Room correction for my setup

[newlash09]

Hi all,

I have recently seen the benefits of audyssey calibration in my small room for HT. My floorstanders don't boom any more, despite their one foot proximity to the rear wall

Now I want to replicate the same with my 2 channel setup. And I don't want to loose my chord 2 qute till I change my speakers. So how best and what to get to fit into my setup. Thanks for your time

 

[insider9]

How much time would you have for setup?

 

[newlash09]

How much time would you have for setup?

Probably till June 2018. But what ever delivers the room correction can also fit into my next setup. Iam seriously going active for some much needed peace of mind

 

[newlash09]

Again to be honest, the switch from QA concept 40's to PMC twenty 26's hasn't been as large as I thought it would be for the price. There is always the nagging doubt that it could be the amp or the cables. So I want to settle for something optimised by the manufacturer. Fondly hope you understand, though the PMC's have just been around for less than 4 months. Though iam not completely sold on the active SCM 40's as yet. Will give them a audition for sure. Will be my first proper audition ever

 

[insider9]

What I meant was how much time are you prepared to spend setting it up? There are different routes you can take.

1) A very straightforward Dirac Live in a box, which requires less time to setup but will cost more. Setup is automatic all you do it follow instructions on screen.

2) Semi-automatic where you use something like Minidsp (there are others both software and hardware solutions) but buy a licence for additional software to operate it. A tad more time consuming than Dirac similar cost but you can achieve far more. You don't need much knowledge but it helps.

3) Fully manual. Very time consuming and likely to be the cheapest route. Fully manual thought so you'll need to know what you're doing and if you don't learn.

 

[insider9]

To be honest not sure room correction is what's needed here. It sounds like you're underwhelmed with your system to some degree. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you don't like certain things about it or would prefer things to sound different. Just need to be realistic what you can get out of making specific changes.

Room correction is only meant to correct room issues, not change the sound of your entire system. It will improve certain things but only give you more of what you have.

I'd be quite happy sharing all I've read and learned about the subject. Just want to make sure you don't have too big expectations as to what can be achieved. Trust me I've been there myself

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I think we should see first if we can help Newlash out first before spending money on room correction first as it might be a easy fix

I think room correction is a good thing but can be expensive and time consuming so best see what the problem is first with the sound in the room .

 

[ellisdj]

That is the good thing with Insiders recommendation - its the learning curve of what is actually going on in the room, rather than guess work - that knowledge is priceless

It will actually save money in the long run even if potentially costing some upfront.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I am not disputing it ellisdj but Newlash has just moved house so it might be a simple fix

 

[ellisdj]

It could be he has just done something wrong if your referring to his subwoofer comments in the HC section.

If he is using Audessey its likely pushing his sub too hard and that might be why he is having some issues with that- easy test for that turn auddessey off and see if its the same

I still think the learning curve to understanding what sound you get in your room is a good thing to do so its not wasted time or money, RC systems are not a magic wand either

 

[Gaz37]

I apologise for my thickness here but what is room correction?
I was thinking of room treatment but it appears to be something totally different
Am I right in thinking it's a advanced form of an old fashioned graphic equaliser to fine tune tone to suit the room?
Or am I way off base (bass)

 

[insider9]

Yes, that's pretty much it Gaz. It's done with a use of calibrated mic so no guess work involved. Much more precise and complex but ultimately works in a similar way. But should not degrade signal at all unlike graphic EQ.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Newlash, be very careful pinning your hopes on Dirac to cure all your issues on the stereo front. Dirac is a wonderful piece of software but you may find that room treatment will also be necessary to achieve anything near what Ellis, Insider and Gazzip have achieved with Dirac... It is not a quick-fix solution! The reflections in my room made it very difficult to get any mileage out of Dirac without a big investment in my time and cash... I have neither in abundance!

At a later date I may persevere with it but for the moment I'm happy to leave it as is.

 

[ellisdj]

the issue with dirac for learning is its not designed in its current form to inform people of their room related problems.

It glosses over that bit to get to a quicker end result. Its also not user friendly to take quick measurements to see how things have changed if you move your speakers or listening position about

Thats where you need REW and REW is free. Did you keep your UMIK1?

 

[ellisdj]

the issue with dirac for learning is its not designed in its current form to inform people of their room related problems.

It glosses over that bit to get to a quicker end result. Its also not user friendly to take quick measurements to see how things have changed if you move your speakers or listening position about

Thats where you need REW and REW is free. Did you keep your UMIK1?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Yep still got it Ellis. I will take a look at REW, many thanks for the suggestion.

As for Dirac I believe your earlier comments about it not being a magic wand are correct. There are no quick fixes... only the investment of time, patience and knowledge will result in a desired end product, it is a journey of discovery, some good some bad.

 

[paulkebab]

with the general thoughts that you might be looking in the wrong place for a result. Room EQ, correction etc will remove 'nasties' and improve areas that might be lacking - to a degree. You have to remember that when you change the EQ curve in one place, regardless of how, you also change it in another. This can be frustrating, time consuming and end up driving you mad, and still no result. If your system generally sounds great but with certain frequency nodes, negative or more commonly positive, then EQ and/or room correction will work. It appears that you don't have a great sound in your room and no amount of EQ will cover that. I think you should go back to basics and figure out what isn't making you smile, and IMO the speakers are the first place to be pointing the finger - find some that work in your room and you might not even need any more kit.

 

[gasolin]

Something like this? http://lyngdorf.com/roomperfect/

http://lyngdorf.com/news-what-is-room-correction/

Review https://www.dagogo.com/lyngdorf-rp-1-roomperfect-room-correction-device-review/

 

[gasolin]

Have you though of giving the speaker much power by tri-amping them?

 

[insider9]

Something like this? http://lyngdorf.com/roomperfect/

http://lyngdorf.com/news-what-is-room-correction/

Review https://www.dagogo.com/lyngdorf-rp-1-roomperfect-room-correction-device-review/

 

I'd definitely not recommend that Behringer. Many better solutions right now and you should really only be considering something that does FIR.

Lyngdorf also seems to only mention frequency response which indicates IIR filters only and as such is what I'd call an archaic way of doing it. No different than a fancy graphic EQ.

Yes, both the above units could yield some improvement against uncorrected rooms but a small percentage of what FIR correction would offer.

I would definitely warn against spending any money on either.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

You probably told me before but I've forgotten, what do you use Insider?

 

[insider9]

I've tried Dirac Live on a trial (twice) *mosking* I've used Minidsp 2x4 HD to integrate a pair of standmounts and a sub. I've also used Minidsp OpenDRC-DA8 for DIY active conversion. Each of the above solutions had it's upsides and downsides. Dirac's ease of use was a downside for me. Each Minidsp unit was very good however every equipment change and new project meant new bit of gear. Ultimately neither of the above had enough processing power and flexibility.

Nowadays I use Roon built-in DSP, although had it off recently as I'm getting accustomed to new amp. Where Minidsp I've used offered circa 10,000 taps (filters) for all channels. And the best Mindsp units use circa 6,000 taps per channel. Roon can do a whopping 131,000 per channel *shok* Not just that but you can create separate filters for different sampling rates. All the filters have to be done manually and can be done with free tools unless you splash the cash for something like Acourate​​​​​​​ or what used to be cheaper and only $100 (now $399) FIR Designer​​​​​​​. Both linked can automate the process at a price. By saying that last time I run room correction was for up to 300Hz for frequency response and phase correction on the whole spectrum.

I will say this though all of these have had a positive impact however none as much as physical acoustic room treatment and correct speaker/listening position setup. For me room treatment and setup is a cake and DSP is a cherry on top.

 

[ellisdj]

The main difference with using REW is you can look at certain aspects of the room that you normally dont pay attention to, it forces your attention to them as it shock horrors you with its honesty.

The main one in my mind is Reverb - if you have very high reverb in the room then many of the benefits of products such as dirac, amps dacs, cables obviously are being lost because of the echo in the room - generally speaking. This results in a phasey sound without proper definition and focus in my experience

You can also see what major problems there are with bass - most likely not nearly enough in general but too much in one or 2 areas.

For high reverb there is only one cure - call the guys @ GIK simples ...

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Newlash, I think you may have a more fundamental problem with your PMC's. I've got the DB1's and you have heard what these are capable of in a reasonable system, however, your PMC's should outclass these in every conceivable area. Personally I think that you have been sold a pair of over-driven speakers, basically wrecked by the previous owner. Hence why every other system/speaker configuration you've heard has outclassed your, what should be considered, excellent system. Plus you tend to play low bitrate mp3's. Just food for thought.

When playing music how loud do have it, 70, 80, 90 dB's?

Another thing to consider with room correction is that the majority of people here who have reported excellent results all have dedicated listening rooms.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Cheers Insider and Ellis *good* Food for thought!