Replace my pc speakers for real audio solution

[thartog]

We are looking for richer sound in our living space and need your advice!

Currently I use a speakerset connected to my computer to play music, mostly play music from Spotify (premium account). Also I have some music on my Synology NAS, both mp3 and flac files. I don’t have any hifi set neither speakers.

Furthermore we have android as well as apple devices in our house and we would like to be able to play music from both devices.

Our living space, which is around 80 m2, is mostly wood all around. We don’t have big parties in the house, sometimes some gatherings for wine drinking,. But surely no dancing etc.

My preference is to work with wireless speakers because is will be rather impossible for me to nicely get rid of any wiring which I would need if I will work with wired speakers. But I am open to wired solutions.

I did a lot of research bu I got lost in the extensive amount of brands/ wireless audio etc which there is on the market right now.
For now the most appealing speaker I saw was the Naim Mu-so.

But I would like to hear some thoughts of you, my budget is around 800-1200.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[steve_1979]

A pair of AVI DM5 active speakers (£700) which have the amplifiers built in to them. These can be connected wirelessly to your computer and mobile devices using an Apple AirPort Express (£70). Unbeatable sound quality for the price - despite only costing £700 they are the best speakers that I've ever heard and will sound miles better than the Naim Muso.

It's not totally wireless as the speakers need to be plugged into the mains and into the AEX using wires but it's still a neat solution.

 

[jjbomber]

Ignore the religous cult member as avtive speakers will need cables running to them and you specifically said you didn't want that. You have already answered your own question with the Naim mu-so. I suggest you go and listen to one and most good retaillers will let you connect your Spotify account to it for a demo.

 

[Alec]

start anything, bomber, so, if you do so, you obviously really, really want to.

Anyway, did you miss the bit where the OP said he was open to wired options?

Apologies, OP.

And that's me.

 

[davedotco]

Ignore the religous cult member as avtive speakers will need cables running to them and you specifically said you didn't want that. You have already answered your own question with the Naim mu-so. I suggest you go and listen to one and most good retaillers will let you connect your Spotify account to it for a demo.

The Mu-so works without wires? Fantastic!.........*dash1*

Using active speakers and an AEX works well, though of course the speakers and the AEX need mains power and to be connected together.

It all depends what is or is not acceptable cables wise. A pair of Dali Kubics need only one mains cable and have Bluetooth built in, still needs a connection to the computer though, be it wired or via an AEX.

Where is the wiring a problem? Between computer and speakers, between speakers, where?

You will have to have some, even if only mains power. If you can find a pair at the right price, Dynaudio XEOs would be a good solution, I have seen the old models within budget, but they were ex/dem or used. Control unit sits by the computer and can have a wired connection, Bluetooth adapter and/or an AEX plugged into it's inputs, wireless to speakers which only need mains.

 

[hg]

80 m^2 is a large room (about 30 ft x 30 ft?) that is going to need large speakers. Wireless speakers are usually small. How far away do you listen?

Do you want to stream music that is stored on your phone and tablet or just use use the phone and tablet as a controller?

Unless you want to mess about charging large batteries, wireless speakers are not wireless because they need to be plugged into the mains. If the speakers have a permanent location on or near walls hiding wires is usually a minor task if performed when redecorating. It might also be a minor task without redecorating depending on the wall construction and finish.

 

[Dommer]

You could also have a look at a Sonos solution. Maybe start with two speakers ( these are wireless and only require mains cables) and add more as and when you need for a multi-room setup. They can be controlled via app on any android and iOS device. You can use Spotify and connect to your NAS as well. They are also the easiest wireless speakers to set up. Worth considering I think.

 

[davedotco]

There are so many possibilities that it is difficult to be specific. Personally, given the room size, I would use something like an Arcam airDac feeding a decent size pair of active monitors, depending on budget a pair of Yamaha HS8 (£400) or Adam A7x (£750).

The AirDac can be sited close to the speakers and connects wirelessly to the computer, a Bluetooth receiver can be easily added and cable runs can be minimised.

Way better than any 'lifestyle' type wireless solutions, but a touch industrial in terms of looks. The AVI DM 5 mentioned earlier is a smaller, more elegant solution with the AirDac but I have no idea how it would react in such a large room.

As always, it is the OP's triorities that matter here, the right blend of performance, convienence, styling are at the hub of this.

 

[richardw42]

I think a pair of Sonos speakers. Play 1,3 or 5 might be the answer. Apart from mains leads, no other cables needed.

As well as the ability to access the music on you PC/NAS. It has spotify, internet radio etc etc. And you can also access any music stored on your Android/iOS devices.

You don't actually need the Sonos bridge anymore, but I'd get one as it's relatively cheap (c£30) and adds to the stability of the system.

 

[steve_1979]

Way better than any 'lifestyle' type wireless solutions, but a touch industrial in terms of looks. The AVI DM 5 mentioned earlier is a smaller, more elegant solution with the AirDac but I have no idea how it would react in such a large room.

Everyone who's heard the DM5's has commented on how big they sound and it's true. The sound they produce is massive and has to be heard to be believed that such a big sound can come from two tiny speakers. If you were led into a room blindfolded and listened to them you'd be in for a shock when you took the blindfold off.

My DM5's are in a largish 7m x 5.5m x 4.5m room and they have no problem whatsoever filling that space, even without the subwoofer. I even came close to not buying a subwoofer because I felt that they didn't really need one.

 

[davedotco]

Way better than any 'lifestyle' type wireless solutions, but a touch industrial in terms of looks. The AVI DM 5 mentioned earlier is a smaller, more elegant solution with the AirDac but I have no idea how it would react in such a large room.

Everyone who's heard the DM5's has commented on how big they sound and it's true. The sound they produce is massive and has to be heard to be believed that such a big sound can come from two tiny speakers. If you were led into a room blindfolded and listened to them you'd be in for a shock when you took the blindfold off.

My DM5's are in a largish 7m x 5.5m x 4.5m room and they have no problem whatsoever filling that space, even without the subwoofer. I even came close to not buying a subwoofer because I felt that they didn't really need one.

Thank you steve, I was waiting for that.

I'll set them up, you knock them down.......*blum3*

 

[hg]

There are so many possibilities that it is difficult to be specific. Personally, given the room size, I would use something like an Arcam airDac feeding a decent size pair of active monitors, depending on budget a pair of Yamaha HS8 (£400) or Adam A7x (£750).

These are near field monitors intended for listening at about 1-1.5m away. They will need subwoofers crossed higher than one would really want in order to achieve clean standard SPL levels in a large room. For a room that large the SPL requirements are pointing at typical tower speakers using 2x8" woofers plus subwoofers. But having said that, if the OP is seriously looking at things like the Naim Muso then sound quality in the conventional high fidelity sense is being lightly weighted. And there is nothing wrong with that since we all have different priorities. But it would be nice to know a bit more about what is relatively important and what is not.

 

[davedotco]

There are so many possibilities that it is difficult to be specific. Personally, given the room size, I would use something like an Arcam airDac feeding a decent size pair of active monitors, depending on budget a pair of Yamaha HS8 (£400) or Adam A7x (£750).

These are near field monitors intended for listening at about 1-1.5m away. They will need subwoofers crossed higher than one would really want in order to achieve clean standard SPL levels in a large room. For a room that large the SPL requirements are pointing at typical tower speakers using 2x8" woofers plus subwoofers. But having said that, if the OP is seriously looking at things like the Naim Muso then sound quality in the conventional high fidelity sense is being lightly weighted. And there is nothing wrong with that since we all have different priorities. But it would be nice to know a bit more about what is relatively important and what is not.

It's all about the levels and room filling capabilities. Within budget I can't think of anything that will match the output and the control of those speakers.

I am also mystified as to why you feel that the sub needs to be crossed over at a higher level? The HS8 has bass to below 50hz, at quite substantial levels, the A7x does not go quite so deep but is more controlled and refined.

Also, if you have the time, an explanation of why these speakers are not suited to listening 'in room' at normal distances would be helpful.

 

[JoelSim]

The Nocs NS2 v2 are very good and about £300. They allow multiroom, are wireless, can use bluetooth or airplay and include Spotify Connect. For your room two pairs of these will give great sound.

 

[hg]

It's all about the levels and room filling capabilities. Within budget I can't think of anything that will match the output and the control of those speakers.

I am also mystified as to why you feel that the sub needs to be crossed over at a higher level? The HS8 has bass to below 50hz, at quite substantial levels, the A7x does not go quite so deep but is more controlled and refined.

If we want high fidelity sound at standard listening levels then we need to size the drivers to avoid clipping peaks in the music. This means being capable of reaching about 100-105dB at the listening position to get a standard average listening level or around 80-85dB. This is the listening level in a cinema and well below concert or party levels.

The speakers you cite are near field monitors designed to meet these SPL targets at a distance of around 1m and above about 100Hz or so. If you want deep bass they would require subwoofers even for near field listening.

In a large room like the OPs at, say, 4m. away the speakers need to produce about 12dB more SPL. Near field monitors are not designed to do this and will clip the larger transients. Apart from the deeper bass they are likely to be able to produce the average level and so will sound loud enough but will not sound clean when doing it. It is about high fidelity.

Useful speaker specifications are pretty much non-existent these days apart from the odd company like Neumann. If you look at the maximum SPL plots for the KH 120, KH 310 and KH 420 (click on the speaker and then the measurements on the RHS) one can get a fair idea of the SPL capabilities of a good ported 5", sealed 8" and ported 10" speaker. It also gives an indication where one needs to bring in the subwoofers.

Also, if you have the time, an explanation of why these speakers are not suited to listening 'in room' at normal distances would be helpful.

Not sure I fully understand the question. The speakers cannot play loudly enough not to clip the musical peaks in a large room.

 

[steve_1979]

Thank you steve, I was waiting for that.

I'll set them up, you knock them down.......*blum3*

I'd hate to disappoint you.

 

[steve_1979]

Re: The discussion on high SPL and deep bass.

Lets bare in mind the OP is looking for stylish alternative suggestions to the Naim Muso not a home cinema or disco system.

 

[davedotco]

It's all about the levels and room filling capabilities. Within budget I can't think of anything that will match the output and the control of those speakers.

I am also mystified as to why you feel that the sub needs to be crossed over at a higher level? The HS8 has bass to below 50hz, at quite substantial levels, the A7x does not go quite so deep but is more controlled and refined.

If we want high fidelity sound at standard listening levels then we need to size the drivers to avoid clipping peaks in the music. This means being capable of reaching about 100-105dB at the listening position to get a standard average listening level or around 80-85dB. This is the listening level in a cinema and well below concert or party levels.

The speakers you cite are near field monitors designed to meet these SPL targets at a distance of around 1m and above about 100Hz or so. If you want deep bass they would require subwoofers even for near field listening.

In a large room like the OPs at, say, 4m. away the speakers need to produce about 12dB more SPL. Near field monitors are not designed to do this and will clip the larger transients. Apart from the deeper bass they are likely to be able to produce the average level and so will sound loud enough but will not sound clean when doing it. It is about high fidelity.

Useful speaker specifications are pretty much non-existent these days apart from the odd company like Neumann. If you look at the maximum SPL plots for the KH 120, KH 310 and KH 420 (click on the speaker and then the measurements on the RHS) one can get a fair idea of the SPL capabilities of a good ported 5", sealed 8" and ported 10" speaker. It also gives an indication where one needs to bring in the subwoofers.

Also, if you have the time, an explanation of why these speakers are not suited to listening 'in room' at normal distances would be helpful.

Not sure I fully understand the question. The speakers cannot play loudly enough not to clip the musical peaks in a large room.

Thank you.

It seems that your criticism is that the HS8s do not produce sufficient level or bass output for the room. This is despite having a peak output capability of 110dB at 1 meter and a bass response that extends below 50hz.

I am looking forward to your recommendations of airplay/dac/amplifier/speaker combinations that will produce the level and bandwidth that you think suffient within the OP's budget of £800-1200.

For reference, the AirDac/HS8 setup can be had for around £800, if you shop around.

 

[BigH]

It's all about the levels and room filling capabilities. Within budget I can't think of anything that will match the output and the control of those speakers.

I am also mystified as to why you feel that the sub needs to be crossed over at a higher level? The HS8 has bass to below 50hz, at quite substantial levels, the A7x does not go quite so deep but is more controlled and refined.

If we want high fidelity sound at standard listening levels then we need to size the drivers to avoid clipping peaks in the music. This means being capable of reaching about 100-105dB at the listening position to get a standard average listening level or around 80-85dB. This is the listening level in a cinema and well below concert or party levels.

The speakers you cite are near field monitors designed to meet these SPL targets at a distance of around 1m and above about 100Hz or so. If you want deep bass they would require subwoofers even for near field listening.

In a large room like the OPs at, say, 4m. away the speakers need to produce about 12dB more SPL. Near field monitors are not designed to do this and will clip the larger transients. Apart from the deeper bass they are likely to be able to produce the average level and so will sound loud enough but will not sound clean when doing it. It is about high fidelity.

Useful speaker specifications are pretty much non-existent these days apart from the odd company like Neumann. If you look at the maximum SPL plots for the KH 120, KH 310 and KH 420 (click on the speaker and then the measurements on the RHS) one can get a fair idea of the SPL capabilities of a good ported 5", sealed 8" and ported 10" speaker. It also gives an indication where one needs to bring in the subwoofers.

Also, if you have the time, an explanation of why these speakers are not suited to listening 'in room' at normal distances would be helpful.

Not sure I fully understand the question. The speakers cannot play loudly enough not to clip the musical peaks in a large room.

Who says you have to play at 105 db? More bass who wants all that bass? I find 6 inch speakers to be more than adequite in a fairly large room, certainly I dont want any more bass, if anything at times bass is slighty too much. I have not measured the level but I guess my av. listening is 70-80db. Cinema level all the time no thanks. Note playing music at 85db or above will almost certainly damage your hearing.

 

[hg]

It seems that your criticism is that the HS8s do not produce sufficient level or bass output for the room. This is despite having a peak output capability of 110dB at 1 meter and a bass response that extends below 50hz.

If a person requires high fidelity reproduction at standard listening levels in an 80 m^2 room at a listening distance of about 4m then yes.

I am looking forward to your recommendations of airplay/dac/amplifier/speaker combinations that will produce the level and bandwidth that you think suffient within the OP's budget of £800-1200.

For reference, the AirDac/HS8 setup can be had for around £800, if you shop around.

I haven't made any recommendations because I do not know enough about what is important to the OP and what is not. The Naim soundbar/boombox thing might be a good fit for his requirements if he is attracted by the brand and only wants background music while drinking and chatting.

 

[hg]

Who says you have to play at 105 db? More bass who wants all that bass? I find 6 inch speakers to be more than adequite in a fairly large room, certainly I dont want any more bass, if anything at times bass is slighty too much. I have not measured the level but I guess my av. listening is 70-80db. Cinema level all the time no thanks. Note playing music at 85db or above will almost certainly damage your hearing.

An 80dB average is pretty close to cinema levels. If you had properly sized speakers the peak levels would be in the range of 100dB or so. If you are sitting 4m away that would require an undistorted 112dB at 1m. Your 6" speakers cannot do this and so you will be listening to music with compressed peaks. They may well be large enough to reproduce the average level and so it will sound loud enough but not high fidelity.

85dB average for 8 hours a day every day is generally held to be about the limit although it varies slightly from authority to authority. You can listen louder than this without harm but only for shorter time periods.

The reason people interested in high fidelity listen at 80-85dB average is because this the level the music sounds tonally balanced. If you listen at quieter levels the high and low frequencies are perceived as too quiet because of the nonlinear nature of our hearing with sound level.

Bass quality is a heavily weighted factor when people assess the relative performance of loudspeakers under blind conditions but if the choice is between bad bass or no bass then perhaps...

 

[davedotco]

The thread has magically changed from the original "what can I buy to play a bit music in a rather large room for a budget of £800-1200" into a "what do I need to produce concert level, wideband hi-fi reproduction in a rather large room".

I guess I missed that.......*unknw*

 

[BigH]

The reason people interested in high fidelity listen at 80-85dB average is because this the level the music sounds tonally balanced. If you listen at quieter levels the high and low frequencies are perceived as too quiet because of the nonlinear nature of our hearing with sound level.

Bass quality is a heavily weighted factor when people assess the relative performance of loudspeakers under blind conditions but if the choice is between bad bass or no bass then perhaps...

That maybe the case with some passive systems, certainly the sound does change as you increase the volume but with my speakers the sound does not change much it just gets louder. I listen about 2.5m away, no need for high volumes.

 

[hg]

That maybe the case with some passive systems, certainly the sound does change as you increase the volume but with my speakers the sound does not change much it just gets louder. I listen about 2.5m away, no need for high volumes.

I rather suspect your perception of loudness with level will change in a nonlinear way just like everybody else's. A few decades ago when people tended to have a more reality based interest in home audio there used to be a "loudness" button on many amplifiers which boosted the high and low frequencies in an effort to compensate for the effect when listening at lower levels than standard.

 

[BigH]

That maybe the case with some passive systems, certainly the sound does change as you increase the volume but with my speakers the sound does not change much it just gets louder. I listen about 2.5m away, no need for high volumes.

I rather suspect your perception of loudness with level will change in a nonlinear way just like everybody else's. A few decades ago when people tended to have a more reality based interest in home audio there used to be a "loudness" button on many amplifiers which boosted the high and low frequencies in an effort to compensate for the effect when listening at lower levels than standard.

So all systems are similar?