Room correction for my setup

[ellisdj]

I am glad you have kept the UMIK1 - thats a tool for life, dont ever sell it

 

[insider9]

Another thing to consider with room correction is that the majority of people here who have reported excellent results all have dedicated listening rooms.

Mine is actually part of the master bedroom. You could say it's a dedicated room... dedicated to the things I enjoy most *i-m_so_happy*

 

[ellisdj]

Just quickly on a benefit of dirac live or similar - if you have bass peaks the natural thing to do is bring the speakers away from the boundary to reduce the peaks.

I have mentioned this before - this s backwards thinking because its actually reducing your whole bass output, probably the lowest end the most

With room correction like Dirac Live you can put the speakers where there is best bass overall - it doesnt matter so much if there is peaks as these are managed out at the MLP.

Here is one benefit straight away to using it over not and everyone has bass peaks and nulls in their rooms its inevitable

 

[paulkebab]

if you have bass peaks the natural thing to do is bring the speakers away from the boundary to reduce the peaks.

I have mentioned this before - this s backwards thinking because its actually reducing your whole bass output, probably the lowest end the most

everyone has bass peaks and nulls in their rooms its inevitable

Absolutely.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Hi insider,

I moved house a few years back and although hifi went to a similar sized room, it has a suspended floor. My pride and joy sounded awful. I changed electronics and speakers (twice), used granite slabs, spikes/rubber feet and bass traps. My new Rubicons' extra bass sounded a bit fruity so visited Jordan Accoustics who lent me GAIA isolation feet. They didn't go back. job done, but not cheap at £398. I also found that although previously 80cms from rear wall, they sounded better at 50cms. I discovered that there was a joist on top of a load bearing wall at 50cm and the boom box effect of the cavity was eliminated. I don't know how the GAIAs perform as well as they do, but worth every penny in my room.

 

[insider9]

Hi insider,

I moved house a few years back and although hifi went to a similar sized room, it has a suspended floor. My pride and joy sounded awful. I changed electronics and speakers (twice), used granite slabs, spikes/rubber feet and bass traps. My new Rubicons' extra bass sounded a bit fruity so visited Jordan Accoustics who lent me GAIA isolation feet. They didn't go back. job done, but not cheap at £398. I also found that although previously 80cms from rear wall, they sounded better at 50cms. I discovered that there was a joist on top of a load bearing wall at 50cm and the boom box effect of the cavity was eliminated. I don't know how the GAIAs perform as well as they do, but worth every penny in my room.

Hi 🙂

Thanks, much appreciated. Isolation was something I flirted with before Christmas. I've even tried to use birch boards under speakers. And when I say tried I've taken measurements so see what impact they made and compared vs spikes and no spikes (just a bit of fun if you're a geek like me). I considered Auralex Grammas but didn't like the look and most people were advising on more expensive products. Gaia's are something I may go for. Unfortunately each of my speakers is 42kg so need Gaia II at £598 for a set. Seen a cheaper set on eBay recently but not cheap enough. I was looking at Townshend Podiums but they cost even more. With one more amp and a dac on the horizon these will have to wait however I can see myself getting a set this year. And if they make little or no difference they will be going back.

 

[ellisdj]

Gaia's in action

 

[insider9]

Gaia's in action

You evil man *biggrin*

I missed that video among many that you put out back then. They do certainly sound different. Are you using any isolation at the minute?

 

[ellisdj]

Gaia's in action

You evil man *biggrin*

I missed that video among many that you put out back then. They do certainly sound different. Are you using any isolation at the minute?

They were really impressive, I really want to try some

I did contact them to see if they would let me have some but I didnt get a reply. Please let me know if you get some - nothing but good feedback so far, not silly money either compared to stillpoints for example - that would be a good test

EDIT - you added a bit in - Isolators everywhere pretty much except under the speakers which is supposed to be the first place to do them...

Come on put an order in 🙂

 

[insider9]

Hahaha, I'm waiting for your thoughts on Qutest. You can call it "A cute test of Qutest" 😉 Then there's H190 I already committed myself to buying. These will have to wait a little, however tempted I may be.

I admit thanks to this thread I switched DSP back on and holy...... Difference is huge. I only correct sub 300Hz (frequency response) and phase for the whole spectrum. I prefer testing amps with no DSP.

 

[newlash09]

@ insider9 - I think the semi manual option sounds best for my purpose. I think that it will also be fun experimenting with the filters. Can I do this on the analogue outs from the dac. If so, which system should I buy. Thanks

@ Doug K - thanks for your valuable advise. I had similar thoughts regarding the quality of the speakers I got, till today.

I spent the whole day today shifting my entire setup into a opposite location in my dining room. In this location the speakers don't have any side wall on the right side, and the side wall on the left side has openings at a distance of 3 M. This has reduced the reflections and reverb I previously had.

After shifting the speakers 10 CMS at a time . I now have them about 60 CMS from the rear wall. And they sounded superb for the first time ever. It also helped that I played some new tracks from tidal, so maybe it is the quality of the tracks too. I also found new respect for the chord dac for first time today in the new setup.

Where in my previous setup location, both the qacoustics concept 40's and the PMC's sounded similar, probably because of the room. In the new location the PMC's have outshone the concept 40's by a huge margin for the first time 🙂

Glad I took the effort to shift every thing and optimised their location. Finally felt happy today with my setup after having it for almost 4 months.

As I sat listening, I realised that I there was nothing in the sound that I wanted changed. I was previously having the bass killing the mid range. But the new location has removed that issue too. I was considering room correction to tame that bass. But it's gone now 🙂

But I would still like to have a even frequency response and take the room out of the equation. Iam hoping it will improve the new sound that I fell in love with today 🙂

And if there was a way to delete a thread, I would gladly delete the 'atc scm40 active speakers' thread I started a few days back. I don't think I will change anything in my kit till it breaks down 🙂

Though it is still early days, and the upgraditis will most certainly come when funds become available 🙂

All my hifi friends whose setups I have heard, have been wanting to hear my system. Which I have been trying to avoid till today. But not anymore 🙂

 

[newlash09]

that I changed my speaker cables from bell wire to some supra shielded cables 🙂

 

[insider9]

So happy to hear this 🙂

First what you need is Umik-1 calibrated microphone. This will help you further optimise the setup. It may be that shifting speakers a tiny bit more or the listening position will help even more. Or perhaps some more/less toe in.

Once you've got Umik-1 you could start with a free trial of Roon and/or Dirac Live and use your laptop/desktop as a source for a while. If you'd go with Roon you can use Yamaha as an endpoint. Umik-1 directly from Hong Kong will cost you $105 postage included plus import charges (if any).

See how much difference you think it makes. It will be much easier to decide what solution is best afterwards. This way you won't spend money on something that may not suit you and gain some experience with Umik-1.

 

[newlash09]

So happy to hear this 🙂

First what you need is Umik-1 calibrated microphone. This will help you further optimise the setup. It may be that shifting speakers a tiny bit more or the listening position will help even more. Or perhaps some more/less toe in.

Once you've got Umik-1 you could start with a free trial of Roon and/or Dirac Live and use your laptop/desktop as a source for a while. If you'd go with Roon you can use Yamaha as an endpoint. Umik-1 directly from Hong Kong will cost you $105 postage included plus import charges (if any).

See how much difference you think it makes. It will be much easier to decide what solution is best afterwards. This way you won't spend money on something that may not suit you and gain some experience with Umik-1.

Thanks for your wishes. Very happy indeed. And i also realised that these speakers need a great source file to really shine. The poor quality mp3's I was listening to mostly, didn't give that dac a chance too.

Will surely start with the Umik-1 as advised, and will see how it affects the sounds.

Though I will have to wait till June to take the plunge, as I will be getting back to sea in a week. Just when I found the sound I love, it's time to leave it behind ....heart breaking 🙂

 

[ellisdj]

I only correct sub 300Hz (frequency response)

That is how I used to do it but no matter how hard I tried (within reason - got a thick piece of loft insulation slab wrapped it in cloth and went all round the ceiling, chairs walls measuring the changes, moved all exisiting treatment around where I could as qell) I always had an upper mids peak so tops of voices such as the singer from London Grammar would always be off.

I didnt even realise until I heard the album on Gazzips system with Dirac - soon as he turned Dirac off her voice went off same as on my system.

I bought Dirac straight away after that as I was confident it wouldnt ruin the above bass region, it would improve it - that is what was holding me back before - fear of it making things worse.

 

[insider9]

It's not that it isn't possible to get better results. Very possibly it is. I just gave up after weeks of trying 🙂 Each improvement had its trade off somewhere. One setting was near perfect but timbre of horns was not as good. Very personal I'm sure but couldn't live with it. In the end decided it's slightly above my current skillset to get it right 100% so left it correcting only bass and phase. No doubt I will go at it again in future. Phase/impulse correction is more important for me anyhow.

I'm glad as I really like how my speakers are voiced. And if there's one thing that Mr Levinson's products do incredibly well is the timbre particularly of horns. Not difficult to imagine given his a jazz musician himself.

 

[ellisdj]

its interesting you use horn sounds as a reference point.
in what way did they not sound right too compressed or processed or something ??

 

[ellisdj]

its interesting you use horn sounds as a reference point.
in what way did they not sound right too compressed or processed or something ??

 

[insider9]

its interesting you use horn sounds as a reference point.
in what way did they not sound right too compressed or processed or something ??

Too polite 🙂

Yes, absolutely horns are a great reference in my opinion. Difficult timbre to reproduce also can show up a lot of micro detail and can test attack. I think fundamentals were fine but harmonics not so. Some would say small details but for me unacceptable compromise 🙂

 

[ellisdj]

ears telling you something different to the what your eyes are seeing in the graphs?

 

[insider9]

You could say that. Spent weeks experimenting and reading up what frequency does what and how EQ affects each part of a mix. Couldn't get there and found myself testing more than listening to music which defeats the purpose.

In the end as opposed to trying to correct the speakers I decide to only do some room correction. With almost nearfield listening and first reflections taken care of my issues are mostly up to 500 Hz. Correcting up to 300Hz doesn't mess with most fundamental frequencies.

 

[ellisdj]

did you try dirac before your new speakers or since?

 

[insider9]

I don't think I did with these. Would be a little cheeky to do it again. In fairness last trial I had I've used it for less than a couple of hours. I know what to expect so would take me an hour to check.

 

[ellisdj]

the horns test with dirac buddy needs to be done 🙂
I need to know....

 

[insider9]

Ok, but don't expect me to do a YouTube video of it 😉 I should have just about enough time at some point on Friday. But will attempt to treat one, yet to be treated, reflection. Going through some measurements noticed that with ribbons large horizontal dispersion means I will have to take care of it.

Started looking at new REW update also now with RT60 times going all the way down to 50Hz 🙂