and dont become blurred. You only realise they are blurred when you see how clear they actually can be.

 

[Series1boy]

Thanks all. Think I'm going to wait until the VT beds in and will get it calibrated first, then I will look at new players. Although, I'm enjoying the lx71 because my old panasonic PZ46 plasma didn't do the 71 justice. So, I suppose it's like watching a new player.

cheers

 

[ellisdj]

Series 1 boy.

My advice to you - whoever does it ask them to calibrate 1 setting to 2.2 and the other to 2.4 gamma.

I feel 2.4 gamma is where this TV's picture is best and the calibrator might not do it without a word in the ear.

all the best

 

[Series1boy]

Thanks pal will do.

 

[chalkmuppet]

Hi All

Jumping in a bit - I have a lx08 which i believe to be the same as the lx71 internally, and was thinking same thing about updating it. After reading this I am beginning to think against (unless I can find a marantz 7007 kicking around cheaply which seems unlikely).

Anyone able to opine on whether the 08 is really the 71 in a different box? Or suggest whether lx55, for example, is just as good plus having 3d (which seems not, given earlier posts)?

Thanks!

Simon

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Hi All

Jumping in a bit - I have a lx08 which i believe to be the same as the lx71 internally, and was thinking same thing about updating it. After reading this I am beginning to think against (unless I can find a marantz 7007 kicking around cheaply which seems unlikely).

Anyone able to opine on whether the 08 is really the 71 in a different box? Or suggest whether lx55, for example, is just as good plus having 3d (which seems not, given earlier posts)?

Thanks!

Simon

Yep, the LX08 is the same as the 71. The 55 has operation issues, I would recommend sticking with what you have. The Marantz 7007 has quite quick but that is the only upgrade you will get.

 

[chalkmuppet]

HI Gel

Excellent - good to have confirmation, many thanks. Can now go buy something else shiny instead

SImon

 

[ellisdj]

I had minimal to no operational issues with the LX55 - it worked ok, I dont remember any real problems, my Dad has the player now, he has not complained - but when I got the 7007 I did tests to put to bed to me that there is or is not a difference between blu ray players

I used The Hobbit and Tron.

I had the Pioneer LX55, I had the Marantz UD7007 and a cheap Sony Blu Ray Player - an early model that was £100 with a few films thrown in.

I would love to have had an LX71/08 on hand as well but didnt. I get to see an LX08 a lot and can comment on that in a bit

The Sony was decent for the money but the image and movement was poor in comparison to the 7007 and LX55 - expected though.

The image in the LX55 is good but I found the movement poor - then the image on the Marantz 7007 is just so clear and stays clear throughout.

I commented at the time - Bilbo is doddery is his movement/ the acting - it was terribly blurry on the Sony - he looked artficial as did all the characters. It was much better on the LX55 but the movement was stil blurry - on the 7007 I could clearly see his acting and all the movement perfectly - to me that benefit alone is worht the money. I had been forever watching blu rays since owning the LX71 seeing blurred movement, bad blurred movement at times.

The 7007 is the first player I have owned not to do that.

You can take Gel's word for it if you want over mine - and its argued that some players are created equal - Not All I will add.

The problem with the LX71/08 - the best image from it was on professional video mode - but the movement wasnt great. The Movement was better I found on Pioneer video mode but still a long way short of perfect. Other modes were useless PDP LCD etc. The sound was also very big and bold but unrefined - having a newer player using PQLS to a Pioneer Receiver even though leaner was much clearer and cleaner - that is what happens when you reduce jitter / noise in a digital transport - so the sound even though very good does not live up to the Marantz either which is spot on with no weaknesses I have found so far

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I had minimal to no operational issues with the LX55 - it worked ok, I dont remember any real problems, my Dad has the player now, he has not complained - but when I got the 7007 I did tests to put to bed to me that there is or is not a difference between blu ray players

I used The Hobbit and Tron.

I had the Pioneer LX55, I had the Marantz UD7007 and a cheap Sony Blu Ray Player - an early model that was £100 with a few films thrown in.

I would love to have had an LX71/08 on hand as well but didnt. I get to see an LX08 a lot and can comment on that in a bit

The Sony was decent for the money but the image and movement was poor in comparison to the 7007 and LX55 - expected though.

The image in the LX55 is good but I found the movement poor - then the image on the Marantz 7007 is just so clear and stays clear throughout.

I commented at the time - Bilbo is doddery is his movement/ the acting - it was terribly blurry on the Sony - he looked artficial as did all the characters. It was much better on the LX55 but the movement was stil blurry - on the 7007 I could clearly see his acting and all the movement perfectly - to me that benefit alone is worht the money. I had been forever watching blu rays since owning the LX71 seeing blurred movement, bad blurred movement at times.

The 7007 is the first player I have owned not to do that.

You can take Gel's word for it if you want over mine - and its argued that some players are created equal - Not All I will add.

The problem with the LX71/08 - the best image from it was on professional video mode - but the movement wasnt great. The Movement was better I found on Pioneer video mode but still a long way short of perfect. Other modes were useless PDP LCD etc. The sound was also very big and bold but unrefined - having a newer player using PQLS to a Pioneer Receiver even though leaner was much clearer and cleaner - that is what happens when you reduce jitter / noise in a digital transport - so the sound even though very good does not live up to the Marantz either which is spot on with no weaknesses I have found so far

I have found no problem with movement on the 71 at all, it is exactly the same as the Oppo 103. Pioneer 55 and Marantz 7007, I don't think all Blu-ray players are equal but these were. I too found a cheap Sony Blu-ray player wanting when I demoed that, the movement wasn't great and the picture wasn't as clear.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

HI Gel

Excellent - good to have confirmation, many thanks. Can now go buy something else shiny instead

SImon

No probs.

 

[ellisdj]

Gel you use it with IFC on Max - thats adding processing so your not seeing the true performance of the players.

Thats needs to be off to see it - I cant say that anymore times.

I also have no experience of an Oppo to compare to the Marantz but I have lived with a LX55 feeding a Calibrated LX5090. Until the 7007 I always thought it was the Plasma that had bad movement. Once I plugged the 7007 I was amazingly surpised at how good that sets movements was.

Honest truth I have no reason to make anything up

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Gel you use it with IFC on Max - thats adding processing so your not seeing the true performance of the players.

Thats needs to be off to see it - I cant say that anymore times.

I also have no experience of an Oppo to compare to the Marantz but I have lived with a LX55 feeding a Calibrated LX5090. Until the 7007 I always thought it was the Plasma that had bad movement. Once I plugged the 7007 I was amazingly surpised at how good that sets movements was.

Honest truth I have no reason to make anything up

I have owned the Pioneer 5090 and there was nothing wrong with the movement on the Pioneer 71. Are you seriously suggesting he should spend £700 because the movement is better on the Marantz? .

We are just going to have to disagree on this one.

 

[bigboss]

I think the OP should demo & decide. Personally, I found no difference as well. Even AV forums says this in all its reviews of blu ray players, & they test them on fully calibrated screens.

 

[ellisdj]

Gel you use it with IFC on Max - thats adding processing so your not seeing the true performance of the players.

Thats needs to be off to see it - I cant say that anymore times.

I also have no experience of an Oppo to compare to the Marantz but I have lived with a LX55 feeding a Calibrated LX5090. Until the 7007 I always thought it was the Plasma that had bad movement. Once I plugged the 7007 I was amazingly surpised at how good that sets movements was.

Honest truth I have no reason to make anything up

I have owned the Pioneer 5090 and there was nothing wrong with the movement on the Pioneer 71. Are you seriously suggesting he should spend £700 because the movement is better on the Marantz? .

We are just going to have to disagree on this one.

We disagree on a lot Gel - which is good thats why I should do your TV so we can have it out in the flesh

My view is - I am always in the pursuit of perfection, anything thats not perfect I notice and then try and work on it to the best of my skill, experience and budget because it bugs the hell out of me. Not saying my system is perfect but its getting to a very good point where I will hopefully stop spending money on it

I have not suggested the op spend £700 on anything - I have said several times you dont have to spend a fortune, but at the same time I have found the 7007 to be a much better player than all the previous players I have owned in the areas key to me

However factoring in the importance of movement when you consider when you watch a film its constantly moving then that it is an extremely important factor....

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Gel you use it with IFC on Max - thats adding processing so your not seeing the true performance of the players.

Thats needs to be off to see it - I cant say that anymore times.

I also have no experience of an Oppo to compare to the Marantz but I have lived with a LX55 feeding a Calibrated LX5090. Until the 7007 I always thought it was the Plasma that had bad movement. Once I plugged the 7007 I was amazingly surpised at how good that sets movements was.

Honest truth I have no reason to make anything up

I have owned the Pioneer 5090 and there was nothing wrong with the movement on the Pioneer 71. Are you seriously suggesting he should spend £700 because the movement is better on the Marantz? .

We are just going to have to disagree on this one.

We disagree on a lot Gel - which is good thats why I should do your TV so we can have it out in the flesh

My view is - I am always in the pursuit of perfection, anything thats not perfect I notice and then try and work on it to the best of my skill, experience and budget because it bugs the hell out of me. Not saying my system is perfect but its getting to a very good point where I will hopefully stop spending money on it

I have not suggested the op spend £700 on anything - I have said several times you dont have to spend a fortune, but at the same time I have found the 7007 to be a much better player than all the previous players I have owned in the areas key to me

However factoring in the importance of movement when you consider when you watch a film its constantly moving then that it is an extremely important factor....

I haven't seen anything wrong with the movement of the 71 on any of my TVs (and I have owned a few now), but if you are saying on different settings on the Marantz you can get more out of it then fair enough. I highly doubt in my view it would be worth £700 upgrade though, which is what the thread is about.

Yep, you are still top of my calibration list. . Still mulling it over.

 

[chalkmuppet]

ellisdj and gel

Thanks both for your replies and discussion, I learned a lot, but please dont come to blows on my account!!!

For your info I think I will not go to the 7007 until/if I fancy something with 3D (not for a while). I think I will try and play with the modes on the LX08 and see whether I noticed any differences (as mentioned above - I probably did this when I bought it but cannot remember).

One thing I do notice on the kuro, which I have no idea whether is from the player, the discs, AV amp or the TV (kuro 5090 ), is banding on the darker colours - not enough range in the pallet. I expect nothign to be done with this, but interested in any ideas opr thoughts?

I will likely upgrade by AV amp from a mid level Yammy to a higher level Pioneer (partly with the savings from not buying a new Blu Ray!), and take advantage of the synching

Thanks again,

Simon

 

[Deleted member 2457]

ellisdj and gel

Thanks both for your replies and discussion, I learned a lot, but please dont come to blows on my account!!!

For your info I think I will not go to the 7007 until/if I fancy something with 3D (not for a while). I think I will try and play with the modes on the LX08 and see whether I noticed any differences (as mentioned above - I probably did this when I bought it but cannot remember).

One thing I do notice on the kuro, which I have no idea whether is from the player, the discs, AV amp or the TV (kuro 5090 ), is banding on the darker colours - not enough range in the pallet. I expect nothign to be done with this, but interested in any ideas opr thoughts?

I will likely upgrade by AV amp from a mid level Yammy to a higher level Pioneer (partly with the savings from not buying a new Blu Ray!), and take advantage of the synching

Thanks again,

Simon

We are friends really.

Buying a top Pioneer amp sounds like a great idea, they are fantastic!

 

[strapped for cash]

I have to agree with EllisDJ about leaving IFC off, Gel, especially when watching 24p content.

Additional processing really isn't needed at this low frame rate; and causes more problems than it solves.

I'd add that IFC should remain off at all times, though there's perhaps some advantage to using the "Min" setting when watching 50Hz content.

For what it's worth, I sometimes notice a mild soap opera effect in broadcast content with IFC switched off, suggesting undefeatable motion interpolation is taking place.

 

[ellisdj]

just read something interesting for you Gel.

Apparently the 103 uses post processing out of its HDMI output 1 - therefore it might be best to use it from its HDMI output 2.

This has come from an interesting thread that I am involved in at the minute

 

[bigboss]

But also bear in mind that HDMI 1 employs Marvell's superior QDEO processor while HDMI 2 has a lesser processor.

 

[bigboss]

Can you link that thread here ellisdj?

 

[ellisdj]

Boss Man - if you look you will find .....

I have just taken this from it, - I didnt know that about the Oppos second hdmi output - maybe my suggestion was wrong. Really dont know the player

"I've found there can be noticeable differences (if you know what you're looking for) between different players even when display chain calibrated for the different players. At last count I'd assessed about 16 models in the £4.5k to £200 range. The difference is typically due to video manipulation to differentiate image look and/or some type of error.

One of the first players I noticed this on was the Denon 2500. It appeared to apply some type of by default luminance exaggeration to create the illusion of a sharper image in a similar may to the sharpness setting level 1 or 2 does on the QDEO Oppo's. It's also be proven by looking at the raw HDMI data output that different players can produce different data output even when using the same 1080p/24 content and output setting. Here's an example - Sony BDP-S580 3D Blu-ray Player - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

The affect of colour space and HDMI Deep Colour setting format will depend on the combination of products. Product may internally processes using a native format that all other formats are converted to. The conversion process isn't lossless and this can affect the image. Usually high frequency chroma (colour) resolution is lost.

Sometimes the difference are tiny and sometimes they are easier to observe especially on a larger image"

 

[bigboss]

Interesting! Although it does contradict AV forums review:

"As with the 3D performance, the digital nature of the content means that any Blu-ray player capable of outputting 1080p should be identical to any other player over HDMI, assuming of course the manufacturer isn't doing anything they shouldn't. We checked and thankfully Oppo have resisted the temptation to fiddle with the 1080p output and, as a result, the BDP-103 again delivered a flawless performance. We also checked there was no backdoor processing going on by comparing source direct to the 1080p output and once again everything was perfect. The BDP-103 correctly output 1080p video without any issues as demonstrated by the multiburst and zone plate patterns on our Spears & Munsil disc."

 

[ellisdj]

I think you mis-read that BB - he is not talking about the Oppo - he is talking about differences in players in general